SD - Thanks again, The AD's probably havent taken full effect but I notice such a difference.
I am staying on such an even keel, my appetite is alomost back, I becoming more active - Focusing as much on me as the R/M and starting to feel as if I'll be fine no matter what happens.

W and I had a 45 min talk last night, She said things went ok w/ meeting @ work - Did talk R/M a little and she really still doesnt know where she is at, At least thats the impression she gives.

I did kind of use something you said to me, Concerning a reason to work on things - Instead of focusing on things we have to lose I said we have so much to gain.

I can see she is a little timid about things and on many levels I understand - We focused more on things concerning me - I didnt bring up EA at all right now, I figure that will come when she can trust me more.

Although she said she hates getting up and going to work b/c of all the stress and increased workload, I mentioned that thinking back it really started to take its toll on her, us and our family in the beginning of the summer and by the end of summer and Oct. things were out of hand.

Asked her if the money was worth all the stress and aggravation to her - If she felt like that was it good for her.

She did bring up a couple of things concerning my changes and all I could say is I would keep working on them, Mentioned about rebuilding many of my personal R's w/ others as well - Mentioned something about my mother b/c her and I butt heads a lot - Although when talking about working on things she asked " I bet your mom thinks I am a real b1tch?"
With that I wonder if she is thinking about what others think b/c she may be willing to work on things.

As far as working on things, The only thing I said is that it needs to be both of us wanting to.

I politely excused myself and left her w/ positive thoughts - No LB's of any kind on my part and left her alone for the rest of the night to hopefully mull over a pretty much positive interaction again.

Just had some questions, Things are going good w/ personal issues really standing back and making changes and reevaluating myself daily.

If anyone would like to answer I would appreciate it, Other than positive interactions initiated mostly by me W is still cold, distant and self absorbed - Could EA still be going on - Withdrawal? Not sure to trust her feelings?

W can be very stubborn and w/ things that happened in the a couple of weeks ago where I screwed up, Although I know she still has her own issues but I am not pointing those out or trying to fix anything - I am really working on myself - AD's are really helping.

W doesn't seem to be moving in any direction - Satisfied w/ status quo - Not sleeping in the same room, Only real communication is initiated by me. Although she is till guarding personal effects - Cell phone isnt of use as display is messed up so it wouldn't help anyway

This morning b/f I left for work, Asked her if she was grocery shopping and asked for a few things, Asked how her day was yesterday b/c we didnt really talk last night, I wasn't feeling too good and fell asleep early - She didnt ask how I was feeling not that I expected her too.

Subtly made a comment in case she is still thinking of S about the util. bill for last month b/c she wanted to stay w/ kids in th house at least until after school year. As I have always paid - Mortgage, util., car ins.,cable, for a long time I was making a lot more than her but for the last year she has made very good money close to mine and I still pay these things and keeping both of our credit good.

She only pays for groceries, kids instruments, her cell phone, water and trash - Even w/ those she is always late or not paying full amount but that really isnt new either.

She hasn't asked, nor do I think done anything other than one consultation w/ lawyer about S or D - Not committed @ all to R/M - Just going to work and doing bare minimum getting through life - I really think she needs AD's right now also.

If EA is still active it cant be anything other than conversations or meetings during the work day b/c shes not out on weekends or late at night by herself - Anytime I have checked on anything she is generally @ work.

The R/M talk the other night wasn't too bad she almost seems as she is prodding to see if I can keep my changes going - To maybe trust that she would be making the right choice - But her distant, self absorbed attitude really keeps me off balance although its not ruling my life anymore.

Sorry for the long post just had some thoughts I wanted to get out there - Also b/f leaving for work this morning - I asked if she would like to go out later for coffee/ hot chocolate later today just the 2 of us - Although she didn't commit one way or the other she did say maybe so hopefully in a neutral enviroment we can talk wondering if that is good on my part?

These are the days when hopefully NC is in place, or contact is minimized and the WS can get some peeks out of the fog.

You are correct in gently pushing for time with her. Any time you do get should be conflict free, and the time should be spent very quietly showcasing your newfound self control, and inner peace.

Coffee at a neutral place is great. Smell good, look better, stay in your new Plan A character, and fill whatever EN's she'll allow. Don't be provoked by her no matter what she does or says.

This is a time for planting the seeds for reconnection. Tread carefully, as there could be mines in the garden plot. LOL! You're doing fine, dg.... keep it up.

SD

Well Sat. was a wash, Worked for a few hours and went home W and kids were out, A friend who has more troubles than I called and we decided to go together to an AA meeting.

Left W a note to call me if she still wanted to meet for coffee, Never heard from her.

After meeting friend and I went to his Mom's house where he is living, We ordered a pizza and talked of our troubles in life - It got late and I stayed there.

When I saw W on Sun. afternoon we talked she said she never saw my note, said she tried calling my cell but no messages or missed calls -She said it kept going to voice mail and didnt leave a message.

Said she was disappointed we didnt get to go out considered it a "date" but the way she was when I left for work she really seemed disinterested.

We talked Sun. night about things - Says she is scared of me, feels like she has settled for many things, I asked what would it take to make her feel safe?

She said she didnt know - I mentioned that we were both private people but now everything of our M is open to many people - I am aware of my issues and didnt point anything out about her at all - Told her I am committed to being a better person and in some ways the "control" she talks about is in her hands.

She decides whether we work on things, staying in the house etc - I asked if she would feel safer splitting up or staying together right now - She replied she doesnt know.

I mentioned the only person I can control is me and my feelings, behaviors etc - I didnt ask anything of her I only mentioned that we cannot go back to the last few years and that had I truly known how she was feeling I would have taken it to heart b/f we got to this point.

I am seeing my C today and W said she had her last free session from EAP w/ her also - No indication if she would meet as C suggested together to at least be able to communicate, Although I am really trying to make it easy for her to open up to me.

She was pretty open last night - I really listened, didnt try to fix, showed concern for her fears, validated her feelings, empathized w/ her - I really feel if we can communicate better and stay in C and maybe try MC we have a chance - Dont know if her fear is also associated w/ EA or OM and being honest but I cant worry about that right now, I can only worry about what I can do for her, my kids and staying true to myself.

dg,

You are finally on the right track. Several more months of this (I know, months) and things will eventually turn around for you. I'm in a similar holding pattern as well. I'm probably a good two months ahead of you in the process, but if you keep this up, you'll be happily married this time next year. I'm glad we've got you on track.

One thing, though, stop giving her the option of S or D. Don't keep throwing something on the table which will make the path more difficult.

Otherwise, A-... you'd have received an A+ without the reference to S.

Hang tough!
SD

Thanks both of you, I know the S and D thing is not true MB philosophy but with W saying she is scared and with her issues of my "control" in the past - I want her to feel comfortable and in control of her own life and choices.
I dont want her to feel like she is settling for anything.

I cannot make anyone do anything they don't want to or arent comfortable with, I can only make the interactions as positive as they can be, What good would it do to force someone to do something - They really have to want to do something.

Was @ the C's again yesterday, Told her I was feeling much better w/ AD's - Focusing on myself and my issues and really working to improve.

Talked of positive interactions w/ W - C said I sounded hopeful - I said Yes I was - She asked what if things dont work out? I said I would probably mourn my loss but that I would go on - W and I found out 2 wks ago we shared same C.

Wondered if C was just asking a question or if maybe she knows something? W didnt make her appt yesterday b/c of weather.

Kids were playing @ friends last night I called W on cell phone and asked if she minded if I went to the indian reservation for cigarettes and gas and if she could pick up the the kids on the way home - She was pleasnat and said Yes.

Got home and dinner was already done, I asked about her day and she shared things - I was just going to get a plate of food and give her space, I brought up that I saw C - W said she didnt make her appt due to weather.

I mentioned most of what we talked about - W seemed interested so I sat at the breakfast bar and we talked for a little while - She even smiled a few times.

Calm talk - No LB's - C has been asking me to ask W if she would be open to meeting together no matter our outcome to improve communication.

I said to C - We really havent argued, I havent brought up OM at all - Trying to focus on my part of the M problems.

B/F I went to reservation my curiousity got the better of me and drove past OM's house - He wasnt home and house was dark - Supposedly he has custody of his 3 kids and house usually isnt dark - Thought about driving past W's work but figured if she saw me - Things would take a step back.

W told me she tried to call me Sat but never got any call, no missed calls or VM's - Said she ran out of gas @ work while she had kids w/ her - She said she renewed her AAA and I confirmed through her email - But wondered if she couldn't get hold of anyone why she didnt call OM maybe it is over - But NC is hard b/c they work in the same bldg - different shifts and different depts. - Still worried about withdrawal.

Im sorry I missed her Sat night as she called it a "date" and seemed upset that we didnt but only said she wanted to hear what I wanted to say - Really nothing other than meeting in a neutral place just to talk about anything.

Mentioned I went to AA meeting w/ friend and left her a note on stove to call when she wanted but she said she never got it.

I dont really think she has anything up her sleeve but even so I keep guessing.

Mentioned to her about C asking me about "control" issues about the way the house was etc - C said let me play devils advocate and gave me a what for about that - W seemed happy that C addressed that w/ me and it made me think - I intimated to W how I felt after - I consider it a positive.

W has also noticed that I have been clearing her car off b/f I leave in the morning - So I think thats good at least she is noticing.

Sorry about long post - Just another day

No face to face interaction last night, Called her @ 6:20pm to see if she would mind if I went to an AA meeting.
Said I was sorry to bother her, asked how her day was, W was pleasant said she didnt mind if I went.

I also asked her a favor, Asked if she would mind leaving dinner warm for when I got home - She seemed a little put off.

I got in a little later than I thought - But food was in oven - Made a couple of fajitas and went downstairs.
Got up this morning, Cleaned up all dishes, wiped things down, left for work and as usual it snowed again so I cleaned off her car.

Im a little nervous about tonight, D11 has a concert at school and this will be first time I have seen or spoken w/ IL's since my meltdown a few weeks ago.

Also wondering if I should call W and ask her to meet for lunch, But feel she will probably blow me off.

Well so much for lunch! I called and angry W returned, when she realized it was me she tersely said I am kinda busy.

I said I may be going out on a limb, Would you like to have lunch - No they're bringing in lunch for us (usually only happens when quarterly bonus)

I said Thanks for keeping dinner warm last night and sorry I was a little later than I said I would be.

Anyway sorry for all the posts - I am trying but everything seems to be a waste - Cant tell anything w/ her

dg, how about a little refresher, in bullet points, to keep anyone just joining in up to date?

D-day...when NC began...just a few basics for a snapshot view. Partly a selfish request as well, so busy at work I'm having a hard time keeping it all straight.

I think you are still in the process of "proving" to your W there is a new dg, but she still has doubts of your sincerity, and progress IS being made. Just not the kind you can see or feel.

Thanks, and hang in there!
SD

SD,

Dday was about 2 weeks after W said "She didnt think she wanted to be married anymore (10/29/06

For a few months I tried showing I could be "new" me except for R/M talks and exposing to IL's, Pastor and my family.

Not sure of NC - They still work in same bldg - OM works 4:30am-3:30pm - W works 8:00am - 6:00pm

For awhile W was staying b/c its the right thing to do or b/c I win, her parents win, church wins but had 2 meltdowns 1/2/07 and 1/5/07 Fell off wagon and major LB's - W regains support from IL's

Working on my issues w/ C since Jan 8th - controlling, lots of LB's - Trying to make her feel safe.

Not sure if EA or OM is ongoing and underground or over - OM is D'ed twice and supposedly custody of 3 kids.

Trying to make all encounters positive and safe - 1 or 2 R/M talks a week vs daily.

W says she felt she settled for things a lot the last few yrs - Fears me - Not sure what she wants and knows it isnt healthy for either of us or our kids D11 S10.

House is an issue as well - Neither could afford it if S or D - We also owe more than we would get - Says she wants a home but feels like this is just a house.

Both seeing same IC - No MC and only met w/ a C together once in mid Nov. - W says she just wants time and space.

Tried meeting several times w/ Pastor MC in late Nov thru Dec. but W was angry over exposure and adamant of not working on R/M.

I really hate the "limbo" - D11 asked in early Jan. if we were "splitting up" I couldn't answer - W told her not sure but no matter what we love them.

W is still secretive about many things - I was so into spying that she called things "commando tactics"

W has own issues as well - Lying even about smallest things, mentioned childhood issues w/ parents but for the last month - Nothing from me about her issues including OM all about making positive changes for myself.

Actually no real Dday for me as W wont admit to anything other than being a friend - I consider it Dday b/c I confronted about #'s on her cell phone, Found out her explanation was a lie.

Later found out it was a coworker, Also password on our pc for her acct was changed in late Nov. from my first name to his first name - After telling kids it was the person she disliked most at work.

Caught her in another lie in mid Dec. when she said she was at work on a Sat. but founde her car in his driveway - Confronted her and tried not to LB and stupidly left her to spen another 2 hrs w/ him.

Although have no real eveidence of PA and tested articles of clothing but nothing.

I know my issues caused problems in our M - And trying to address those.

Thanks for the update. I knew the first few months were rocky, after you first suspected, but couldn't remember the details.

So far as advice goes, I think you have come a long way in your self-improvement and getting some of your issues under control.

I guess I'm still of the opinion that you just need to take more time to allow your changes to be both proven and noticed by your W, and I'm reluctant to advice much more until your sitch has proven to have stabilized.

You might want to start testing the waters with a vase of flowers in her car with a note, and the other tippy-toe efforts to get more face time with her. At least see if she's at all receptive, and then decide where to go then.

If nothing has changed by mid January, I may advise you to start a new thread, to get some more input from others. Only a few of us hung in there with you in the stormy days from Thanksgiving through New Year, and frankly, I am reluctant to have you continue without more diverse opinions.

I have seen you make tremendous strides in yourself, but we need to get your M re-engaged one of these days!

Best wishes,
SD

SD, Had to start a new post last night, W has S/D papers although they are only partially filled out.

W still says she isnt sure but as I said a week or so ago I felt she may have been up to something.

My new thread is - HELP - W may be up to something.

Thanks Again, I am in a different place since I saw papers not even sure I want to try anymore - Maybe just protect myself

dg, I saw that, and have stayed clear of the thread so you get some new input from several others. I think you needed more than just me an a couple others advising you, so I'm glad you got the new thread. I will lay low and see how the other thread develops, and if I have something to add, I will.

The point you are reaching/have reached is the same point I reached with I was able to fully detach from my WW emotionally. Frankly, I was still in Plan A, and not unlike you, getting nothing in return. Only when I stopped giving a sh i t about the outcome, did things start to turn around.

Anyway, I'll stay off the other thread and see how things go for a while, but I'll be watching to see what develops!

Hang in there,
SD