DG, I don't understand what you mean half the time, so I need you to be MORE CLEAR in your posts. What does it MEAN when you say "The exposure thing is difficult b/c she focuses so much on that"

What makes this difficult EXACTLY? Because she didn't like? If that is it, then let me assure you SHE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE IT!

Ok, so she does not like the relationship talk because you are NEEDY? Is that it?


Why would she come clean? SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO COME CLEAN!! Affairees are not going to bust themselves. And if she is not in an affair, then you have just done nothing but INSULT HER.

So..STOP asking her to come clean! STOP IT! It only serves to give her all the power.

INSTEAD....take matters into your own hands and place a GPS and voice activated recorder on her car. Find out YOURSELF if she is truly having an affair. STOP ASKING HER!

Also anytime there was something to do w/ friends I would encourage her to go out - But she brought up once where I showed up at a club where she was dancing w/ a neighbor of ours and thought it was a surprise - She seemed to enjoy my company b/c I never danced w/ her before and thought I was joining in someting that she liked for once.
The issue w/ that didnt come out then but has now was the fact I was drinking and driving so I can understand that.

She was going w/ neighbor for dance lessons 2 summers ago but got disillusoned w/ neighbor moreso than anything - This woman neighbor is so self absorbed.

Sounds like she wants the "freedom" to act like a single person at yours and your children's expense. Tell her you aren't interested in accommodating that. NO THANK YOU. You are a married couple and will only work on the marriage. Acting single will only cause resentment on your part. If she wants to LIVE a single life, she is free to do that as a SINGLE WOMAN, not a married woman.

Encourage COUPLES activities, not single activities. You are a COUPLE. Hanging out in bars alone is just an invitation to an affair.

I guess on some levels I am feeling bad for exposing but everytime I listen to myself and the one real friend besides coming here I have listens to me and says what you all are saying.
He has had some expierience in this sitch b/c he said 20 yrs ago he cheated and justified his actions - He said W still brought it up when they drove past someplace over the weekend.

I feel bad b/c I love her and that even though she hurt our M w/ this I see the pain in her - I feel if she could just let it out that all the other issues would be able to be worked on - And until NC is established which she says wont happen b/c she gave her superiors her word that she wouldnt quit then we are living in "groundhog day". Besides I am glad she values her job more than our M.

I have said I will not file, I just get so consumed w/ my thoughts and feelings and even when I post I guess my impatience gets the better of me.
Just as I had read in the book we were reading - We are a society where tv shows are settled in an hour (instant gratification) and I guess that is another trait that is tough to overcome.

It is hard to get a life when W doesnt ever tell you when she will be home, Call etc and I cant just leave kids to do something and they also want to play w/ friends so I feel I am stuck on her schedule -

We lost the babysitter we used for summer and school vacations - So now alot of times I ave taken the time off to watch them - And she really bothers me that she has said she was thinking of letting a 12y/o and 10 y/o home alone all summer - Yeah right nothing will happen - And all the work we have done to keep them out of trouble will have been wasted and I should know - My parents started leaving us alone when I was 14 and brother 11 and our lives were perfect - Led to IB and drinking, hanging out w/ wrong kids and that was in the 70's and early 80's.

I am really starting to think she is off her rocker, And she was the saner of us 2 for so long - Seems like her priorities are screwy - Like I said even when I would drink w/ the guys on the weekend I never did some of the things she is thinking.

FEELINGS ARE NOT TRUTH, and you need to put your feelings aside here and ask yourself why do you feel bad for doing something that is right? That makes no sense, dg. You should feel bad for doing something WRONG, not something right. Just because your W is mad at you does not mean you should feel bad. SHE IS SUPPOSED TO FEEL BAD WHEN YOU INTERFERE IN HER AFFAIR!


This is why you must gather evidence and EXPOSE at her workplace. If she doesn't leave the job, you don't have a chance.

Your priorities:
a) CALM DOWN

b) stop listening to her FOG TALK

c) go to Radio Shack and buy a digital voice activated recorder to put in her car

d) put a GPS on her car

Hi All,
Just wanted to say Thank you for all your help and hope you dont feel taken advantage of but W and I decided to seperate.
We are getting a legal seperation as soon as possible and actually I am more at peace now - I doubt we will recover even w/ S - More of a stepping stone to uncontested D

I know the kids will be hurt and stunned but I am actually comfortable w/ it and I am really not looking at it as Plan B - We have both taken so much from each other over the years and I started thinking that it is unrecoverable.

W is so far gone emotionally and its not just the M that caused this although it hasnt helped on any level.

Sorry to hear that. What happened now?

What made you change your tune? A lot of times when the BS gives up on the M, that is when the WS finally gives up the A and comes back to the M. What would you do if that happened?

You still need to fight for your children and protect your finances. I'm sorry to hear that you are giving up, but I know how hard it is to continue on. I would have gotten divorced if my WW did not finally break it off with OM. However, I don't have any children, so I don't even know what I would do in that situation.

Everything, She will never trust me and the kids are starting to see everything and I thought my love would conquer but - My bank is empty I dont feel like it matters anymore and if I am changing for me then I need to get away.

W has shunned everbody since exposure except in family gatherings and even if it is over her adamant attitude of working there just gets to me - Lies lies lies everywhere and I brought alot of issues in our M but her lies are killing me - I overlooked that part of her for so long but now I am angry and she will have to face herself.

I know its hard for the kids but I will be there for them but she is going to have to realize that there are others in life besides wanting freedom - Whatever that is and if she wants to sulk, wish she was dead and make co workers happy - Rather than her children, parents and God not even thinking of me.

But I will be a better person b/c of all I have learned and her refusal to help herself is unnerving - She is the one who said she needed to work on her before M - But does nothing.

Besides I thought there was something inside of her that was her but all I see is hate and the more I am w/ her the more hate and disgust.

She always hated when I sulked but Man she is pathetic and when I showed her the online form and reality hit her I saw all the color rush out of her and instead of feeling sorry or sympathetic for her I felt relief - She is getting what she has been asking for and we will see how her freedom helps her.

Sorry so negative but as I said the Bank is nearly empty and if there is any chance it will be only when she realizes what she is asking for and doing.

Hang in there. You are still very early in this. I will keep you in my prayers.

Still sleeping in the same bed, And as I said I am more at peace today. W usually falls asleep pretty quickly but last night was up just laying there.

MIL called as we missed church last night, I am switching churches and we are telling W of every convo we have - I taleked w/ MIL first and then W - W said she sounded mad.

W wants to try and keep house but even for the kids sake I cannot let that happen b/c she has to understand consequences of her actions.

Also even through all this she is still the mother of my children and with some of my issues from the past I allowed physical custody but it will still be joint and I will be in their life daily as I have. Besides I am sure if you asked the kids they would want to be w/ W - Until such a time they can make up their own mind.

Funny thing - When I said we have to make this happen soon she said well we dont have to have a binding agreement I will sign anything that says I will not get you for abandonment and you can leave, I said I cannot trust that and it has to be legal for both of our sakes.

The phone #'s for the Agape' couseling sits in the same place it has since Mon so nothing there, I asked how soon she will either see somebody or go to the website when the documents for MSA are and she could fill one out and we can compromise but I really was fair, I dont want much and the child support I would pay is fair.

The marital home has to be sold though, b/c as I said I cannot allow her to not feel the after effects of her unwillingness to even take the kids into account of wanting out.

She grudgingly read the book Pastor asked us to read and in the 2nd chpater it talks of how to apply the principles/theory and it was clear to me by what she said was the "her will to be free is greater than her will to work on M"

Besides not giving her the marital house will force other decisions as well - We have 2 cats and a dog and she is attached to them but I am making this as difficult as it needs to be - Hopefully waking her up.

I know I didnt Plan A too well and for too long but I feel she needs reality to bite her in the butt and to stop justifying her behavior by blaming me the biggest cause of her "funk"

I still hope she sees the light but I am not holding my breath - And by staying and not forcing anything I am enabling her to stay withdrawn, Our kids need 2 strong parents and right now I think we would be stronger if a break between us gives each time to reflect and heal.

"W wants to try and keep house but even for the kids sake I cannot let that happen b/c she has to understand consequences of her actions."

If you are going to divorce, the kid's needs must come first. The above sounds bitter and punishing.

It really isnt meant to be bitter, W has had it good financially and I wont allow her to continue R w/ OM in marital house - A few years ago recieved an inheritance from my grandfather and put over 35,000 into the house.

W has kept seperate income and only had to pay for groceries, water, trash and newspaper - Also B/S for kids but that was only 110.00/wk - I was paying for all family bills - Paid her car and ins as well as repair bills alot of the time.

I would let her keep house if we could work on some repayment for money put in, I am/was willng to do anything and everything to save M but - I let her get to me and exposure drove her further into her feeling she needs to get away from me.

MIL is upset but agrees we should probably seperate and her feelings towards her D are one of concern but frustration.

If I could even see a glimmer of hope I would hang on but instead it gets darker and darker - She needs to realize what she is really doing and this isnt a joke.

We made a life and sure have had up/downs but cannot expect to be given a free ride to come and go, w/o equal contribution - I originally said that since she wasn't sure what she wanted to do we should split everything down the middle until she decided - She got angry and I feel like she is the one who says she wants out.

This job she has now that has added to our situation pays her like 5 or 6 k less than I and she is fiscally irresponsible - That is why I paid the important things.

She probably wouldn't even be able to qualify for mortgage on her own, And when we bought house originally she had some credit iissues that I was unaware of, When we refinanced again credit issues - My good credit has kept us in decent shape.

Also I tookout 401k loans to contribute to some major purchases as well as most of the outside work, laundry, taking care of kids after school as well as when they were sick - She would just go to work - She seems to want to make others happy at her own expense and then says wants freedom - I dont understand what freedom she will gain other than getting away from me.

Now if I wasn't willing to work on M and make necessary changes in myself then I could see it - I am willing and as I said she says things but doesnt do anyting for herself and the more we stay the more we hurt it is getting so unhealthy for both.

We both need help and I have reached out to help myself although the emotional cost to many involved is getting to be a high price.

Repeat - You are too early in this to give up. Your kids need ONE STRONG PARENT right now, and that would be YOU.

Believer,
I know - I have just spent more than an hour on the phone w/ my MIL - We have talked about so many things and everything is out in the open - MIL said to me that they knew about W's lying nd half truths for many years and they failed her by not calling her on those things.

She also came down hard on me as far as what we are doing and have done to our children, Itold her the S is a tough love approach and that all the people here on this site have told me its wrong but - W needs help and I feel if I can push her to that place then it may need to be done.

MIL - told me that years ago W went to Agape' counseling but after a few sessions left and ran off to Texas, As soon as people get to close she runs - She told me the other night that she is running from me and I believe on some level it's b/c I am close to her more than anyone has been and shes afraid.

I do know the right thing is to stay but she will never get the help she needs if something drastic doesnt happen.

She has turned away from parents, church, myself - Anyone that is close to her and she is surrounding herself w/ people who do not know her - I am sure when they get closer she will run from them too.

I know its early but I also have learned that every situation is different here - I havent helped as much as I could but typical Plan A doesnt seem to be right - There is/was at least an EA but the dynamics of this are deeper than the A

Are you going to let her continue to run, or are you going to direct her back to you and your children?

I'm sorry, but I don't see you as a liscenced psychologist capable of knowing how to best treat your WW. It sounds to me like you are starting to get a little foggy thinking. Can't you take the heat?

I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I think you are copping out, and I don't want you to make the mistake of giving up on your M when it is what you really want and can actually be saved. I truly think that your situation can easily be saved if you just stuck to MB principles and stuck through the pain for the next year.

Oh well, I guess I will wish you the best. You have done more than most BSs would, but I know that you could have done more. Good luck.

Jim,
I guess tough love comes right back to me, I am reassessing our situation and seeing that I need to do more.
MIL also said about years ago that W had said then to her parents that she wished she was dead.

I guess in some way I saw her last night that she maybe has been testing me, When we talked of legal S - She said she would let me leave and write something saying she wouldnt get me for abandonment which after all I have read and talked w/ MIL - Maybe that is the sign I should hold onto b/c if she doesnt want something legally and isnt ready to ruin things financially maybe she is starting to wake up.

But the carrying out of trying to kill everyone close to her has to stop at some point - MIL gave her a little bit of tough love last night too, Told W it isnt about our R/M anymore it's about our kids - And what they will do when they get older. W was staring into space again last night until after midnight - Like I sais usually as soon as she lays down she can be out but after our talk and MIL's talk W really seemed to be thinking - But I cant tell b/c of all the pushing away.


I havent exactly stuck to the program b/c I at first only looked at it as infidelity but now I am seeing the other layers.

Affairs are like addictions, and you can't deal with the issues that led to the addiction until it is over.

You don't get IC and then go to AA when you are done. You go to AA, straighten that out, and then are emotionally strong enough to face up to the other issues.