Wow, do you really think your statement above makes sense?

I don't know where you work as a "techie", but I certainly wouldn't hire you if you demonstrated such convaluted circular thinking similar to the above.

Techie, I'm sorry to say I fear you are in a fog of your own.

God Bless,
Jo

Actually, I think your reasoning is good enough for me. Plus, I get your logic Techie.... I don't agree with the keeping the promise to your wife aspect of this IF.and only IF, you feel that revealing the other information to SH would change things.
As far as your not being in Plan B...your explanation is okay with me.
Resilient... I have not seen Techie state that SH has pushed him to reveal the info... or that SH has said it is necessary in Techies situation. Perhaps I am wrong and it has been expressed elsewhere.... but until Techie lets me know that Sh has told him he needs more info to move forward... I will take him at his word. Sometimes a counselor doesn't need all the dirty little details to make a recommnedation... and perhaps that is what has been stated to Techie.
It is his wife that has done his M a disservice... he is here trying to help his M.

The only crime worse than making a bad promise is keeping it.

-ol' 2long

MEDC,

My post was not to you nor did it require a response from you. But thank you anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It was directed to Techie.

Jo

What you are describing here is a selfish misinterpretation of the word "privacy." You are being secretive, not private.


I've quoted this many times before on MB, though not recently:

"The Difference Between Secret And Private:

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

Secret: I forged my medical degree."



Get the definitions of these 2 very important concepts straight (which are absolute), and I think you'll be better able 2 sort this mess out. And so will SH.

-ol' 2long

I seem to remember earlier in THIS thread... YOU asking a question regarding one of my posts not directed towards you. That was okay with me...afterall this is a discussion board!

thank you

"The only crime worse than making a bad promise is keeping it."

again.. that would be exactly the "logic" that WS's would use in justifying why they dont have to keep their "promise" of their marriage vows.

if you only keep your promises, when the promises seem like a good thing to you... then your promises have no value to them.


"What you are describing here is a selfish misinterpretation of the word "privacy." "

And people accuse ME of being overly picky <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> fine, fine. privacy isnt the right word here. Probably the word I should have used, is "confidentiality". It doesnt change the underlying basis that it would be foolish for me to reveal the specifics of something here, that I am concerned about revealing to Steve.

They don't. Think about it. Infidelity isn't illegal. One hopes that an individual's personal integrity is such that they wouldn't choose 2 grow as an individual via such a harmful path, but the simple fact is that many (most?) people do. So then the hope is that they'll pull their heads out of their nether regions at some point and forsake that choice and recovery will be possible (at least personal, and hopefully marital).

...and WSs make promies 2 their OPs all the time. It's up 2 you 2 decide whether this promise of "confidentiality" that you've made is harmful or helpful 2 your desire for recovery. Usually, the truth = disclosure, is the best policy in all struggles, unless the matter is a private one that would have no influence one way or the other on the marriage. If it's something that your WS might perceive as harmful 2 her current choices, then I submit that it's secrecy you've chosen out of fear of tweaking her gain knob. I've been there, done that. It won't sustain the M, it'll prolong the A. It's a well-known "rule" that, if the BS does something that angers the WS, they're probably doing the right thing for the M.


Well, we have 2 make those determinations on our own, don't we? But not revealing this secret 2 SH doesn't make any sense because, as you've stated, he'll keep it confidential.

Was she an escaped Nazi war criminal or something? Even something like that, though it might not seem directly relevant 2 your recovery efforts, might give SH some useful insight in2 who he's dealing with when coaching you.


Not picky, absolute. It really doesn't matter 2 me one way or another whether you "get it" or not. Just thought it might be of use 2 you. It seems 2 have been...


Correct. It isn't.


No, secrecy is better because it's not as waffley or revisionist. Takes less time 2 type as well. But it might not be comfortable 2 face. Making people "comfy" isn't always helping them. Though they might want 2 be told what they think they want 2 hear, it may not be what they need 2 hear.


It doesn't change the fact that it's secrecy either. I don't understand why you wouldn't give SH the 2ls he needs 2 help you with your M recovery. As for this forum, it's anonymous, so it really doesn't make sense why you're concerned about revealing it here, unless doing so might make your and your WW's identities known.

...I'm starting 2 invest more time in this discussion than I have. If you don't see any further replies from me, that's why. Not that I'm upset or anything.

-ol' 2long

You seem to be equating "legal/illegal" with "right/wrong". To me, the legality of something, does not make it right.
That's all I have to say in reply to your post.

And all I will say in reply 2 yours is that, no, I'm not equating legal with moral issues. I know the difference.

Affairs are permissible, they're just not expedient.

...that is, if the individual's ultimate goal is 2 be happily married, or a "good" person, having an affair prolongs the time it takes 2 get there. ...and we only live so long.

-ol' 2long

***FOR THE RECORD, I KNOW I'M ON IGNORE BY TECHIE, BUT I AM CHOOSING TO POST ANYWAY, BECAUSE I WANT TO...THE POSTER MATTERS TOO!!! AND WHO KNOWS, SOMEONE ELSE *MIGHT* GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT...DUNNO...HINT: SOMEONE NOT ON HIS IGNORE LIST COULD QUOTE ME SO THAT TECHIE *MIGHT* READ WHAT I HAVE TO SAY-DOUBT I WOULD BE HEEDED BY HIM THOUGH-LEAVE MY NAME OFF THE QUOTE SHOULD ANYONE DECIDE TO DO THIS...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />***


So, here's the deal...techie HAS information that he is withholding from SH because he himself knows that such information may, in fact, change Steve's advice to him...techie actually thinks this information is so big that SH would tell him to "give up now"...HUH??? What techie is doing here makes absolutely NO sense at all!!!

First of all, techie has NO way of knowing what SH, a trained PROFESSIONAL would tell him...He is merely speculating, likely at the expense of his marriage...If I went to a doctor KNOWING that I was exhibiting certain symptoms that would allow the doctor to make an accurate diagnosis, but decided not to tell, because I didn't want to actually hear the diagnosis from the doctor's mouth, it wouldn't change the fact that I had those symptoms or the illness associated with them...the only thing that it would change was my getting the proper treatment...and that is just IGNORANT...

There is NO justification for what techie is doing at all...You can be sure that his children will NOT be understanding of him keeping such a secret when his telling it to a PROFESSIONAL, with whom he has a doctor/patient type privelege could impact whether or not they grow up with a broken home...

Seriously techie, why not just take the money you are spending on SH to the local gas station and buy a big fat fistful of lottery tickets...your odds of success would certainly be greater, IMO...I don't get why techie value's himself, his wife and his children so little that he would LIE BY OMISSION to SH...I am truly BAFFLED by this whole situation...The only thing that is CRYSTAL CLEAR here is that techie is a control freak...I'd lay odds that that is one of the biggest problems that his marriage had pre affair...techie, you are shooting yourself in the foot here and taking your whole family down in the process...I'm not even suggesting that you tell this forum techie, rather I am imploring you to tell SH...

Mrs. W

If I am right about this and Techis seems to have confirmed this, SH KNOWS that there are some things that Techie has held back and the SH has been okay with that. Based on the reactions this guy is getting there must some big piece of the puzzle that I am missing because I still have not heard Techie say that SH has any problem with him withholding certain information. IMHO... Techie is going to SH to do his best to fix his M as he sees fit. He is using the tool of coaching to fix things in a way that makes him comfortable... but he is still getting the coaching. Agian, IMHO... techie is being treated like an active WS because he is choosing to do things differently than others here would suggest.
I do not think he should have emailed Mrs. W or others to change their posts. That is clearly wrong. But this guy is a BS and is doing what he feels is best to fix his M. Perhaps he is so wounded from the A that he cannot bring himself to a place where more level heads would have him go.

MEDC - I am assuming you have not read any of his previous threads still?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I have 2 tell y'all. As one who did NOT plan B, but one who is nevertheless in M recovery, if SH had said that 2 me during the session I had with him in 2002, I would have felt blessed! Because, assuming he were 2 make such a recommendation, it would be carefully considered advice from years of experience with infidelity/addiction.

And though I didn't do plan B, and it 2k me 5 years 2 get 2 where we are now (for which I'm thankful), I think it would have been an equally good ending 2 my personal struggle 2 follow such advice back then (assuming he'd have had a good reason 2 give it) and thus blow off the past 4 years of hard knocks.

But either way, I've come out wiser than I was 5 years ago.

-ol' 2long

I am relying on where Techie say he is now.

It is my experience that most professionals demand to know the entire truth about the situation that their client is living in.

Doctors, lawyers, accountants, policemen, and yes even PSYCHOLOGISTS usually, USUALLY, say that they need to know all the facts in order to be effective.

Many will even refuse treatment or services based upon the awareness that they aren’t being told the truth.

Techie, if you promised your W that you were going to never reveal the secret she shared with you then you will have to weigh that promise in one hand against some of the most despicably evil and destructive forces that mankind has to face; adultery.

This is the kind of fight where you decide weather your S is worthy of your personal investment after they have cheated on you. We are not talking about a clean slate here. There’s a big difference.

I know you don’t appreciate much of what I have to say but you will never forget these words….

“If you don’t abandon your current rules set and take the leap of faith by challenging yourself as a man to be the best, most true person that you can be; you will absolutely FAIL at being the H you promised your W that you would be when you were married. And you will FAIL at being the father that we all commit to trying our best to be.”

Though the latter case is not a profession of commitment it is non-the-less as important and in a much bigger way more binding of a promise; and backed up by religious scripture galore.

I have a question for you Techie. Did you tell Dr. Harley that he was going to be treating you without full knowledge of your situation and that you were keeping information from him? Did you specifically say “I can’t tell you everything about my W because there are some things that I have promised not to speak about to another human being about concerning her?” And emphasize the importance of the secret?

Techie, what each of us has been telling you is not much different from the next. We all want to see you succeed because we (I’m feeling the liberty to say this) all hate evil and adultery and want families to succeed.

That’s why we are here. That is what MB is all about.

Nobody has given you bad advice on any of your threads.

The situation that you are in right now is that you are being D’d by your WW. If that were to occur, google up the odds of recovering from a complete D. Considering that we rarely hear about those stories around here I’d be surprised if they were not extremely low.

BTW, I would like to see how far someone gets with identifying you as a person. I’m convinced that these forums are as anonymous as you can get on the web.

You have bigger fish to fry than to worry about that IMO.

I have been following all your posts, techie, and I must say that I can understand why your wife is distancing herself from you and has filed for divorce. From what I have seen, I and most of my gender would reach the same point she has. You are one of the most controlling people about which I have read - and I'm a lawyer so I've seen more than my fare share in my profession, alone. Look inward at what it is YOU are doing to drive your wife away.

Techie,

I haven't followed your other thread but I am gathering that some MBer's have suggested you move to plan B and are upset with you that you haven't and are upset that they take the time to help/advise you and you are not following it. Even therapists guide their patients and ultimately, it is the patient's own choice how to proceed. We all need to respect each other's right to make our own choices.

That being said, this other stuff about e-mailing people is inappropriate as they have the right to also voice their opinions and you need to respect that.

Lastly, I agree with most of the others here about sharing the information with SH. My FWH shared with me some pretty disturbing FOO issues while he was in his A and seeing an IC. He asked that I not share it with others, which I respected, however I did share it with my IC as I was taking my time and hers (IC) in order for her to help me, besides the cost. The IC knows much more than I did or do about such things and I trust that her knowing more about my FWH would ultimately enable her to help me better. Which is all you as a person can control or affect is your own recovery. I did share with my WH at the time that I spoke with IC about it. He wasn't happy about it but I did what I needed to do for me. Let SH know what this is and let him decide how he should view the information as either important or not.

All the best.

No, MEDC, Techie did NOT confirm that SH KNOWS there are some things Techie is w/holding from him.

I asked him: "But, how about asking SH if he thinks he can give you good advice if you are holding something back from him?"

Techie replied: " dont see the point in asking him. We'd have to play silly games about poking around what KIND of information I cant tell him, blah blah blah."

~ Marsh

It must be pretty important info about your wife that you're withholding from SH that you think he'd advise you to "Give up".

I would think something so non-trivial would be essential to disclose to your marriage coach. But again, if you tell him (SH) you lose your control over what you want Steve to tell you, right?