I wasnt neccessarily expecting something positive out of her in reply. Her words previously, had been vaguely open to doing things together, though. I was mostly hoping to eliminate the vagueness. I would have liked most of all, a statement that she was willing to at least examine possibilities in earnest; barring that, an honest statement of, "ok, you're right, i've been stalling you, but I'm not going to try to do any actual work together on things".


But sensing what I wanted, she did her utmost to avoid giving it to me (half-joke)

She did actually admit that she stalled/avoided my questions in some cases. But claims that in others, she was trying to talk about things with me.
'o course, there isnt too much room to talk, when her opinion on things is,

"I don't like, nor believe in, marriage counseling"

"I told you I don't believe trust can be rebuilt.. on either end probably. All the wonderful marraige counselors in the world can say otherwise and it wont necessarily change how I feel."

"I don't trust them, and I don't trust you."

my son (age 5) told me that he wanted to be with mommy one evening because she crys at night without him.
(he sleeps in her bed)

****** of a guilt trip to put on a 5 year old. Sad thing is, it's probably true though. She used to absolutely HATE sleeping alone.
Now she's trying to substitute a 5 year old for a husband.

I tried to explain to him that he doesn't have to worry, because mommy doesn't have to sleep alone; she can choose to come home any time she wants.
Which is a bit of an oversimplification for his benefit... but still basically the truth. It's her choice, and he shouldn't have to compensate her for it.,

Bingo Owl.

I second your opinion.

All carrot and no stick makes Jane a "girls gone wild" kind of gal.

Alright Plank...that's just going to HAVE to go into my signature line! LOL

I dunno... using words like "carrot and stick" in conjunction with "girls gone wild", can just have the wrong connotation... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

She came to pick up our children this morning.
I first laid down a foundation of where I am mentally as far as our marriage. That I don't see her showing any serious effort to even LOOK INTO recovering our marriage.

She surprised me by countering more calmly and rationally than I expected. Although she made a lot of unsubstantiated claims, like "you dont know what I've been doing... I've been looking into various other styles of things. Just yesterday I bookmarked a site that was 'non-plan based'... I can email you the link if you want"

She couldn't remember the name of the site, though.


I asked her if she'd talked to anyone about what is involved about recovery. (it would seem clearly not, becuase she keeps going on about how we cant work because there's no trust between us. Anyone who has gone through recovery says that's the last thing to come back)
She said she'd talked to "married and divorced people". because the divorced people would know whether they had done the right thing or not.
Oh, RIIGHT....
I happen to know she's talking to one divorced-with-children woman..., who is all of the attitude that she divorced because she "outgrew her husband". oh, ooookay, that's a wonderful reason to break up a marriage...

Lots of other typical stuff.


Finally, I told her that I had to prepare for the divorce that she is apparently set upon, and therefore I am no longer willing to accept the lopsided child schedule that we are in, and I want 50/50 time back.
She now has a few days to think things through.
The most likely scenario is that I'll be talking to my lawyers to file a motion on monday. sigh.

i wanted so badly to work things out with her. But now that it seems more obvious she's not going to even try anything with me, I'm starting to feel some detachment beginning.
it's a really sad thing. I'm almost watching from outside myself.
I don't want this to continue.

i feel like I'm losing a part of myself.
in a way i am, and in a way i'm not.
i think it's accepting that I'm losing her.

I cant "make" her want to try.
I cant even encourage her to try, if she spends all her time and energy chasing her latest online interest, and leaving no room/time for me.

blahhh... more friction.

She had asked me previously if she could have our copies of the boys' birth certificates, allegedly to firm up her medical coverage for them.

I couldn't find them previously.
So this morning, she calls me, after I leave the house, to ask if I minded if she went looking for them. I said I wanted to be there when she does. She claimed she "had to have them today" (but somehow, she couldnt have come over last night to get them).

So I blew my nice early morning work schedule to go back , so she could look.
We managed to find 2 out of the 3.

She made some comment about, she only called to be polite, and implying she had a right to come there any time she wanted.
I pointed out, "you dont live here any more. As per [your words]"

She replied, "my drivers license says I do".
wierd.
She seems to have "forgotten" that she filed court documents stating that her residence has been her mother's house, since last june.

it was wierd for me to say "you dont live here any more". I regretted saying it like that, as soon as I said it.
But it's true. She has chosen not to live in our home any more. She may be a part "landlord" at the moment, but that's about it. She has chosen to make her home elsewhere; instead of working to mend and fix our home, she has chosen to emotionally, and physically, abandon it.
I think she chose that long ago.
Every time she comes over, she takes a few more pieces of clothing away.

sad.

i really wanted to work out a new child schedule between just the two of us. But with this junk happening on top of everything else, it's not looking likely she'll cooperate with me on it.

Techie-

And THIS is when you go to a cold, dark, hard-core plan B.

Get things setup QUICKLY so that handing off kids and such requires no interaction between you and your wife...and break off all contact with her completely. That's my thoughts at least.

Sadly, Owl, i dont think i even have a choice in this.

I don't think like i'm QUITE ready for that. I'm pretty durn close at this point. But I like spending time with her. I like our wednesday dinners together.
I miss being with her. a lot.

But the "obvious", "easy" way to make the schedule be balanced as 50/50... is to cut that out, and say, "ok no more wednesday night handoffs... wednesday becomes "my night" with our kids, and I drop the kids off thursday morning at school.
Which will mean no more dinners.

It's incredible, in that she always claims she "puts our children first", but her choice to separate, and divorce, is clearly putting HER wants, ahead of THEIR need for a stable home with both their parents.
In contrast... I've been trying to put "us" first, the way a marriage should be... but I may be forced to separate emotionally from her, in order to preserve my relationship with our children. Which means conciously changing my priorities, and putting them first, over her.
Ironically, this is what SHE always claimed she thought was right: "kids first, marriage/relationship second". Hence why our relationship fell apart from neglect.

I'm having to choose between my wife, and my children. This is tearing me up.

i DONT WANT THINGS TO BE THIS WAY!!!!

"Well, you have major damage to your right leg, and your right arm. you dont have enough blood for maintaining both. pick which one you want us to amputate"

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

PS: why "quickly", owl?

So that it takes the power out of her hands, and gets it into yours. And so that it happens BEFORE you totally lose all of your love for her.

The primary purpose of plan B is to save the love that the BS has left for the WS...it gives the WS no more opportunity to make withdrawls from the love bank. The sooner she's not able to keep hurting you, the sooner those withdrawls will end. Hopefully while you still feel some love for her.

The secondary purpose is to cause her to completely suffer the consequences of her actions. She no longer has you to meet ANY of her needs...emotional or otherwise. She's forced to deal with reality all on her own. This can have the effect on some WS's to get them to 'open their eyes' by putting them into a crisis mode.

And finally, as I'd said at first, it takes all the 'control' of the relationship out of her hand, and back into yours. It allows you to start focusing on YOU, instead of HER. YOU call the shots on the interaction with her...she doesn't. And you allow further contact between the two of you only based on YOUR criteria...not hers.

It normally gives the BS the chance to build themselves up...to start personal recovery, even if the marital recovery isn't moving forward during that time.

Ever notice how she'll start calling you when you haven't called her in a while? How it always seems like she comes to you when you pull away from her? Same idea here.

Make sense?

Umm.. no. i have not noticed that.
I've always had to come to her, i think.
She's been more RECEPTIVE about me coming to her, if I havent been around her much recently. but seems like i've always had to pursue her.

i think she'll keep hurting me, for as long as i keep loving her.


ahaha... she hasnt been living in reality for a looong time. she lives on "Vana'diel". But her mail gets forwarded to Long Beach, california.

I'm thinking this is heading towards the exit. I dont see anything else happening from her side.

my heart is finally starting to tell me, "ok. you've done all you can, and she still doesnt care. It's time to give up now".

I'm another "Erin" to her. The friend that she snubbed, and turned her back on.

ugh. i feel sick.

Techie, if you were hanging onto the edge of a cliff, and you've tried everything you could think of to save yourself...you've called out for help, you've tried to pull yourself up, you've tried to find a spot for your feet, but everything has failed.

However, the entire time there's been a rope hanging next to you, do you continue to ignore it?

Stubborn much?

~ Marsh

So isn't it time to break that chain?


See why it's time to go to plan B NOW, rather than later?


And she's going to STAY there...until something snaps her back to reality. Normally, that's the crisis of losing something/someone. I KNOW this...remember? My wife had an online EA via Everquest...she was addicted to online gaming for a LONG time. I've BEEN there.

The only difference is that your wife moved out...

And even that difference doesn't completely change the dynamics of the situation...IMHO.

When was your last call with SH? I know he's telling you 'plan A'...but has he heard where you're at with how you feel about this now?

sigh. I suppose that was a "disrespectful judgement" on my part.
I should rephrase, and say, that it seems like the only thing that matters to her personal interests, is the game, and relationships built on the game. "Real life", doesnt seem to hold much appeal to her.

She probably prefers identifying with her in-game "avatar", over her real body. She isnt very happy with her real body.
Maybe that's why she's so taken up with "life in the game"

I'd take her real body over a game body any day, though. sigh.

FYI: for what it's worth, she's read all the marriage builders stuff, and I imagine she's thoroughly expecting a plan B from me.
I wouldn't be surprised if she implements her own as a preemptive strike one of these days, even if i dont, so SHE can 'be in control'.