Yes I see that also, But cannot break the addiction when someone refuses to see the problem.

MIL also gave me the same talk (tough love) that it isnt just about us and our R/M - The kids are seeing things and they should be the # 1 priority and if she is going to be like this that I have to lead and show.

Like I said also MIL said to me that over the years she has only heard one side and the more I disclose and own up to the more she sees that it wasn't just me and my behavior.

Like I said maybe on some level between her seeing that in some ways I may be nearing the end of my rope and MIL's talks that she will start to feel like she has to do something.

I wont push it hard but now she knows it's out there and that sooner or later the rollercoaster will have to come into the station, Also with our proximity of salaries the child support probably isnt what she thought she would get which cant make her feel too comfortable.

Along w/ the fact that when I showed her the leagal document she said we didnt need to go that far right now and I said well if you want a D then we could go that route by giving grounds either way. She didnt bite on that either.

Mentioned to her that losing the house would probably make recovery hard, So maybe shedding some light on a situation b/c on many levels she hasn't thought about anything and not even looking into IC or MC b/c she may not want to come clean w/ everything - I have accepted my share, to my family, her family, Pastor, and the C we saw in early Nov. where she only said that she wanted time and space w/o questions from me.

Just wondering? Why do I feel so positive when I talk w/ MIL and post here when I am at work, But as soon as I walk in the door everything feels like a mess.

Maybe thats part of my problem not being able to execute Plan A properly.

Wish I could carry all the good feelings home w/ me!
Anyway I am not going to bring up the seperation and see if she does.

You know I really should have stopped all the LB's long ago. Should have owned my feelings instead of trying to make her see them - Oh well just wanted to post again.

It's not easy. I was crying walking between building at the plant today. I miss my W holding me. I want things to be fixed quickly, but I know that they take time. I just want you to know that you aren't alone in the way you feel. Just because I may hold it in a little better doesn't mean I don't go through the same emotions as you. Just keep the faith, and ask God to get you through this.

Hey Jim,
Thanks again you are an inspiration I wish I had the strength you show - Thanks for the 2x4's also.
I talked a little with W tonight about S - She says she isnt sure about anything - To me thats good.
I didnt really talk about our R as the only level - Merely said that it took 13 yrs to get here and I was trying to work on R/M.

If she needs to work on her than I should be supportive as that is what spouses do. Told her of convo w/ MIL and the fact that I am disclosing a lot of things good bad and indifferent.

Told her how MIL said that when she was in C early before our M that she ran to Texas after a few sessions - Asked if she was running from me or everything - No answer.

Didnt tell her about IL's problem w/ W's lying and half truths as I didnt want to use any LB's but said IL's have seen where they failed her as well as I.

I dont think there is much more I can do about A - Ive exposed everywhere except work and I am not sure how far that would go at this point but figure if I dont run away and tell her that I am being honest w/ MIL and she honest w/ me that we can bring her to a place of comfort.

Said I really didnt want S thoought that was what she wanted and if it would make her happy then I would and her telling me on Sunday that she wished she was dead scared me.
Although we will have to address OM and lying at some point as I did tell her that I was being brutally honest w/ MIL and IL's do love her and care for her and they arent just taking my side. Ive told my MIL everything except details of our "intimate life"

Also that it was the only time I felt I knew the outcome but that it wasnt as important as her feeling good about her and the kids.

Told her of how our kids heard our "discussion" on Tues. night and the fall out - My 10 yr old S came home from school and told me Dad I hope you find a good church and gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek - What a boy and a young man.

My kids are awesome and I hope we can recover b/c I know they deserve better than all this.

Although I did say to W that if she wanted S or D that I could not allow her to remain in the house we built and whatever the outcome we should sell.

Hopefully I will talk w/ MIL again tomorrow - We are douing good - W said she didnt even talk to anyone legally nor did she go on the site to fill out her own MSA so I feel that she is torn and if I can do what I need w/o LB's and calm talk maybe or should I say we can make it.

Hey Jim - I know how you feel of just wanting to be held and I guess thats the part that hurts us the most - They are close in proximity but far away emotionally - The thing that kills me is not hearing from her all day especially since I leave before she wakes.

I hope for both of us that we get back what we want and again thanks for the MB 2x4's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> tough love is the best when you need it the most

So how is your drinking doing?

Not too bad - But still need work and it will be day by day.
I was only a weekend drinker but that isnt the issue it has caused me problems and I will have to monitor myself.

MIL has been a big help - I talk to her more than W or my own mother right now - Tough but caring love and on some level I feel that is why W is having a hard time even though she wont admit anything,

Having her family show so much care has got to be hard on her - And the fact that even through everything I am stll here - Said I wanted S but again said I saw doubt in her along w/ convos w/ MIL keeps her in a place where she may be torn.

Wish I had the money to hire a PI - But it has got to be hard and if I work on getting a life since I have license she will have to be more accountable as a parent.

Are you going to AA?

Yes - I have but its still a day to day thing, Tues night was major LB's w/ argument and such but right now I said I wasnt going anywhere but she doesnt seem to want to help herself in anyway - We are living under the same roof, sleep in the same bed (but she is so close to the edge Im surprised she doesnt fall out)- I understand that after Tues. we may be back quite a ways.

I said goodbye this morning and I know she was awake but no response, After telling her of my convo w/ MIL last night and that I wasn't going to seek anything - I walked away and went downstairs - She sat there for a few minutes, showered and was in bed - If I dont initiate convo I will get nothing

I cannot prove anything right now if anything is going on she is generally at work but I dont call, She doesnt call me - She wont talk with her mother she is so quiet.

Refuses to seek help for herself, Says what MIL said about her running to Texas after Agape' C was the C's suggestion but I think its another lie. When I spoke w/ her last night I was calm didnt try to act like a C just someone concerned for her - Stayed away from lying issue as that could be percieved as DJ.

How do we involve ourselves when they dont care or seem to want our involvment?

Should I continue doing things as I have - I was thinking of saying to her since we are not acting like a married couple I need 100.00/wk from you b/c I dont have much money left after paying bills (would help me get a life), I will still do laundry but not hers, I am still there for the kids but she does not let us know when she is coming home.

When she gave up supervisor position she said hours would decrease but they really havent. And I get up for work @ 5:15am so I can get home for the kids by 3:45pm and when she strolls in between 6:30 and 7:00pm its awful late for me to get a life. And she starts @ 8:00am only works 10min or so from house.

She wont let me meet any emotional needs, I just get so lost as to what to do?

I have another question, Since W denies everything and will hardly speak to anyone w/ her concerns - Besides what I believe to be at least an EA. But she says she feels she wants her freedom, doesnt like who she is, where is she going, depression, wishes she was dead etc.

I had a thought I was wondering if something like you do for drug addicts and have an intervention - Is this something anyone has tried or is it too risky to further alienate her?

I view "exposure" as the equivalent to such an intervention. I am not sure that there is any research on the efficacy of such a dramatic intervention as the one you are asking about.

Stick to the basics listed on this website.

How are you doing with finding activities to take up your time to help you be a better you for yourself, your wife and your children?
Lake

Yes, we do interventions all the time here, we call them EXPOSURE as lake suggested. AFFAIRS alienate spouses, dg. Removing the source of the addiction removes the alienation.

Its really hard b/c even after exposure nothing has changed and she doesnt/hasnt done anything except for herself.

She works from 8:00am - 6:00 or 7:00pm and the kids and I have been left home at her mercy - I make sure their homeworks done, laundry and then we wait til she gets home and no meals are planned. W is supposed to provide groceries w/ her salary but more often than not we eat out or eat cheap. MIL just said on the phone that I should be more proactive in this area and I agree but she really is killing my love bank and I have a hard time focusing.

When I am busy w/ kids and housework its ok but when there is down time - Kids are playing etc then I let all this stuff bottle up and wonder where she is, what shes doing.

As far as me doing things how can I do more things when I am watching kids and not knowing what time she is going to come home.

I leave before she does and we have no contact all day unless of an emergency or I call her - But even when I do I get the brush off - When she is home we have very little conversation. Granted all my LB's and R/M talks havent helped but dont know how to just keep going while she withdraws.

dg,

No offense, but do you know how to make conversation? This was key in trying to win my WW back. When I first found out every talk would be about R/M. After a while she didn't talk to me. Then I though what did OM do that I didn't. I had heard some of their conversations. They talked about the stupidest crap. Mind numbing stuff like K-Fed or Real World, or a number of other stupid things. So I learned. I checked the gossip columns and watched reality TV.

The first thing I would ask her was how her day at work went. That would usually lead to about 5-10 minutes of her venting and me nodding my head and adding just a word or two between the pauses. After she was done, I would ask her if she heard the latest Jessica Simpson rumors. "What are they?" she would ask. And then I would tell her. After that she would go on for another five minutes about how she felt about that. Then we would watch Laguna Beach. I would make some crack about something that happened on the show and she would respond back.

After several weeks of this she started to open up more and more. She wasn't afraid that every conversation would lead to R/M talks. That is what you need to do. What does your WW like to talk about? Study up on it. Study up on current events. For instance, last night I had a 5-10 minutes conversation with my WW about the guy who jumped on the subway tracks to save the man who was having a seizure and fell in front of the subway train. Engage her in interesting conversation. At first she will resist, so don't push it too much, but after a while she'll slowly open up more and more.

You can thank me later. That's why I am a MB pro. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

We did talk about her days before the events of Tues night but now she has been avoiding me like the plague, W is so consumed by work and watches mostly reruns - When I try to talk about something on tv - Get a one word answer or no answer.

You know in some ways MIL has helped but now she says I should put my thoughts of OM on back burner - Give more of myself to household - buying groceries,cooking etc - How much do you give someone who isnt giving back and doesnt care about anything other than going to work?

It's like watching someone die right now, It really is sad and the more I watch her the more it kills me b/c she could do something to pull herself out and doesn't even if it isnt wanting to be w/ me

dg, there are no guarantees in any intervention, they are not a magic bullet. But that is affair intervention. I wouldn't really consider what you did an exposure, though. She just denied it because there is no evidence. Secondly, your exposure targets all kept it a secret and when it did come up she just spinned it as a "friendship."

Did you see my suggestions about quietly getting the goods? I suspect she is still having an affair.

I have the cell phone records from Nov where she talked w/ him almost daily, One call in particular was @ 12:30am.
Also caught her in a lie when she said she was working and was on her way home, 2 mins later called and said she had to go back, Caught her at his house - Called MIL who told SIL why W wasnt at church helping her clean.

Also W changed password on computer and I cracked it - It was OM's first name.

She has become so careful now to, She doesnt bring her paystubs home anymore, cell phone password changed, keeps nothing in her car. When I check on her - Her car is always there and his is generally home too.

My thing is if this is still active that she speaks w/ him @ work and uses her work phone - I am trying to get new password but not sure I can.

Called her today to see if I could drop kids off @ work as I have to attend a wake tonight and she didnt call me back, Called her cell and she sounded like I was bothering her.

Well after major LB's Tues night and talking S I am sure those things havent helped but not sure now about wherify b/c it only works if you attempt to locate - Looking for others that monitor.

The digital recorder is an option but she always has music on in her car so I am not sure what that will get

I a going to make an appt w/ my Dr. I really think I need some AD's - I am letting myself get into that bad place again, I cannot focus on anything - work is suffering.

This obsessing is eating me today, I know its my own doing because I let it but it is tough today, When I thought we were going to seperate I was in control of my feelings and emotions and now I feel I gave power back to W when I asked her last night if she wanted the S say's she wasn't sure what she wanted but the silence is killing me.

She just goes on and doesn't let on that it is affecting her although I know things are b/c when she comes home she is quiet - But its like a I really hate that he is here quiet why wont he just go away.

Part of me really wants to wait and work this out but this afternoon is one of the times I have been feeling like it isnt worth it - My ego and self esteem are really taking a beating and it was only a 2 min conversation.

I think about the kids and think its noble to keep going but then I get caught up in me, The fact that if I was her I would be actively doing something/anything to help myself.

If I was having an affair I would either have to blow up the M or the A and get a piece of mind. How can someone allow themself to hurt themself and others and not want it to stop.

I just read Mortarmans post and I dont know how he could go 4 yrs - Maybe my love isnt or wasnt as strong - Maybe we both have been holding on to something that isnt right.

Have others had these feelings? What did you do? I am posting so much that people must get sick of me especially since almost everyone here is going through the same and I cant even help myself let alone trying to help others.

read some others posts and saw some from WW's so I guess things for me could be worse but hate getting those feelings and also of feeling the need to do things independently b/c that led to some of our problems.

But I do think if I dont get caught up in being w/ her all the time and politely "force" her in to spending more time w/ kids - So I can show her I am not basing my happiness on what she does/doesn't say or do and stay away from R/M talks for awhile and LB's - Maybe conversations will open up at home, which will lead to other opportunities.

As I said - Just as in thepast before OM I feel she put her job first and left me here hanging just expecting me to understand.

Well gonna go get ready for a wake tonight - Dropping the kids off @ W's job

Another bad night and I am beginning to believe that we will have to get away from each other if we are to have any hope of reconciling.
Came home - She never locks her car it was locked,her purse was nowhere to be found, car key was hidden. She had given me new passowrd for cell but it was changed after Tues. meltdown - Says she didnt change it but it is right around the time of the billing cycle.

I couldnt hold anything in anymore and had another meltdown.

I asked her for help w/ finances she got defiant, I asked her to leave b/c she is the one unwilling to work on anything she refuses - I had such an angry outburst and feel like I ruined any hope of bringing her back.

Although I guess one thing is she finally called Agape but after last night I wouldn't be surprised if they told her to leave. And for my own sanity and everyones mental and physical health we should probably get away from one another.