Had to step back for a minute, I went back to earlier post on test results.

Just cannot believe the supoort I am getting here and getting carried away with my thoughts - I just want to say how much I appreciate everyone and their response to my situation - I truly am blessed that I have so many people looking after me - Thank you all.

W was late again tonight - called at 5:00pm said we werent going to make church b/c of work didnt get home til 8:50pm with take out and a few groceries mainly for her work party tomorrow -

Second day without her ring on again - Yesterday left it in her desk b/c she was shipping alot of stuff - Steel factory
But didnt want to ask her about it although I want to so bad.

Although she said I win and that she will be a W in all senses - Do I ask, or suggest she wear it or leave it up to her? She talks w/ me but only if it's about her day and problems associated w/ work -
Tried talking about furnace that was acting up and didnt seem to faze her - Doesnt want to think too far ahead.

But even before she said she would be W and not seek D she was making it sound like we were going to be here in the summer but the only way that would happen is if we are all together b/c is S or D we sell the house b/c neither one can afford it alone.

Rambling again - Thanks so much

Look at the ring as an outward sign of her inward commitment. Let her put it on when she is ready. It will then give you a message that her actions are matching her rhetoric - at some level anyway.

Ask her to hold on to your ring, for the time being, so when you are "both" ready to wear them, it will be ceremonial, and give her cause to pause why you don't want to wear yours right now... just a thought...

SD

PS:

Several people have bumped up a thread called "the carrot and stick of plan a". Read through that thread and it will give you some guidelines on how to become very proficient at doing things that will attract her back to you.

Ok I was getting strong last night and feel weak again.
I just got info from FedEx that my test kit (semen detection) will be delivered today and I am fearing things.

I know I will confront if positive test but feel I will be ruining an already stressed Holiday - W has said she has been depressed and I am lost in my self pity trying to muster up just to get through the days.

I know I love her and would hope we can reconcile but wondering if I confront will it be akin to pushing her into a decision - She has said she isnt sure she wants to be a W,
That she wanted time space and freedom to find who she is/was/wants to be - If it is a MLC I know A's happen but can someone want to throw away so much for what they have only known for a short time - I started becoming aware of things in Oct. but moreso in Nov.

She hasn't actively looked to get S,D or even asked me to leave its rather been kind of static - She slept on the couch for most of Nov but has been back in our bed since early Dec. From what I know hasn't consulted w/ anyone on legal matters and as I said in earlier post told me Sun.
You Win, My family Wins The Church wins that she will be a W in all aspects except giving me her heart.

Against my better judgement we ML Sunday night and she was really not into it at all and of course I was like a teenager and his first time but she actually seemed put off by the whole thing and we used to "compliment" each other well - I always felt she was satisfied - Could it have been she wasn't letting herself get to that point or was it guilt or that she really doesnt care anymore?

Sorry for the rambling its just that I am afraid of this test and what it may prove - I have tried to keep a positive attitude concerning our M b/c I didnt want to fulfill a prophecy with negative thoughts but rather that we would work it out sooner or later

This problem will never be resolved until all the truth comes out, dg. I think that exposure will probably kill this affair, but you still have the problem of them working together. As long as she continues to see him at work, she can never withdraw and your marriage cannot recover.

Sorry you are here, dg. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Melody - Thanks I understand that and in my recent posts I have said whether or not she is fed up w/ the job or the A is coming apart b/c she is still living w/ me and I have made several hang ups to his home, cell #'s and the fact that I found her at his house on Sat.
She has actually started to tell me how she is "burnt out" from work - Whether its work or her sitch I really dont know I do see her being frazzled.

I even told her that the money isnt important if she wanted to quit tomorrow she could and I would stand by her even w/ uncertainty of us, Also told her the other night before she fell asleep that "If and when she is ready to come back that I would not hang things over her head and that no matter what happens that I would always be there for her"
She said "Thanks , That really means alot"
If she came back I would tell her she would have to get a different job but first I guess I need her to say whether she wants to work on this and not in some half a**ed way like saying "You Win" I will be a W in every way except giving you my heart.

That being said I just wish I could see clearer although I know that is alot to ask of them - Whether its an EA,PA both or just a friend and a MLC - As I have said I had caused her to withdraw from R/M on many levels but if there is an A it was her choice and her being a Christian should know that - At first I may have placated her by not bringing things up when speaking with Pastor (MC) or the outside MC we saw only once and she kept coming up with reasons not to go back - Too busy, This or that etc.
Although the more I think about it I should have brought these things up when I had the opportunity now in some ways it may seem like sour grapes b/c of her indifference to work on things.
Sometimes I feel that it's not all about her finding herself but rather either guilt and/or feeling that I will revert to the old me and bring it up forever if she admits and stays.

Maybe her defense mechanism is to say I Give Up so that she doesnt have to change anything or admit anything - To either put her in a badlight or take away from our kids.

One other thing if test comes back positive do I continue plan A for awhile longer or do I move towards plan B and give her an ultimatum such as by such and such date you will ned to let me know if you want to work on M or not.
If so you will have to look for work elsewhere and commit to working with Pastor (MC) and/or outside MC who is pro marriage or we have to at least seperate.

If we seperate I wouldn't want to move and I know she doesnt b/c we owe more on our house than its worth right now and selling would cost us both and since I am a man I am quite certain I would not get custody - So that would also probably throw me into bankruptcy.

I do know that I will expose but not til after Christmas - To her employer, parents and sister, as well as church but I know that the test will be done today and I will not be able to hold results (if positive) til after Christams in fact I would assume I would confront tonight after kids go to bed.

Okay...first off, no ultimatums. Ever. You express your boundaries. You tell her what is acceptable and what isnt. Then, if she doesnt meet those expectations, then you do what you have to. But never tell her "do this, else I will do that!" Got it?

Second, you have not Plan Aed long enough yet. Please read what Plan B is about, and what it is for.

When you get the results (I have used the checkmate stuff...it is good), you dont tell her how you got your info. You just tell her that you now know for certain that she is in an adulterous relationship. You dont have to convince her that she is in one...she knows she is. So, no giving over any intel methods. Got it?

Dont move out. Dont let her take the kids. That is the family home and if she wants to leave it, she leaves alone. You are committed to the family. You stay!!

Make sure you get the church involved. Make sure they follow their commandment by God in Matthew. She needs to be held accountable by Godly men and women!

So, keep Plan Aing. Get your intel (once you have the checkmate stuff, dont stop looking for other intel). Then expose. (Make sure you document everything to do with you, her, the kids...all interactions...all the things you do for the kids, etc).

Then hang on for a bumpy ride for a little while!!

By the way, what state do you live in???

Thanks I live in NY - Rochester and I have documented much of what I have - Made copies of cell phone details before I stupidly told her where I got info and she changed password.

Also have several paycheck stubs which gives at least detail of punches as well as vacation/sick/personal time but they are coworkers.

I have told her I am not leaving and I would contest as long as I can hold out a D - I also told her that if she wanted to leave for herself then fine she could but I would stay w/ the kids b/c as it is anyway she has been working so much she has only seen them maybe at most 2-3 hrs a day before bed - I am with them from 4:00pm til bedtime and have taken time when they were sick to go home even though W has said they could stay by themselves.

I don't believe that they are only 11 and 10 and they need someone there - And even as distant or critical I had been to W - I have rearranged my schedule @work many times to accomadate hers - as well as taking 6 wks off 2 summers ago for appendectomy to save on child care b/c she was in a new job.

Also during school vacations when baby sitter wasnt avail and to save money.

She is there when they really need her but they have been looking to me more since this b/c I have changed my approach w/ them and the fact that they were happy that I was saved and now a part of their church.

As far as checkmate on some level I hope its negative, but positive test would give me more hope to lead her back to conflict state as Dr. Harley calls it b/c she would finally have to face things instead of blaming me.

Dont get me wrong it is my hope that we can progress but feel that she is so withdrawn that she doesnt see a way out.

If test comes back positive I will relay in confidence to Pastor of my findings so that he can have a true picture.
Right now I am such a new "Christian" that it may seem to him on some level that I am not giving of myself enough b/c of my past but she tells him one thing then does another and says she should have never went to him.

dg, another thing you would want to add your exposure list would be a confrontation of the OM. Meet with him and explain you who you are and ask what his intentions are with your wife. Most men who screw around with married are ball-less wonders who will run like a girl when confronted. I doubt he wants the trouble of an irate H and may dump your W like a hot potato. Meeting him will possibly scare him and it will also give him a chance to put a face to your name and see firsthand who he is hurting.

Can I ask why your inlaws have not confronted your W? That defeats the purpose of exposure when folks are keeping it secret.

Melody,
My MIL said she wasn't going to confront right now b/c of holidays and the fact that she has already distanced herself in many ways from them (mainly MIL) - MIL and SIL are strictly religious and feel M is sacred and that I have seen my errors and started to change and found my way back to the Lord.

MIL did say Sat. when I told her of my W being at his house that she had been planning to "tell" my W that they were going to spend a day together, Didn't say what they would discuss.

If test is positive I will be exposing to all and tell them that I have proof - But don't want W to know about checkmate as that is my last straw - Already burned my bridge w/ cell phone - So only have checkmate and my own PI work - Cant affored a real one and they cannot get in to jobsite.
I also took a pic of her car in his driveway before I left although no timestamp. She doesn't know about that.

I had made several hang up calls to cell phone and home phone but have not confronted him as I dont want to put myself in a position where it could turn ugly - Feel I have made good changes right now and last thing would be to screw that up by physical confrontation if that occurred.

Although when I went to the house on Sat and found W's car there - She came out to talk but he didn't - Gave her some line that I had better not start anyting - Which at the time I figured it would be best to show my changes and not get into a total jealous confrontation but rather turn the other cheek - Don't know if I will change my mind if test come back positive.Only about confronting I will not be induced to violence that could only make me look worse.


Left one stupid message on home phone when the only time I touched a drink in 5 weeks and left a message saying - Stay away and hung up

dg, she needs to tell your W that she knows and use her influence to persuade her to stop her affair. That is the POINT of exposure. Affairs THRIVE on secrecy and exposure is intended to STOP THE SECRECY. Y'all can't help hurt the affair if you are all continuing to keep the secret. Exposure means EXPOSED.



Well, you wouldn't want to have a physical confrontation. If you feel you would not control yourself, I would suggest taking a friend with you. But he does need to be confronted like MAN TO MAN. He is messing with your W and this needs to be addressed.


But this is not an occasion to turn the other cheek and allow him to carry on with your wife unimpeded. Your marriage is under assault. You should confront evil, rather than allow it to thrive. The OM should not have the impression that he is free to exploit your marriage and so far he has been given that impression.

Calling him with hangups and leaving him these little messages give him the WRONG impression, dg. It tells him you don't have it in you to face him. That is not the message you want to give someone who is assualting your family. It would be much more manly to simply face him directly and calmly ask him what his intentions are with your wife. He will respect that alot more than hang ups.

Thanks for your comments I appreciate them, I will have to do this I have so wanted to go face to face w/ him but have been afraid of the way I was and I don't have too many people I have trusted w/ the info I have.

My mother and W have not seen eye to eye and my brother is more or less a cut your losses kind of guy. So our convos are mainly about protecting myself and that gets hard so I try not to talk about this too much and when I do I say that I do not want/need their protection and know what I want.

The only somewhat support system I have is a coworker who had been trying to allay my fears. b/c of things I had said before about my behavior at times in our M. But even he has come around lately to say that if it walks like a duck....

I do know what I have to do and I will speak to my MIL again to see if she is going to bring this up and when I see our Pastor again I am going to tell him that I had suspected something even before I was saved but out of ignorance or a sense of protecting my W b/c of my past issues that I have more info than just a feeling.

Also of not confronting him I thought if I did maybe on some level I would have pushed W into decision regarding R/M and he is single (twice divorced) supoosedly and 3 kids.
So I think maybe on some level she is getting somethings from him but questioning if it's worth throwing everything she has/ had or wants.

The other thing stopping me has been that she seems so adamant about "finding herself" not sure she wants to remain a W - But I guess after her revelation on Sun. that
everyone Wins - She will stay but not give her heart and not seek D - I guess I dont have anything to lose that I haven't already and that is the time wasted so far.

What is your source for this information? Is it you WW? Have you independently verified it?

Find out...you know where the house is...get on a GIS web site and find out who owns it. There are web-based public record searches that you can run - they cost a bit but can be worth it for the information you uncover.

Put a keylogger on the computer...find out what her web, email, and IM activities are. You may even recover the cell phone password.

And definitely confront him face-to-face. Take a friend with you if you're not sure you can control yourself. This calling-and-hanging up business will give him the impression that you're too chickensh!t to do anything about it, and will further embolden him.

Yes I know - That is probably why I am feeling so stupid is allowing myself to feel that way instead of taking action.
Also I don't have my license right now so if I drive and get caught I will end up in jail and that is not where I need to be for kids and family.

Get my license back 12/27/06 and will be a pain in the butt after that believe me.

W on some level has shown signs that I am onto her I really feel if she was looking to find herself and was as committed as she said she was about looking to the church for it's ok for D she would have, I think on some level she sees changes and fears throwing everything away especially for the fact that the kids like where they are, Also have pets that W loves and that I have been so adamant that if we S or D that we should sell the house even if we lose money or go bankrupt - Money is not as important as family and M.

I did do a search and found out alot - He owns the house but no D record - W says he has been D'ed twice - How much is true I don't know - I do know he has at least 1 or 2 kids but W says 3.

Anyway looking forward to the test coming today went home at lunch and it wasnt there - Also tried a stupid move this AM tried to get W's cell phone password thru D's phone - They share acct but dont know if they sent text to D's or W's phone - So I could have opened another can of worms - Oh well she hasn't left yet - What do I have to lose right?

One other thing I was trying to keep in mind that W may be having MLC and her stating she needed freedom - But Sun. night after she said I Win that she would be a W in all ways she brought Sex - I was excited it has been a long time but on some level I felt if it was MLC that it could hurt, Pretended to be asleep when she came to bed but she woke me up - I asked several X if she was alright with it expressed my concern but my instinct took over - Next morning she was sitting up when my alarm goes off and staring into space.

I started to think maybe she ws feeling used but the more I thought about all of it - I am wondering if she was feeling guilty "for cheating on him" W is funny with her emotions and felt that she was staying away from me b/c of this relationship?

Also to remain as calm as I can, I feel that when I think or write I know what to say and effectively but how would any of you address OP - I dont want to resort to cussing swearing, but rather be intelligent about it.

Cool, calm and collected, along with a very trusted friend, the bigger the better, face to face, mano e mano, tell him you love your W, and you are in the process of doing everything you can to save your marriage.

This is somewhat contrary to Harley's principal's due to the violence that could erupt, but in my case the OM was also divorced, and I had no one to expose HIM to, so I contacted him on several occasions and told him my intentions, as described above.

He ceased calling her, but would still receive her calls, which infuriated me. But there was little I could do but try to appeal to any sense of decency the man might have, and continued to ask him to refuse to accept my WW's calls. He never would comply, but between Plan A, and the lessening frequency of calls and no physical meetings, my W finally quit calling him.

WW's don't let go very easily, so withdrawal can be like living with a rattlesnake, so it's important through all this to remain calm and commit NO love busters.

If the OM in your case has any sense of decency, a face to face may help your cause. However, there's alway a chance there's a macho side of him that will drive him to return to contacting his W.

Everything seems to have a double edged sword, and the BS catches the brunt of the misery, no doubt about it.

Best wishes,
SD

Anyone familiar with the check mate test for semen?
The sample from Sat. didnt turn purple at all one from earler in the week took a little over 20 secs but it says if it doesnt turn almost immediately or within 15 secs consider it a negative.

In a way I am glad that it wasnt positive but now I woder what I should do, Do I believe on any level that she may be telling the truth about just being friends or am I being ignorant?

I have one test left so I guess I can wait until I suspect things again but now how do I confront anything?

MIL and FIL are aware of the phone log I kept until I got stupid and gave her testimony to where I found it and now she has changed passowrds. Along that line like I said earlier - I tried getting the password from D's phone but D left it home today and don't know if it was sent to W's phone - D's phone although I can guess she must have found out that someone tried to get password so now I did another LB right?

Told Pastor of my suspicions Sun night but he was somewhat dismissive just saying her heart seems hardened and that she needs time.

Any checking I did this week - When W was late coming home or I suspected anything is nil right now b/c when I called desk phone she was there, Although I know that really doesn't mean alot b/c they can still talk at work and on the phone before she comes home, No way of knowing about phone calls whether from work phone or cell phone now.

What do I do now - Continue Plan A with my tail between my legs? She has already stated being friends - No more but I still feel something is not right.

Trust your gut. The phone log alone was enough. There's an EA going on. Stay in Plan A with your head held high and your shoulders back. You are not the one screwing up here, it is your W.

Hang in there...this is a roller coaster ride like no other.

Best wishes,
SD