FH,

Thanks for posting. Yes, her faith is the BIGGEST thing I am evaluating before jumping back in. I know that if she doesnt get right with Him, then this will never work. And if she gets right with Him, then there is no reason that this shouldnt work.

So, I continue to point her towards counseling, toward my pastor and toward Scripture. I hope she will continue to seek the truth and to bend her knee.

At the end of the day, I think she had a wrong impression in the past. That in the past reconciliations, she thought she was expected to surrender to me...to bend her knee to me.

I think she has begun to realize that there is only one person that she needs to bend her knee to...and that is Jesus. He has earned that...and demands that. But unlike surrendering to a human, she can always trust that surrendering to Him will not destroy her...but instead, it will save her.

So, thanks for keeping me straight. I continue to keep a step back and just watch as the Lord does His work. Having a front row seat to this is awe inspiring.

Mortarman wrote, on Wed Dec 20,


[color:"red"] *Nudge* [/color]

Thanks Techie for the nudge. I am working on it!! I look forward to this weekend, with no work and Christmas shopping done. Then I will have the time to really sit down and do this!!

I hope your bio will reflect that you are deemed the PLAN B GURU!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Plan B Czar! Come on Mimi...get it right!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

God bless you and your family. May he bring her all the way back, until she is safely home.

SS

Thank you SS!

Just had an interesting note. Last night, I was dropping the kids' Christmas gifts off at her house. For the first time, she invited me inside. As I was leaving, she came up and gave me a hug and laid her head on my chest and just sat there for about a minute. She then said "I'm tired." Not in a way, like "I'm tired, I need sleep." But just an "I'm tired" that says "I'm tired of running."

So, as this goes on, it appears that she may finally have reached her surrender point to God.

Mortarman…

I realize that you have no idea who I am and Although I have a great marriage I read here often for ideas and for the benefit of friends who have fell victim to the evils and selfishness of infidelity. In reading here the last three and a half years I have only posted once before (a link to an article) as I feel because I have not suffered the same injustices and sadness that most here experience I have nothing to offer in the way of advice to them so I read stories and pray that many here gain the peace of mind that I have been blessed with.

Philippians 4:6 & 7 talks about us not being anxious over anything but by prayer and supplication we let our petitions be made known to God. I can’t imagine that in your very dark Plan B you did not continually supplicate God for not only peace of mind but the gift of one day having your family back with some sense of normalcy. By definition the word supplicate means to make a humble and earnest petition; to pray humbly. I know by reading your last few years’ worth of posts that this is something that you have mastered and for that I salute you. The second half of that scripture in Philippians (vs. 7) says that the peace of God that excels all thought will guard your heart and your mental powers by means of the Christ. I know you have been blessed with this peace because of you desire and willingness to forgive.

I am not by nature a judgmental person however I find myself being righteously indignant toward the wandering wives and husbands that use the excuse of me me me to justify the crime of adultery be it emotional or physical. I could never see myself recovering from that kind of betrayal when I starting reading here a few years ago. My wife and I have had endless discussions on the subject and I read everything I could put my hands on about the topic so that I would be the most informed man I knew on the subject. She grew weary of my seeming fascination with the topic even though it was teaching me what not to do in a marriage. She did appreciate however the educational tools provided here to deal with emotional needs. Those questionnaires are fantastic. I have never been victim of infidelity but that is no reason not to fill them out and discuss them in detail. They have only improved an already blessed union.

The book of Hosea (Chapters 1-3) details a story of infidelity almost to sickening to talk about. The prophet Hosea endured a horrible marriage to a woman who not only was unfaithful with numerous men but became pregnant with their children, continued to be unfaithful and chased longingly after these despicable men who no longer wanted her as they knew she was a ******. Despite all of this he purchased her back from slavery and adultery for 15 pieces of silver and some grain. Her real adultery is likened to the adultery of the Nation of Israel in their worship to false Gods. Through all of that God showed the nation mercy and Hosea followed his lead and bought his wife back even though she was no where near worthy or deserving of his mercy. That is how I feel about unfaithful mates; they should recognize their sins and return to their mates if the betrayed mate is willing to have them back. Malachi 2:15 & 16 says that God hates a divorcing although he does provide a way out of marriage for the innocent mate (Matthew 19: 8 & 9). If at all possible God desires the situation to be worked out. Unfortunately the wandering mate is often to selfish and “fogged” out to recognize their sins. This world we live in encourages the “me first” approach to life and that has destroyed the moral fiber of our nation in corrupting the second greatest gift God has provided next to life and that is the marital union. The entertainment world makes a mockery of it and our youth are told that to experiment with sex before marriage is what they ought to do. I am not here to judge others or to preach my beliefs however that attitude has got our society nowhere.

Although I know nothing about her at all except what you have posted here Mrs. Mortarman reminds me of the scripture at Proverbs 18:1. In isolating herself from her husband and her family she sought her own selfish longing. Now she has awoken to the lonely harsh reality that infidelity causes it seems to be pushing her back to her family and most important her husband. Genesis 2:22-24 makes the ultimate of statements when it says “a man will leave his mother and father and stick to his wife, the two will become one flesh”. Both of you now have this opportunity. I admire your willingness to forgive and attempt to forget for the sake of your family and the former (and hopefully future) love of your life. You are a hero and role model to many here in so many ways and for that I am sure they are grateful and appreciative. I am sure you will one day be a spokesman for Steve Harley at one of his conventions but until then continue diligently with your prayer and supplication to the almighty one!

I am including my e-mail address as I have something I would like to send to you…

melloblkmon@yahoo.com

If you choose to send me an address or PO. box that is fine, if not that is ok as well. It is just a book that I think would be helpful in your continued recovery and I wanted to give it to you as a gift. I pray to never to have to walk the roads and fight the battles you have had to, but if I ever did it is good to know that there is a place where help and support can be found. I will continue to read here daily and to pray for the peace of mind that others here constantly strive after. Please keep us posted on the victory that I feel will soon be yours!

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

Agape’

Melloblkmon

Sounds like her knee bending to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

HTW

Mortarman - Merry Christmas!!!!

I do not hang out here much any more. I am working toward moving on.

Sounds like things could turn out cool for you and your family. Very, very cool!

Baby steps!!! (what movie is that from? Does it have Steve Martin?)

I have a custody hearing in February. I look forward to getting through this.

You have been one of my main guides. You deserve a successful recovery, IMHO.

My prayers for you, brother. Baby steps. Don't look a gift horse. Wait till you see the whites of their eyes.

My XW would have to do a lot to prove she was worthy of being my mate again.

Your's has a lot of work ahead of her. I will pray for you both.

With respect- foundareason

mello - I love the story of Hosea. TJ over.

((Mortarman))

Wanted you to know I was thinking about you, and keeping you in my prayers.


I was so uplifted hearing that your ws is yearning to be held safely in your arms, as it should be. I understand what she must be feeling, being weary and wanting to be held and comforted.

You are doing an awesome job. Hang in there.


k.d.'s heartbreak

I will respond to the last few posts this evening...but wanted to post this update to our situation. And what happened this week is why I changed the title of this thread to "She gets it."

Well, we spent the two weeks between sessions with Steve Harley (covering Christmas and New Years) doing mostly little things. Mrs. Mortarman called me multiple times a day. Even though the kids were with me on Christmas Day…she asked me to come over to watch them open presents at her place on the 26th. When I had laser surgery on my eyes on the 30th, she even called several times afterwards, saying she wish she was there to take care of me (I had PRK, which is painful the first day or so). So, a lot of little things.

Last week, she asked if I could take a day or two off this week and spend with her. I couldn’t take off two…but did take off Wednesday…as that also was the day of our next session with Steve. Tuesday…I got off work early, so she asked me to come out and spend the evening also with her and the kids. (My MIL is in Indiana for a few weeks visiting relatives!! Which is helpful!).

That evening, we spent a lot of time talking. Mostly little stuff…catching up on work and what was going on with joint friends. Also about her back injury and her upcoming court case concerning that. But we did get to some serious stuff also (I know…some of it we weren’t supposed to discuss right now).

We discussed the Troll. That she has heard from him maybe a few times over the last year…but has not seen him in over two years. She stated that the last time she had been with anyone but me sexually was in November 2004. She went on to state that there had been two guys since we went to court that she did go out with a few times…but that nothing more than kissing resulted. She asked me about what I had been up to in this area…and I told her that as has been the case all along…I have been with no one intimately accept her since we got married.

We went on to discuss what our homework project was from Steve. In my case, I had to list all the ways I was planning to meet her ENs, stay away from love busters AND how I would make amends for any of the things I had done wrong to Mrs. Mortarman. Pretty straight forward. But Mrs. Mortarman’s homework was simple…she was to list for Steve why Mortarman would want to be with her.

When we started talking about this…I asked her if she had her list done yet. She aid “no.” She told me that “I have no idea why you would still want to be with me.” She looked absolutely perplexed. Now, hold that thought on this folks…because we never got into this stuff the next morning with Steve…and I will tell you why in a second.

Anyway…a lot was said. But I basically told her that I knew why…that I could fill the list. But that it is her that needs to understand what she brings to the table for me. It was at this point, with the kids outside, that Mrs. Mortarman gave me the old, long Mrs. Mortarman kiss that I have not experienced in over 4 years.

She talked more after that…how she wanted to spend a bunch of money getting me new clothes. Even commented on how she thought we might renew our vows in Hawaii. She said that even with the Troll out there somewhere…and even with these two guys she thought about seriously dating…she came to understand that none of them were going to get her what she has been searching for. All the time, I am just nodding and taking it all in.

I stayed awhile longer…and ended up having to stay (Mrs. Mortarman had driven me out to her house because I still could not drive due to the surgery. At the same time, her back started flaming out again. So I spent most of the night just rubbing her back and laying beside her…watching her have a very rough night.

Now, this is where things changed dramatically. And no…there was no SF (okay, Pep??). when she woke up in the morning, she was visibly upset. I thought it was because of her back hurting. So, we got on a conference call with Steve Harley for our appointment and Mrs. Mortarman immediately asked me for a few minutes with Steve alone. I came back 10 minutes later and Steve began asking me questions. Like what my plan is (basically my homework) and what my responsibilities were. He then asked me what was a strange question at the time. He asked “Mortarman…what is your responsibility in regards to Mrs. Mortarman’s demons…her problems?” Well, as we went through it and I tried to grasp what he was asking…we basically came up with the answer that her demons were not my responsibility. That my only responsibility was meeting needs and not love busting.

Well, that question and its answer was a set-up by Steve. As I was answering, I could see Mrs. Mortarman getting visibly agitated and upset. I thought maybe her back was going out again. She took some meds…and then sat down again and asked “Steve…can I just tell him?” My heart dropped! Steve told her okay.

Mrs. Mortarman then turned to me and told me “I had a bad night sleeping last night because I was having nightmares. Nightmares about The Troll meeting someone else.”

I sat motionless next to her for like a minute. With no one talking. Mrs. Mortarman told Steve “I knew it…he is sitting there all tense now and his mouth has gone dry.” Folks…I felt like I was punched in the gut again. Here I was, after all of this…the first night hanging out with her…and she dreams about the Troll?

Well, I said nothing. Steve asked if I was okay. I told him I didn’t know. And then it was at this point that everything changed!

Steve started talking to Mrs. Mortarman. Asked her if she understood what they had discussed earlier. She said “sort of.” Well, for my edification, Steve started talking about it again. He told Mrs. Mortarman (and me): “look, those nightmares about The Troll had nothing to do with The Troll. He has been gone a long time now. Mrs. Mortarman, you asked “why now”…why this is coming up now? The answer is…Mortarman.”

Without going blow-by-blow, I’ll summarize. Steve went into how love is created and how the fact that by me not meeting her needs and her allowing the Troll to meet some needs, that she was following ingrained behaviors in almost every animal. Which is to move towards something that causes good feelings and move away from something that causes bad feelings. What we all know here as the MB principles.

By this time, Mrs. Mortarman is resting her head next to mine and still crying…but listening intently now. Steve told her that by trying to reconcile with Mortarman, she was being taken back to the conflict again. One where Mortarman had not been meeting some needs and someone else did. So, the conflict raged in her overnight. Her emotions were trying to “protect” her. But, Steve said “thank God we have an intellect…where we can think through things and overrule our emotions.” He asked Mrs. Mortarman “who do you think is the person you are going to find the happiness and the type marriage you are looking for with?” She said “Mortarman.”

It was at this point I found out why she was having an anxiety attack. She told Steve “but you don’t understand. I will pay for this. He will stomp around here and get mad.” Steve told her “No he wont.” He wont because he is trying to be attractive to you and that is not attractive.

He asked Mrs. Mortarman if she believed in the principles he has been outlining (meeting ENs, the love bank, etc). She said “I’m not sure.” Steve asked her why she wasn’t sure. Mrs. Mortarman told him “because I haven’t seen it happen.” And shockingly Steve responded “Mrs. Mortarman, you’re wrong.” Mrs. Mortarman was kind of taken aback with that.

Steve explained to her “You have seen it your whole life. Look at this situation last night. It perfectly represents what we are talking about. Mortarman was not meeting needs…you allowed this guy to meet those needs…and strong feelings developed. You migrated towards the good feelings and away from the bad ones. Mrs. Mortarman, it is all human nature. But you have now admitted that those feelings have not been the best thing for you. So, what you need now is a plan, using your mind not your heart…that will allow the two of you to develop the feelings fully again. For awhile, it will almost seem like an arranged marriage. Some things will seem almost forced. But I am telling you that you have seen this work before.”

We finished up with some homework and wanting to counsel again before we head to san Francisco at the end of the month for the MB retreat. I didn’t say much during that whole time. At the end, Steve said he wanted to talk to Mrs. Mortarman again…so I headed out to take my daughter to school in Mrs. Mortarman’s car and then came back. When I came upstairs, she looked almost timid…like expecting me to explode or something. I just laid down next to her and we sat like that for while…not talking. She then took her hand and rubbed my head and asked what I was thinking about what she said. I told her that things had changed. That while it does hurt…I also understand why it happened and I believe what Steve is saying is true. She turned to me and said “Mortarman…it was just a nightmare…it wasn’t real.” I told her I knew. She then fell asleep curled up next to me.

The rest of the day, she kept wanting to talk about the session and what Steve was saying. She told me Steve talked to her after I left and reassured her that things had changed…in both of us. That she had nothing to fear from Mortarman…and that Mrs. Mortarman was now coming to the table wanting to understand and change things. Mrs. Mortarman told me “I know it hurt…but Mortarman…I need to be able to come to you and talk and work through this. Or this will never work.” I agreed. She told me that Steve really made her see what this was all about…and that there is hope. She said that the nightmares were actually “real progress.” And she said, “the funny thing is that I see that.”

Anyway…I have gone long here…but I wanted you to get the flavor of what happened because this was a complete change in the dynamic between us. Before I left Wednesday night…while crying…she told me for the first time in the whole 4 year ordeal…that she was sorry for hurting me.

More than anything folks…more than even the possibility of our marriage making it…I needed that apology. She apologized for all the hurt…including me hurting from her telling me about the nightmares.

So, I do believe this is finally the point where we will be able to head into a true recovery. She “gets it.” She gets the MB stuff and believes in what it will take. She believes that what she wants and needs out of life resides in our marriage. She believes that I have changed and can meet those needs I neglected.

And all I have done for the most part is sit there and listen over the last 5 weeks. And watch. Steve told me that things are different now. For the first time, I really do believe it.

Whew. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Wow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Great news, MM! I hope things continue to look up for you. Your story is a continued source of inspiration to many of us here. I will continue to keep you and yours in my prayers.

Wow! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I'm so happy for all of you.

Couple of questions MM, since I hadn't read your thread lately.

Were you starting to be OK (somewhat at peace) without her?

Did you do a lot of work on yourself after she left this time?

Were you starting to move on emotionally?

How did you treat her and what was your attitude after the separation when you did see her?

I know that you are owning up to what you own, and wanted some of the other left behind BS's to read what you have to say in this department.

I had a lot of compassion for your WW as you probably could tell, her being a military wife during wartime being the biggest stress factor I think, but not the only.

I'm asking because there was something there that made her feel safe in approaching you.

AND

There was a reason she wanted to in the first place.


I'm interested in what those two things were. Of course I know you have kids together, had a strong bond and all the rest that goes with a long term marriage but those are not the only things which brought her back (before it was too late).

MM,

It is a long journey isn't it? But, it seems as if your journey is leading you into a desirable direction. Has Mrs. MM commented on her journey? Does she see it for what it is...a learning experience?

MM it soooo good to see this change of events.

God Bless,

JL

MM,

Okay, now you really have me chomping at the bit for your FULL story. Second request--PRETTY PLEASE--could you post a link to some of your threads or maybe give us a synopsis--PWETTY PWEASE? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like you may have a happy new year indeed!

silentlucidity:

Be careful what you ask for! You just might get it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

MM's story and posts are LONG and NUMEROUS. Probably the best thing 2 do would be 2 search for his username starting about 4 or so years ago. Mostly, if not all, in GQ II, I think.

I didn't comment before: MM, this is pretty neat.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
-ol' 2long