No, your W didn't make your taker come out.

YOU chose to give yourself permission to let him out b/c of how you felt inside.



Translation: She doesn't trust your changes to be permanent.



And you expect her to, why???

She's a fogged out WW. Of course she not going to blame the A for any problems in the M.

You need to separate your beliefs from hers.

Just b/c she's believing screwy things right now, doesn't mean you need to believe them. Nor, does it mean you need to change her beliefs.

They are hers.

You have yours.

Keep them separate.



I know you are disappointed.

But, you cannot force her to read something she doesn't want to.

Of course she'd rather be free than work on the M, she's a WW. Her thinking is screwed up.

Please accept this.

It's going to take TIME.

I'm sorry, but I haven't read this whole thread is she still in an A?

Has NC been established?

Plan A is not about EDUCATING your WW.

It's about making positive changes in you, while breaking up the A.



This is a huge DJ.

Why do you choose to believe you've messed EVERYTHING up?

No one does a perfect Plan A.

It's not the end of the world b/c you didn't control yourself the way you wanted to.

Today is a NEW day.

You get a clean slate to start over.



Translation: blah blah blah

Please stop taking what she says seriously.

She's a WW.

She is temporarily insane.

Ignore what she says.

Watch what she does.



Ouch! Another giant DJ.

First from her lips to you, and then from your ears to your brain.

Why tear down your essence this way?

Why not chose to believe that you behaved in an unkind way last night, rather than believe that you're entire person is mean?


Yes, but this is HER stuff, not yours.

You have NO control over what she believes or what she does.

Stay where your power is...YOU.



Ok, I'll have to go back and see what you think is so bad that you need to find a new church or need to stop talking to ILs.

Today is a NEW day.


Why do you expect honesty from her right now?

Why are you choosing to argue w/ her?



You need to understand that you are trying to control what you cannot.

You cannot control what she thinks, believes, or does.

You are frustrated b/c you keep trying to.

Stay w/ your stuff.

Leave hers w/ her.

~ Marsh

ok, dg, what is going on here? Why do you feel you screwed up by talking to the in-laws and the pastor? Whyever would you need to change churches? You need to calm down and stick to Plan A here. I just don't understand what you are doing right now.

LOL Mel, you are so dang concise and to the point!!!

Can you rub some of that off on me???

~ Marsh

Girl, you do pretty darn good yourself!

dg,

Sit up and take notes! You have Marsh and ML now They are some of the best. Jim too (sorry Jim)

Marsh will translate for you and ML will tell you the way it is. Trust me

I too feel like ML, what is going on here? Have you read all about Plan A and B?

dg,

I think the situation isn't getting much better because YOU haven't made the necessary changes that YOU need to make to save the marriage. Enough about your WW, you are doing a good job at killing her A, but YOU haven't truly addressed the reason for the state of your marriage - YOUR LOVE BUSTING BEHAVIOR! Why would she come back to you when you can't even go a day or two without blowing up at her? If you want to save your marriage, you need to focus on some IC for yourself as well as a lot of reading to get you to a point where you are a "safe" place for your WW to come home to. Remember, plan A has a CARROT and a STICK. You are doing the stick, but you need to remember the CARROT as well.

y'all I suspect that he is getting upset because his W is going ballistic over his interference with her affair. She is furious and he is interpreting this as he is doing something WRONG. He then responds with LOVEBUSTERS which make the situation WORSE.

I think he needs to a) CALM DOWN, b) get the GOODS on his wife's affair via tape recorder in her car and c) EXPOSE at work/in-laws, etc.

And he also needs to just shut up about it all when speaking to her and stop the lovebusters, stop the marriage talk.

That's what I've been telling him all along. He just needs a couple of MB 2x4s to get this through to him. I know it is hard, but the better you do Plan A, the quicker the A will end.

I do totally understand that Plan A is about me, But I find it hard to detach even after reading so many threads and so many sites.
I feel like she really is trying to push me and my buttons so that I will make the first move - She really knows how to get at me - Just the same I guess as I had w/ her.

Now I guess I have let her take all the power and feel useless - I know I should change that - Its so hard when you feel guilty about things - I mean she isnt a saint but her parents both told me how for so long she wished I would have changed and now that I want to I am letting her get to me - I believe its a power trip on her part -

I feel if I could have started Plan A before I got too far into this that I would have been more successful but after all my R/M talks before starting Plan A - I feel it gave her an upper hand and she is using it

It's more about accepting what you have power over.

You can't control your WW.

So quit trying to.

Doesn't mean you have to like or agree w/ her beliefs or choices.

You just have to accept that you cannot change another human being.



You might feel she's trying to push your buttons, but that doesn't mean she is.

It just feels that way to you.

But is it?

Maybe she's just sharing what she thinks w/ you.

...Trying to connect w/ you some how.

Or maybe she's just a loonie WW whose mind is lost in the fog.

You can choose what ever perception you want to.

Your choice.



Are you trying to get to her b/c you want to manipulate her into doing what you want?



I know this is what you believe, but is it REALLY true?

Does she have ALL the power?

Or does she only have power over her stuff?

You feel powerless b/c you don't yet REALIZE the power you DO have, b/c you're too busy trying to control her stuff.

You feel powerless over her stuff, b/c you ARE powerless over her stuff.

But you have a great deal of power over YOU.



Stop letting her choices stop you from making the changes you want to.

Why are you choosing to give away your power?



You are both trying to manipulate each other.

Please stay in your stuff.

And let your WW stay in hers.



Today is a NEW day.

You get a clean slate.

Forget about what you've done wrong, it's in the past now.

Move forward.

Don't let the past prevent you from making good choices today.

~ Marsh

The goal is not to DETACH. Detachment is what has brought this problem on in the first place. Detachment only works in addiction scenarios and Plan B. You ain't in either one.


STOP REACTING. This is exactly what she is doing. She is yakking the same yap, yap, yap nonsense that EVERY WS in an AFFAIR says. She is trying to SCARE you into stopping your interference in her affair.

And here is another thing that is going on here SO LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY because it is critical for you to understand this:

When you lovebust her and explode you are HANDING HER AMMUNITION to justify her affair. Let me explain. In order to carry on an affair, the most cruel act a spouse can commit, she must DEMONIZE YOU. You are mean and evil and this is how she justifies the affair. When you ACT mean and evil, you rationalize this sick thinking and hand her AMMUNITION to use against you.

On the other hand, when she does not have anything to demonize you WITH, it causes her to look at herself. It CONFUSES her and causes her to rethink your marriage.

So, when you explode and carry on, you undermine your cause.

This DOES NOT MEAN that you don't calmly and carefully detroy her affair via exposure, snooping, etc. You should quietly and calmly and STRATEGICALLY gather intelligence and then STRATEGICALLY and INTELLIGENTLY use this intel to expose her affair in the most effective, potent way.

You have NOT done this. You have instead spread around some half assed gossip based only on suspicion which she has easily dismissed. You have only TOLD SECRETS to your exposure targets, completely defeating the purpose of exposure.


You have successfully allowed her to manipulate you and allowed her to take control of a situation that could easily be under your control if you would stop allowing your emotions to drive the boat. Your emotions are ruining your ability to help yourself, dg.


Of course she is using it, you have surrendered. But that cna change.

And can you please help me understand what you mean by R/M talks? What is this EXACTLY and what is her EXACT response? Can you give me a DIALOGUE?

p.s. So your order of the day is this, dg:

a) CALM DOWN

b) stop listening to her FOG TALK

c) go to Radio Shack and buy a digital voice activated recorder to put in her car

oops, and I almost forgot: NO LOVEBUSTERS!!

When you feel like love busting, come here first.

Post what happened here and wait for feed back.

Force yourself NOT to act on your anger or fears.

Come here, and tell us what you're angry about or are afraid of.

Use us to help you get control of your emotions.

~ Marsh

The R/M talks are mostly me talkng, Saying I understand what I did to push you away - I dont want to be that person.

Im sorry if you only heard the critical things but I have said many positives - Why do you feel you want your freedom you wanted to be married just recently and your parents told me how you wished I would wake up.

Freedom to her is not answering to anyone, wants friends but she hasnt been able to cultivate long term friendships b/c when they start to get too close she closes off.
I ask about freedom but she will still have kids at least 50% time - She says well I would want you to do exactly as you are now.
I rearranged my schedule for our M, kids and financial health and if she wants out as much as I love my kids I cannot see giving the same benefit to her when she hasnt been able to call b/c of being so absorbed in job

She says things have been phony for a long time, I asked about Aug. anniversary card - Not just the card but her handwritten note.

How come the big shake up around the time the phone calls took off - No coincedence, W said in the past she was afraid of me and my reactions so she didnt say she wanted out - But got the nerve in Oct.

I had asked her many times in the last few years to tell me if she ever wasnt happy or thought she wanted out - Had a friend whoose W left him after 25 yrs or so of M and took up with her C - said I didnt want to be that couple.

She heard you already.


That's just revisionist history to justify what she is doing now. Pay no attention to it. When you two recover, she'll feel bad about all the things she said.

ok, dg, if she wants her "freedom" just tell her no one is stopping her from leaving. If she wants a divorce, you are sure sorry, but you won't help her bust up your family. You won't discuss divorce, only reconciliation.

I still don't understand why you feel that relationship talks are a LOVEBUSTER and what the problem IS. Which lovebuster is it:

Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty

And you didn't answer my question. What is wrong with exposing the affair to the in-laws and the pastor? How was this a "screwup?

What EXACTLY does she want the freedom to do?

I dont know if lovebuster would be the right word but certainly the way I have gone about it - Most of the time calm except for the fact that I get choked up and must look needy and helpless - So I guess it isnt very becoming especially when you have been a "tough" guy so to speak.

She had said one thing recently that stuck in my head - She said she was attracted to me b/c I was a "renegade" - Well how can you stay a renegade when you have children, house etc.

The exposure thing is difficult b/c she focuses so much on that - The distrust, the fact that everyone has taken my side, if she leaves me she will be excommunicated, she has lost almost all her faith and only uses it self servingly.
The other thing is and I know its a stretch - but if she is telling the truth although I dont believe it - Then she will hate me b/c I will have smeared her - Pastor said to her in front of me that he trusted what she says but that the impression is there - For her to put herself in my shoes.

She says - Well I would trust him and what he told me - I said to her last night why does she treat me as I am stupid just come clean - Hope you two have a happy life

As far as the freedom that is what I have been trying to figure out - Only thing she says is she doesnt want to have to answer to an H - I asked her if she thought having freedom would give her more time to herself or actually take away time b/c what 2 used to do - Only 1 would be doing it - Although like I said - She would still want me to be there everyday after school like I am now until whenever she came home from work between 6:30 - 7:30pm and I would assume as a father I would get the weekends - Well like I said where do I have a life then?
I have given up overtime for many years during the workweek to satisfy her job demands - She has had 3 jobs in 5 yrs none of which she left voluntarily.

I love my kids very much but....... Even when I was doing alot of my IB - I was still there until she came home from work and she would hardly ever call to say she was late - Which I felt was disrespectful - We were just supposed to wait and act as if all was ok - Then she would say thing about me having a couple of friends over on Fri from 7:00 - 10:00pm or so and either having a cookout in the summer or maybe going out w/ the guys on Sat for a few hours.