Boys pick up their father's attitudes very young. I would be quite surprised if your husband didn't know.

But it is too early to see how this is going. Make yourself a promise that you will take care of you and your child, that you will really work the MB plan, and try it for 6 months. Stick around here and post. It really helps.

At the end of 6 months, see if he has made any changes toward working on the marriage. At least then you will have the peace of knowing that you made a good effort.

I am not going anywhere for at least one year so I am going to try and I will keep posting on MB. Thanks again Believer.

I hope you will. It's strange. I've been here for several years, and it is very hard to tell who is going to end up with a great marriage, and who is not. Sometimes the ones that I'm sure are going to make it, don't. And sometimes the ones that don't seem very hopeful do just fine.

You won't know until you take the time, and work the program.

This is just an observation
____________________________________________________

I have been trying to plan A my husband and stop love busting him. What I have noticed over the past couple of days is that my husband seems to have no interest in filling any of my EN's. It's strange because from his persepective I am sure that he feels like he is doing his best to fill my EN's but he is doing what he wants to do rather than what I need.

I have asked him to fill out EN's questionaires and he has ignored my request.

I asked him to see a movie with me that I really wanted to see together and he refused.

I have asked him nicely to stop teasing me about certain things that really hurt my feelings and he refuses.

_________________________________________________

Instead, he has told me that he is going to learn how to give the baby a bath.

I had only asked him to do that since the baby was born and he always refused. Now that I have given up on the idea and could care less he brings it up out of nowhere and decides that he is going to do this as a favor to me.

I got a certain item for X-mas that I told him I didn't want in the first place. He bought it anway and we had a blow out and I destroyed it when I was LB him. Well today he said that he was looking into buying me a replacement of that item even though when he mentioned getting me another one yesterday I said I didn't want another one!

Last night a movie was on cable and he kept insisting that I watch it because it was so very funny. I told him that it wasn't my kind of movie but he insisted. So I watched it and after 15 minutes when he noticed that I hadn't laughed once he said it was O.K to turn it and that it was funnier in the movie theater.

_______________________________________________________

Maybe I am crazy of nitpicky but it seems to me that my opinion has no weight in this marriage.

I have only been really paying attention to this behavior for a few days but when I look back it has been like this all along.

AE:

What starts to happen in a M after a while is we start meeting the EN's that WE think the other partner needs. And we are getting annoyed with the other person becuase they do not respond in a manner that we expect. Creates a very bad dynamic. His Needs Her Needs describes this process and acknowledging what is going on goes along way to fixing it.

But your husband isn't on this plan. Your Husband is in a world all his own.

He might be fully passive-agressive. And if he is, you need to check out Mulan's threads and responses, she's can provide an awful lot of support.

So, I propose a little amusement for you. Your husband seems to want to do with you whatever really displeases you.

Sex when you are not in the mood, or in your cycle.
Watch this movie that he knows you won't like.
Buys you a present you don't like. You break it, He insists on buying you another.
Ask him not to get into inappropriate relationships with other women: He logs into Myspace and finds even more.
Haven't asked him to bath the baby for awhile? Well he's just Mr Helpful there.

So, you know what your boundaries are, establish the penalties if he crosses them. And start enforcing it.

But the amusement angle, is to just accept whatever he does with the greatest amount of enthusiasm when he does things that annoy you.

He wants to bath the baby? Tell him no, he's a big strong man and he shouldn't do that!
Rebuy you the same present? Why it's the greatest thing you ever recieved!
Knock down the paper towel holder? Why silly me! How could I have gotten that angry with you!
Wants to remind you of your rage the other night? How could I have ever gotten that mad at you? Can you replace those things? Hang them up with me?

Do not do it with anything remotely dealing with other women, thats a boundary and you will not let him cross.

He is destroying you slowly with his actions. He finds out what is important to you and dilberatly soils it. So, find out what is his idea and what he wants to do, and throw your enthusiastic support behind it. Rock his world.

It's a form of Reverse Babble. Check out Orchid for more help with that.

This is in no way endorsed by the Harley's. (Not reverse babble, the amusement angle) You create a conflict in your H. He wants to get you angry, or defeat your defenses. Since you agree to something that should go against these principles of his, it creates conflict. And he might end up doing things that you want him to do anyway. But it seems that isn't what he thinks you want. Got it?

And you get to be amused by the gyrations in the meantime while you read HNHN and about passive/agressive behaviors. Because the P/A angle needs to be explored before the M will move to a better spot. If ever.

It feels like mental and emotional torture to me. I don't know what is wrong with me but I am in pain over here. The anxiety is almost more than I can stand. I really want to go somewhere right now. I was so happy when I got away on Thursday for a few hours. He refused to see the movie with me so I went with a friend. Of course he had to say something negative in the form of a joke. I was playing with the baby while I was waiting for my friend to pick me up. I was playing with the baby and telling the baby not to be sad because I was going out and that I would be back soon. He picks the baby up and says in this small voice "Then don't go mamma you're leaving me here all alone." Way to go for trying to make me feel guilty for wanting to go out when I asked him to join me several times.

My sister came over on Friday and he was joking around and making me the butt of the joke as usual. I had told him that I saw something on 20/20 that said women lose 10% of their brain function for the first 6 months post-partum. So now anytime I do something wrong he will say that it's because I have lost 50% of my brain function. He has said this in front of his family and my family. I dropped a bowl of salsa and he said it while my sister was visiting. It made me try to think of a time he has said anything positive about me in his or my families presence. I can't recall a single nice thing he has ever had to say about me in front of our friend's or family.

He loves to tell everyone about me staying home all day and watching Dr. Phil and Oprah but he never says anything about me staying up all night taking care of our baby. He never tells anyone about any of the things I do around the house or how I have to manage all of our fianances or the bills would never get paid. He never tells anyone about when he was un-employed or making way less money than he does now, the days when I had to take care of us financially. Instead he makes himself seem like this "big guy" for allowing me to stay home and take care of our child.

All he ever does is criticize me in front of other people or make fun of me.

Again he asked me about the X-mas gift. He actually went to the store and called me from there and asked me again if I wanted one. I said no thanks. When he got home he asked yet again and asked me why I didn't want a replacement. He asked if it was because it would remind me of the one I broke? I said no it's because I didn't want it in the first place and we have bills to pay and I don't want another one.

I just have to vent here because plan A is still in effect but I am getting angrier and angrier over here.

Okay, you need to get some counseling right away. For yourself. Your husband is abusive, maybe not in the physical sense, but in the emotional sense. He also sounds very controlling.

What an [censored]. This is the kind of guy that makes me embarassed to be a guy.

I'm sure you've thought of it, but your other choice is move out. Take the baby and go live with someone who supports you. Don't go back until he's been taking things seriously for a few weeks. That includes counseling and serious discussions about what was wrong and how he will change.

Good luck. I am so sorry you have to deal with this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Second to Mebe's suggestion....

Sounds to me as if he's the one that needs the IC. You just need to get away from his abuse. Obviously he's not going to stop without some kind of wakeup call. Get some help and get out of there for you and your' child.

When/IF he wakes up and proves he's changed then you need to take it very slowly and carefully in restablishing a R. You don't want to end up right back here again.

The description does indeed sound like passive/aggressive bullying. The others here have given you very good advice. While you work on that, you may want to look at these two links in my sig line and see if the speak to you.
Mulan

And the lies just keep on coming!

I confronted the husband on the weekend and we had a long talk about our marital woes. DH agreed that we do have a problem and that he might be PA. I told him about Dr. Harley and the books I ordered. He was so amicable he almost had me fooled for a minute. There was hand holding and looking into each other's eyes and all of that phony good stuff to sucker me in. I made a solemn vow to work on my AO because I know how harmful it is to our marriage and he made a solmen vow to tell me the truth in all matters. He told me that the MB plan sounded like a good one and that MC would be the next step. He even went so far as to tell me to print out all of Dr. H's info so he could read it because he SO wants this marriage to be better and he SO wants to be my very best friend as well as hubby.

Well he has not even lasted a week.

He told me he understands how much his same sex friendships hurt me because of our past and he so understands why I have trust issues from the past hurts. He promised to drop these friend's like a hot potato and work on what we have here.

Fast forward to tonight. We are in the living room and he is on AIM talking to one of his male friends. Little does he know that I am logging his IM's so up pops up a ****** from the lady he had set up the lunch date with. I said nothing I just stood over his shoulder waiting for his response. He is ilke "Huh? what does she want to talk to me for" I walked away because I knew I would see what he said later. Anyway a few minutes later he came into the bedroom and said "I told ______ that we will not be speaking anymore and then I closed the message"

Later when he was in the shower I checked and you know that isn't what he said at all.

What he typed verbatim was: hey....
i dont think right now is a good time...bye

I know I may sound petty but to me any lie is a no go with us at this point especially since he swore up and down that no matter how small it seemed to him he would tell the truth. Now that my expectations have been explicitly stated and he has told me that understands and agrees 100% all future lies are now considered deliberate and unacceptable to me.

I said nothing but I sent him this email which he will see in the AM with his log attached.

I just wanted to let you know that I know that you have once again choose to lie to me. There is a difference between telling someone that you don't think you will speak to them again and telling them that now isn't a good time. Well I guess I now know the truth that you are a liar and will always be one. We had a very long and intense discussion and you made a solemn promise to tell the exact truth on everything but now I know that your word is worth nothing.The trust has been irrevocably shattered between us and I will never trust you again. All I can say is that I had a feeling that your promises were empty and it didn't even take a week for you to prove me right.

Next I sent an email to the lady who IM's him. I told her that I was in no way angry with her or faulting her for anything that my husband does but I just want her to know who she has for a friend. I then told her what he said to me and how it differed from what he actually typed her. I told her that we had an issue because he hid trying to make a lunch date with her and that I just thought she should know that her good buddy has a serious problem with telling the truth and that everything he says is suspect and should be taken with a grain of salt. I told her that I sincerely doubt that there is anything going on between the two of them but that regardless of that his lies have created a strain in our marrige. In closing I told her that I didn't care if she showed him the message because if he isn't worried about violating our relationship then I am surely not ashamed of violating his "privacy" and since I am so not worried I choose to send it to her through HIS myspace account so that he will know all about it.

I know that may not be the mature way to handle it but I could care less right now and I can only imagine his face in the mornig when I go off to school and he get's a message from her or sees the email I sent him.

He always expects me to explode with rage when he lies and I refuse to play his game any longer. I will never again let his nonsense work me up into a froth.

I am still in Plan A and when confronted I am going to refuse to rise to his bait and will only say that since he continues to lie I will continue to NOT trust him at all. He may do as he pleases and get as mad as he wants to but I am standing firm and my next step is a hardware keylogger because no matter what he says from now on I will need to see it for my own eyes.

The next step is that I am going to expose his lying behavior to our families and friend's.

I know that I am taking a chance in pushing him away because he does not want to be exposed for the liar that he is but I can't live like this anymore. We are going to have some sort of progress and an eventually resolution will come of this good or bad. His lies are 100% intolerable to me and everytime I catch him in a lie I will confront him and expose him to all of the parties involved in the lie. He will either get sick of me and leave or decide to make an effort to work on this marriage and change his ways once and for all. It's going to be his choice in the end.

Hi Almondeyes,

I just cannot believe how similar our situations are. I've just been gobsmacked to read someone else going through the same kind of stuff that I went through.

Sadly, my situation has not ended up well.

My WH is 4 years younger than me. We married when he was 21. My husband is an extremely attractive man, and so got ALOT of attention from girls. Before we were married I felt his behaviour was inappropriate on MANY occassions when it came to other women. From nice emails to holding one crying teenager in his arms to comfort her etc etc. We fought endlessly throughout our first year of marriage about these things. One night we were at a party and I was heavily pregnant and I walked outside to find him chatting with the prettiest stranger in the room. They were both sitting down opposite each other and he had his legs up on her chair on either side of her. I flipped out. We had a massive fight.

Throughout all this, my WH constantly defended his actions. He made out that I was paranoid and that he was just a 'charming' guy that worked with lots of females (in the recruitment industry). I ended up absolutely emotionally battered in many ways, became a total doormat and in the end kept my mouth shut about everything.

Within 12 months of our daughter being born he started to have a PA with one of his co-workers...and the rest, as they say, is history.

I now realise my WH was extremely immature, didn't actually like the idea of being married and what that entailed and absolutely loved all the female attention he got because it stroked his ego. Sadly, it is only because of his own emptiness that this was even necessary.

My story ends sadly, as I feel divorce is right around the corner, and I'm just realising this post is not exactly doing much to lift your spirits.

What do I wish someone would have said to me while I was still in your position before an affair actually started? I wish someone had told me to get us both to marriage counselling and that I should not take NO for an answer from him.

Please do this (sorry, maybe you have and I haven't read that far in your stitch yet). The conversations I've read are inappropriate - not so much for what was said, but for the excitement I sense from your husband and also the fact that he's telling other girls 'now's not a good time' etc. I can see this heading right where it headed with me.

He needs to learn to set boundaries with other woman and he's not going to get there by himself or with you telling him. He needs someone else to.

I'll be following what happens and wish you all the very best.

Lucy your post does make me sort of sad but I have a great need for the truth at this point. I have been dealing with lies for so long that the truth no matter how harsh is a breath of fresh air. It's like a line from my favorite Beatles song Strawberry Fields:

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

I am now realizing that for many years I have been living with my eyes closed and I have mis understood just about everything in this relationship. I have made excuse after excuse for his bad behavior. Living with eyes open and understanding sure isn't easy but I need to go through the pain and hopefully there will be some light at the end of the tunnel. I cannot go through my life with a liar.

Right now my financial situation isn't a good one. I could get a job but I am in school and in about a year I will be doing something that will mean financial security for me and my new baby. If I go back to work right now the industry I work in is unstable and we might have to rely on CS to get by. Needless to say I am not willing to rely on a liar for anything because I am sure that if and when it all falls down he will turn nasty like most liars and WS are wont to do. So for right now I am on a countdown. I am going to suggest MC again and that he finish reading the the stuff I printed from this site. The choice is his though and I cannot force him to work on this marriage if he does not want to do so.

At least I have my dignity back and I will no longer be in a position of going crazy and losing sleep over a liar. I think the worst part was the not knowing for sure and thinking that I was being crazy and unreasonable.

Hi guys! Good Morning and Happy New Year's!

I wanted to jump in and let you guys know that both your stories sound familiar and that I have had success.

I was/am dealing with PA behavior and conflict avoidance. I've had to learn to first move my button, change things about me. Stand up and say that I wasn't afraid of him...

He would blame me for the things that he did...I felt didn't respect me...and I really had to stand my ground...

I was a very anger and resentful person, assumed and expected...didn't realize it at the time but was taking my anger out on the kids...poor things...

I was devastated by my FWH's A...I was in shock...would go crazy when I found anything...we argued SOOO much...he would try to intimidate or threaten me...but I can say that today is better...

I can provide links to me story...I just wanted to give you hope that things can change...I'm the one that had to make major adjustments...Plan A was more about me than him...

I learned from reading about PA behavior that some have a fear of abandonment...basically I learned everything about the behavior that I could...

FWH burned some of my books b/c they were a threat to him...he didn't want me coming to this site...he tried very hard to control me and I wouldn't allow it anymore...

I use to back down to him, but after D-day and I started learning to regain myself back, things changed...

The best thing I could do was focus on ME...do what was BEST for me, and the kids...I even went to a laywer to find out my rights...how I could get him out of the house should I need to...b/c low and behold he WOULD NOT leave on his own...

FWH wanted me to move out and leave the kids...yeah, right...b/c I was the problem not him...

Anyway, I'm making progress everyday...I'm more aware of the things that I do that are disrespectful...when I get mad I get to the source asking myself why am I mad...so far I've seen that it's becuase of unspoken expectations or assumptions on my part...

Keep standing your ground ladies...moving your buttons...becoming the best S that ANYONE would want to have...make new friends...go on with your life...don't believe and take any [email]cr@p...[/email]

I'm learning more everyday...don't let them make you mad...once they have done that they've won...well, got their way...

When dealing with me FWH when he was in "that" mood...I have to pretend that there is a glass wall in front of me and the blaming that he does, the aweful things he would say just bounced off that wall...you can't take any of it personal...

It's not about you...it's about him...his insecurities...his beliefs...his thoughts...

I've dealt with all of the lies...about small things too...makes no sense to me...but to him it does...

We all use the tools that we have at the time to the best of our ability...be the lighthouse...find new tools for yourself!

Get your head and heart in sync...I love my DH but I also have to know for myself that should I have too I can live without him...

This is a DJ, but I think at some point they think that no matter how much [censored] they put us through we'll still be around...JMHO!

Hope this helps! I have faith you can do this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Rinder funny you should mention the abandoment issue. During our "deep" conversation he told me his worst fear is that I will leave him. He told me that the very night before he had a nightmare that I left him for another man. He said in the dream that all of our family and friends were surrounding him tell him what a greay guy this OM was.

Also, as a child his parent's divorced when he was about 7. His mother tried to keep him and his brother but she was very young and they ended being shuffled amongst relatives until he was 13. His father left the family and never paid CS and rarely visited the kid's.

I actually had to get to the point that I wanted a D and told DH. I had the money ready, looked him in the face and said "What to you want me to look you in the face and tell you I want a D, I want a D!"

FWh asked if I was willing to give up everything that we had together, and I said that I guess I was b/c I was tired and listed what I was able to offer him...

Nothing more...nothing less...two days later, he said that he was willing to do whatever it took but he was still acting an a$$...it took his mom to sit us both down Thanksgiving night until 2am to get us right...

So far so good...FWh said that we are hit rock bottom at different points...He was willing to work things out the night I said I wanted a D, but at that point, I wanted no part of it...

So, far two days, he suffered...thinking he was losing the boys and me...and he was...I was tired and had enough! I didn't want Plan B...but PLan D...

Things ARE SOOOO much better...I go to my meetings on Tues. night...LOL...there's my serenity and sanity! LMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thurs. nights are his...

Recovery is a process, life is a journey...it's what we do along the way that matter... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry to hear that about your WH...it's a good thing to know!

Rinder I am very glad things have worked out between you and your FWH. I don't know how far down we will have to go to get back up and I don't know if once we get there I will have any interest in working on anything. I find myself wanting out right now and I felt repulsed by him when he tried to hug me today but I am putting on one ****** of a front because I am not going to be left out to dry by him.

Love is a choice! Somedays are hard than others! Everyday I chose to love you!

I actually said this to FWH once. You have that choice to make. Remember why you fell in love with him and hold tight to that!

Easier said than done...I know!

Supporting you all the way! Knowing that you have the strenghten even when you don't think you do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That is what I am thinking about the “choice to love.” I am finding that in the same way I chose to love him I can make a choice to not love him anymore. I have the power to remove myself from this situation; from all of his crazy making antics. I guess I am in a contemplative frame of mind these days. I am not even sure if what I have is worth all of the effort it is going to take to salvage the relationship; especially when he is not very interested in working with me.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


OMG...this was a constant battle in my mind...wanting it to work and then wondering if it was worth the effort...

Has he said to you that he's not interested in working it out? Or are you determining this by his actions?

I was just wondering...b/c I use to do this...do you feel that your WH is inferior or someone to look down too... that perhaps you are smarter...

Do you feel that you are treated equal...do you treat him as your equal...

I thought that I was smarter...b/c I did everything...handled all the bills, house, kids, worked FT...and then there was...FWH assucing me of treating him like a child...

That was a joke in my eyes...no way...not me...I was controlling...

I had to learn that this was his TRUTH and theere was some merit to it when I got right down to it...when I allowed myself to see it...I had a lot of learning to do before I was willing to open my eyes to my part...

Does your WH accuse you of anything?


Good to know... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You sound very centered...do you attend meeting now? Working a program?