Good Morning,
Hope everyone had a nice Christmas! Xmas eve was a little rough, W went to m familys and was kida quiet, We got home and talked about R/M my bringing it up again. W keeps saying that they were just friends and that he had suggested to her that she she work on ur M - I said why all the deceit she said my previous ways and my lack f trust in her - I said again if it was just friendship then introduce me and let me ask - She said he's not even talking w/ her.

I told her also who I exposed to and that I also went to her parents before Tgiving to apologize for not taking better care of my W.

W also mentined now she was thinking about going to new church b/c she feels embarrassed - Said the scriptures she was reading pertained to false judgements and accusations.

She also said she thought we were making progress and her letting me closer to her was genuine except I would continue to show my distrust. Mentioned in some way that she never should have said she didnt think she wanted to be married and now all this has snowballed.

Said she was orinally attracted to me b/c I was a "renegade" but how can I go back to something like that when you have 2 kids, job, house etc - said she was open tp talking with MC and possibly to discuss her things with a C.

I said that I really wanted a pro M MC and maybe we could work on things simultaneously - Her going by herself and me going and/or both going at times.

Christmas day started out rough but got better, Wattched kids open their presents but we barely spoke at first.

I didnt open my gift or stocking and after all was done - Went and laid back down - Woke up by kids and they asked me to open my gifts - I did W got me a shirt and giftcard.
My stocking had all the usual stuff candy, shaving cream etc.

W was wearing her sweats that I bought her (always buy her pair) and socks I put in her stocking. She was in bathroom getting ready and asked her if we could put everything aside for day - She agreed and we hugged - She really seemed to hug me back.

Got through my Moms and had chances to touch her tell her she smelled nice - She was also more involved in convos.

Went to her parents and before we walked in asked her for a hug - Wasnt as good as the first.

We were sncking on food and talking w/ IL's waiting for SIL and family - I was down stair watching tv w/ FIL and W came down at first sat in seperate chair but then got up and came back into the room - I patted the seat next to me and she sat down real close to me said she was wiped out only slept an hour - said too much on her mind.

we were called to table to pray and eat buffet style but W wasnt moving and I wasnt going to either.

Finally went upstairs, Ate - opened gifts and we were outside smoking - I was able to kiss her head and rub her shoulders - Asked her if she was going to come down and keep me warm watching Cowboys (family is from Texas)
She said she wanted to watch movie but wasnt sure she could get tv from all the kids - Came down w/ blanket shortly aftr and sat w/ me - Head on my chest and closer than she had been in a while - Fell asleep in my arms for almost 2 hrs - We started watching movie when W woke up but she didnt leave - Got up to get a plate of shrimp and brought enough for both of us ane she sat next to me again watching movie.

SIL was getting ready to leave

SIL left and we sat talking w/ her parents about alot of things - W wants piano but the only way she can plan on having one is to stay in the house b/c neither one of us can afford house on our own even if she got child support.

Talked about W's stress at her job and giving up some duties @ work - W was talking about things she wanted to do around house - Brought up how to get piano in house etc.

Went down to finish watching movie and W sat on loveseat but not as close as she had until S wanted to sit with us and she moved closer.

Drive home was quiet, and I was wondering whether to kiss her or not decided against it and when we got in she got one of her movies out of the box set I bought her and we started watching it til she fell asleep.

Ijoked w/ her this morning that she didnt make it that long - She smiled and said that was her perogative - She hasnt had much time off from work in the last few years between changing jobs and workload so she is enjoying her time to herself.

"Came down w/ blanket shortly aftr and sat w/ me - Head on my chest and closer than she had been in a while - Fell asleep in my arms for almost 2 hrs - We started watching movie when W woke up but she didnt leave - Got up to get a plate of shrimp and brought enough for both of us ane she sat next to me again watching movie."

Sounds like a very nice times to me. Keep up the good work!

W and I spent the morning looking at Pianos and we are going to look at one this afternoon, I maybe trying to make too much out of all this - But have to believe we are moving forward and that she does not have any plans of us splitting - She has made mention many times of feeling trapped like she doesnt know where or what she should be doing - MLC?

I dont want to fall in to trap but really wondering if she could be telling truth about friendship? I mean I had trusted her for such a long time and the fact that she has been as adamant as she has - But keep coming back to the amount of phone calls - I wish I could see into all this.

Feel maybe on some level she is learning to believe we can be happy together but for every thing I see I still feel like there is some distance between us.

How should I approach things do I try to spend as much time w/ her as I can, give her a little space - Let her come to me or just keep trying to reach her without overly talking about R/M?

Hope you won't buy that piano just yet. Your wife will need to quit her job, however this turns out.

I really think that will be a stumbling block, She makes really good money - And she seems adamant about not quitting - I dont know what to do I dont want to push but feel like she is coming around somewhat - She really seems to be acting like I should have trusted her and she did say on Xmas eve that she should have never said what she said about Not wanting to be married that she feels on some level that she was making "a mountain of everything"
I dont feel I am in a postion to place demands

dg, the ONLY thing which will block you from entering recovery is her continuing to have contact with the OM. With the volume of phone calls between them, you are dealing with an EA. Period.

She would not have held this relationship as secret if it were all above board. She would have introduced you to her "friend" if it hadn't been more than that. Have you purchased a copy of "Not Just Friends" and left it lying around where she is tempted to pick it up and read it. You should read it first, by the way.

The OM was definately filling some of your W's EN's, or she would not be so drawn to him, nor would the relationship have become so intense, with all the contact between them. It was only going to be some time between when the EA turned PA, because that's exactly how they develop.

You are going to have to get your boundaries set, and one of those will have to be No Contact/change of job for your W. Do not let her scare you or convince you that it was "just friends". Friends like that destroy marriages.

It is good that she is allowing some close contact, but if she's allowed, by you, she will continue living with the "best" of both her worlds, her husband and her EA partner. So long as she has thoughts of this man in her head, your marriage will not fully recover.

Best wishes,
SD

SD is right. Recovery is impossible with continued contact.

Hello
This ride is getting weird, Now W wants to go back to before she said she didnt think she wanted to be married anymore - Im inclined to go along but I am going to insist I meet him - Even though she says she hasn't spoke to him in almost a week and a half.
What do I say do - Should I go along with this and keep my eyes open and see if we get back to a good place - Do I demand anything.
I am thinking of talking w/ her Mom - I told her if we are going back to where we were than I am going to need her to be more open with herself and I am not going to be passive about things like I have - Obviously she hasnt left so I do have some leverage here right?

Is she reading here? She needs to quit her job.

Shes not reading here and she isnt admitting to anyone that knows - Keeps saying its just a friend - How do I get past this?
I have tried everything - Copmassion, Bringing it up with tact, Showing shock -

W wants to just go back to early Oct before she said anything says she wants to see IC for some issues she has - Although I told her if we go back to early Oct that I feel I need some of my emotional needs met that arent right now or have been met for awhile but she still seems uncomfortable - I really need affection, unlabored communication and SF - I have been trying to meet hers respect, admiration and conversation.

We spent most of the day toether - Looking for and at pianos,sheet music - Getting D's guinea pig and then she remebered she had a casio keyboard - She asked me to go to Wal Mart @9:30pm to look for amp - We had dinner and she played for awhile while I sat w/ her - Before we fell alseep she said Thank You for all I did with her yesterday but she still has a tough time letting me close - I kow what I feel but how can I get through to her without LB'ing?

I mean this has to be taking a toll on her right? She knows her parents know, The church knows, my family knows what I told but she isnt saying anything other than friends and that she also hasn't spoke to him in over a week since I went to his house - She actually seemed indifferent when I asked why he hasn't talked to her - She said she didnt care that he hasn't talked to her.

I also mentioned to her that I cannot keep going back and forth - First time was when she came back to our bed after me telling her I couldnt take the silence and why didnt she just file for D - Next day she was sleeping in our bed and conversing.

Next was a few weeks ago when she said You win, parents win, church wins but after a few days she became indifferent again.

This time she said lets just go back to eraly Oct before this - I told her at one point yesterday thats fine but I cant be a yoyo anymore and that I cannot be so passive with my dealings with her - My giver is getting to its end and I am afraid my taker will show up - But she has not made any effort to leave here, nor has she made any effort to contact IC on her own

Yoou know a few other things - She has been either w/ me and or kids almost exclusively since Fri. night ony 2 - 3hrs without one of us around - Sun when she was finishing shopping and grocery shopping was the most time she was alone and I even drove past his house - He was home and she wasnt there - Even drove through apt. complex near his house as well as parking lots near his house looking for her car.

He does have 3 kids as well - Do you think on some level that with me going to his house and the fact that she is not doing one thing about leaving has made him think twice about his involvement and maybe he has ended it and that she is in "withdrawal" -

I wish I could get more out of this - I have been trying to tell her as well that we need to be more involved with finances and not like we have been her pay some bills me pay others - I have the joint checking acct and my own savings acct - She has own checking acct and savings acct

She keeps talking about lack of friends in her life - I mentioned I never really tried to stop her from friends that she needed to cultivate those - Said I dont have many friends either - I choose my friends carefully and only let a very few in to my inner most self -

She mentioned she bases things on making people happy and satisfied and feels she sets herself up for hurt, I have really been showing her that she can trust me - I am not going to hurt her and that we will probably have many disagreements in our life but that I will not go back to the critical, sullen, demeaning person I was - I also told her concerning exposure of "whatever" this is was - That I was truly committed to her no matter what anyone else thinks of feels - This is about us and no one else.

She probably is in withdrawal right now, but she may remain in a perpetual state of withdrawal as long as she still sees the OM at work. If you are at a loss for what to do, I suggest giving Steve Harley a call and getting a more focuses plan on how to deal with this situation.

I think she is not going anywhere as far as a divorce is concerned, so you need to put your taker on hold. These things sometimes take 6 months to 2 years to recover from. Don't try to make things right overnight. Your marriage didn't get to this point overnight, and it won't recover that quickly either. You are doing a good job, just stick with the program, and try and get her out of that job. You are getting good advice here, and just calm down and stick with the plan.

Until she completely withdraws from the OM, she is living in a fog, and most of what you are hearing is "fog babble". One of the key decisions a BS must make is not to hang on every word she utters and every move she makes, because it's NOT your wife saying and doing these things. It is a Wayward Spouse, an alien, who's thinking is not rational.

Put your faith in her actions, not in her words. Continue to take the time to do things together. You will know when she's most of the way through withdrawal, as you will see some "life" return to those dead, shark-like eyes.

As Jim said, you MUST leave your Taker on the shelf for quite some time, until she is drawn to you. Plan A is the roadmap on how to live your life to draw her back. Your Giver must be in overdrive all this time.

I didn't say it was easy, mind you, I just said it was necessary.

Have you read "surviving an affair" yet?

Best wishes,
SD

Shattered - Yes I am reading Surviving and one thing is W found it - Sometime over the weekend and when we had our talk on Xmas eve she brought it up.
I wish my IL's would bring this up with W so they can convey their thoughts!

You know the taker in me is only really about the part of me that has started to let my anger and frustration try to get the better of me - I am working hard to keep it in check.

The thing I want to try to impress w/o going overboard is the fact that Xmas eve and yesterday she had said we sould just go back to Oct before she said she didnt think she wanted to be married - My take was ok but then that means we get everything back - Affection,Intimacy, Friendship and not just me trying to appease her at every turn and her to really stop calling me David instead of honey all the time.

She did call me David when things were better but she always called me Honey, Also all the little things she would do for me - She would make coffee or ask if I wanted anything but now I feel like a leper smetimes - Not that I want a servant.

I wish I could just figure out if this"friendship" is really over or just hidden even more. Although the hours they both work are so different and this place is so busy that in many ways I dont think it was much of a PA - Lots of phone convos and more EA.

One thing about this though that sticks out - Was when I went there on that Sat. - We went to the reservation for cheap cigarettes after and W bought some for him - The cigs were still in her car Mon. night and this is when she said they stopped talking - She said she left them on his car on Tues.

I am thinking at some point I am going to still confront him b/c if there is still something going on then it will get back to me or I will be able to tell if she withdraws again?

I think the sooner you confront him, the sooner the A will begin a downward spiral towards extinction. Just do it with love, class and cool, sober control!

SD

Well W wants to skip church tonight, I didnt get my license back today (bummer) - Since she brought up the idea of going back to early Oct. I figured I do have a right to some expectaions w/o DJs, AO,s etc.

I have asked her that we need to be totally honest with each other, Told her of some of my important EN's.

I asked her of hers the other night, and am really trying to meet those although I was aware of most of them previously.

Since she has been adamant that this was just a friend I have tried to drag as much info out as I could to see what level this was, I especially asked why after one fri in early Nov after us discussing our R/M and seeing a MC why she called him at 12:30am - No answer - Also asked why she talked w/ him so much - She said he did most of the talking about EXW.

I am not dumb but do feel that she is in small ways recommitting but not as much as I need - I did tell her last week that we could move past everything - Dont know if she is trying to trust me but my changes have been here since late Oct and they have not really varied.

How can you get someone to finally say what really was happening? It is the most frustrating part - She is adamant about keeping job, How can I "demand" she find another one when she wont admit to what I know was at least getting to an EA if not already was.

Proving this is going to be difficult but have a plan that I am going to try for next cell bill - I have her acct # and I believe I can change password - Although that may be an LB or do I ask her to show me call details for next bill?

I have to get to my MIL to persuade her to talk to W - On some level I am not sure if all the time spent Xmas day and her saying lets go back to early Oct as a carrot to keep me at bay - She knows I am not going anywhere after all this and I do want to believe that EA is mostly over with b/c why would he continue anything if he is single and she has not made any attempt to move out, seek S or D.

If I was a single guy I wouldn't wait for fence sitter or cake eater I would be PO,ed and gone.

Asked W why it feels like roommates right now - We sleep in the same bed and she will let me hug and kiss her but it doesnt feel the same - When she showers she hardly will dress around me

Well we skipped church, Kids had a sleep over - W and I had pizza and watched a couple of movies.

During 1st movie MIL called - She spoke w/ the pastor tonight and he told MIL that I confided in him.

MIL and I talked b/c W didnt want to answer why we werent in church, Told MIL about MB and all the help people have given me - MIL asked about W's plans for tomorrow as I finally told her that I exposed that MIL, FIL and Pastor knew as well as my family - My family really couldnt care less whether we work this out or not - They are more concerned w/ me and the fact that I have put all my effort in to saving my M.

Plan Aing goes only as well as the effort I give - W says for every step forward we take 2 steps back when I bring up R/M

You know its like MelodyLane said I feel like she is "scaring me into silence" everytime I push a little she gives - Like when I told her to file for D b/c I couldnt take her not talking - Next dday she was talking and sleeping in our bed.

When we talked at IL's on my Bday - You win, the church wins my parents win will be a W but you wont get my heart.
Few days later and she is acting strange again.

Yesterday lets go back to Oct. - Me ok but then I try too hard - W "Dont talk too much", "You expect too much"
I asked her is she staying b/c she wants to or feels like she has to? She said it's whats right - I told her I loved and cared for her but if she feels she cant/wont then dont I deserve to be loved and not stay just b/c its right?

Dont get me wrong I do love her she says she feels unlovable b/c she is unwilling to let those feelings in for fear of being hurt - me says either withdrawal or EA still going on and she is afraid to face herself or truth.

MIL seemed flabbergasted that W would be unwilling to leave job - I told MIL about a phone convo W had w/ OM after one of our talks in early Nov that lasted until 12:20am and @ 12:30Am when W went to get food she called OM - Also told MIL that W made outgoing phone calls almost daily to OM and those calls alone were for over 90 mins - Couldnt track incoming call #'s.

Also W changed her password on family pc - OM's first name but W says it's no coincidence - Yeah right
Now shes embarrassed going to church - Told MIL that all people on this site told me I should tell W I exposed and why - Told her I exposed Sat before XMAS - W mentioned how hard it was going to church XMAS eve.

MIL asked about our snuggling on Christmas day at their house - At first I thought it was a good step but start to think maybe it on some level was a cover up - W actually brought that up tonight saying for her it was a step forward.

MIL doesnt want me to confront OM but I feel I am going to have to - Yes being a politician and not adversarial, I think she thinks it will be old me showing up.

W feels I should be happy with small steps she controls with me saying nothing and being happy with what she gives me - I dont know if its my taker trying to fix things or the fact that I an emotionally starved and need more than she can give right now.

When W was looking for ring she thought she lost came acroos my copy of surviving an affair under my nightstand - She really wants me to beleive that its nothing more than friends.

W is home again for tomorrow but she has to work on Fri early @ 5:00am - OM supoosedly starts @ 4:00am - Different depts and all day felt like she might have spoken w/ him or expecting to, She carried her cell around w/ her all day but I guess I smothered her by trying to be around her all day - She even took it in the shower with her.

She's taking her cell phone with her into the shower? Just from reading what you have been writing about your WW, it sounds like it is certainly an emotional affair and most likely a physical affair. It does not sound like she has really established no contact. I can't remember, has a NC letter been sent that you both approved? She sounds like she is fence sitting and she also sounds like she does not want to tell you everything about the affair because she has not decided if she wants to give him up. Exposure as others have told you is the best thing for your M right now. You need to take the drama out of this A. Re-read everything on your thread related to exposure and make sure that you have exposed this A in every way that you have been told to expose, including: OM, family, work, etc. Your wife also needs to know that you have exposed it to these people. After all, that is the reason for exposure, that she knows that she has been exposed.

Why would anyone take their cell phone into the shower if they had nothing to hide?

I'm sorry to say these things to you as I can tell that you are in pain and I don't want to make you feel worse. But I do think that it is definitely an EA and most likely at some point in the relationship it was a PA. Your wife is fence sitting, not certain if she wants to give the A up.
Lake