This is my first post on this site after spending many months as an anonymous user.

My story briefly is: WH had a 2 year affair which I found out about after it was over. D day for me was April 1/06. Then we decided to stay together and get counselling to try to work things out. WH was somewhat reluctant and extremely sceptical but agreed.

We spent the lots of time in counselling addressing issues and doing a lot of great work. I felt we were making progress but got the feeling WH wasn't fully engaged or committed to recovery. Meanwhile he is keeping a very close relationship with a female co-worker and confiding with her about Affair #1.

I knew it wasn't right and told him so. After many disagreements about this friendship, he very reluctantly agreed to end it. Lo and behold, this turned out to be a big lie and has recently (5weeks ago) started a PA with co-worker #2.

I just found out on December 17 and immediately asked him to leave the home. Our 2 daughters, 19 and 21, are extremely angry and upset with him. The 19 year old will not speak with him at all.

He moved to a hotel room and begged to return home. I told him absolutely not. We have met several times to discuss things and I let him know I will never agree to his return unless certain conditions are adhered to.

These would be: -break it off with OW
-agree to no contact
-seek individual counselling
-re-committ to recovery with CONVICTION

He readily agreed to all of these but I suggested he go ahead and rent an apartment because I am unsure as to his real level of committment.

I was able to phone Dr. Harley's show and talk with him. He suggested my WH remain out of the family home but that we should spend 15 hours a week together. Dr. H said I would be able to tell very quickly if my WH is serious about working with me on our marriage. Only after that should he be allowed to return.

My devastion is complete after believing our marriage was improving steadily, especially these last 2 months. His betrayal is really hard to understand. Dr. H feels he may be having an "awakening". I'm not sure but hope my WH will have time to think about all he may lose especially seeing how it is the Christmas Holidays and we are here and he is in his little dump.

Anyway, I am not sure how to be around him. We have had several angry sessions (mainly me). Should we be avoiding talk that will re-ignite my anger or what? It infuriates me that he comes over here and starts talking about buying towels or whatever. Any suggestions.

The girls have invited him for Christmas Eve as the thought of him all alone tonight is too difficult to endure.

BTW, he has completely apologized to me, the girls, expressed great remorse and has said to me that he is taking full responsibility for this one. It does help that he has done this, at least.

Any advice would be appreciated.

You people are all awesome.

[color:"red"] brilliant advise !!! [/color]
tell your WH about this plan

since your WH is the one who is desperate to reconcile ... tell WH that it is up to HIM to arrange 10 hours (of the 15 hours) a week

and you are responsible for the other 5

see how much EFFORT WH is willing to expend

your 5 hours?
museums
walks
bowling
sport event
concert
volunteer work

you get the idea... make WH do the heavy-lifting

and observe his willingness vs his whining

Pep

If he has agreed to no contact, did one of them leave their job to achieve this?


Stop lovebusting him, Freya. That may cause him to give up and throw in the towel. It you want to try and make this work, I would get into Plan A. But if you are making this too difficult and he feels like you won't forgive him, then that may very well push him towards the OW if he thinks this is hopeless. Stop lovebusting him and let him know you are willing to make this work if he does certain things.

Sorry you are here, but you certainly came to the right place. Welcome! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have him read SAA. It is a good tool to help him understand why and how his affairs happened. To make sure he read it, ask him what he learned. By the way, you should probably read it to so you can affair proof your marriage.

Thank you everyone for your wonderful support and advice. I feel such an affinity for everyone here and that you are all pulling for me.

PEP: I too have so much respect for Dr. Harley and his great advice. He wants me to email him in one weeks time for an update so I will do this after Xmas. In the meantime I will try to spend time with WH and do everything in my power to stop LBing him (although I often feel I am at my absolute limit while listening to him)

Example: I am so confused, I need to figure myself out, I am a monster, you deserve better, I love you and I love her, she and I are so alike (hurl), etc. etc.

ML: the current situation at work is my husband has taken another position within the same large company. He will be working in a different tower and taking different elevator banks than the OW. Their departments will be conpletely separate and he will never have an occasion to work with her or see her there. His new job will be starting Jan 2. This had already been planned before I found out about the current affair.

He has blocked her email on his company email and of course, since he has a company cell phone, the numbers are common knowledge in the corporation so anyone can phone you. He claims he will not accept a call from her should this happen. When he broke it off with her and asked for no contact, she apparently agreed to this out of "respect" for him.

BTW, I phoned her on Monday morning and gave her my take on her, their affair and their so-called justifications. I realize that may have been wrong but I definately indulged my anger on that one. She promised me she would stop seeing my husband and apologized. Yeah right!

JMWC95: I have read SAA and also use this website extensively and have felt it has been a life saver as well as offering hope to this horrible situation. My husband has not read the book. I have quoted Dr, H ad nauseum to my WH so he is not open to reading his concepts. At least he wasn't before but may be now. I may ask him to read this and plan to stop "sharing" his ideas and concepts with WH.

Some background:

Me: BS age 50
WH age 48
DD age 21
DD age 19

Affair #1 with 53 year old co-worker: Nov 03-Jan 06
Affair #2 with 57 year old co-worker EA June 06
PA Nov 06

WH leaves on Dday#2 Dec 17, breaks off with OW Dec 18, NO Contact begins Dec 20/06

Freya, is she married?

yuck!

when he does this and you feel yourself giving in to an angry/ugly verbal slap to his head ...

HOLD UP YOUR HAND TO HIS FACE AND SAY FIRMLY ~~~>
[color:"red"]" S T O P right there" [/color] ... put your hand down ... take his hand in yours and hold his eyes with yours and continue:

"You are about to jump up and down on the pieces of my heart that still hold love for you ... please do not do this. I know that is the adultery talking, and not my true husband , that I still love. I need some space to compose myself. I will return when I am in a better spirit to continue our talk."

then, walk to another room

do not just stand there and "take it in" when he is being a foggy babbling husband ... I could not stand that either!!!!

Pep

Would this include a No Contact Letter to both OW?

Also, I'm wondering about possibilities of still using exposure. I'm guessing that's where Melody was heading when she inquired on the current-OW being married.

Personally, I think both OW (current and former) should be exposed.

Jo

Just checking in here on Christmas Eve.

First, the OW#2 is not married but in a long term common law relationship. They are currently away on a Christmas vacation where she is supposedly letting him know about the affair.

Just this afternoon, my WH let me check his cell phone and surprise, surprise, there was a message from OW. He had already listened to it and erased it and initially tried to explain it away. I pushed and he finally admitted she had called him. This was absolutely not surprising and I fully expected that she would not honour no contact.

I was upset but kept it together and he was extremely upset that I had discovered his message. He looked very angry but didn't say much and we pretty much left it at that because of Christmas Eve. Our 2 daughters wanted him here for the evening so we had planned to be together this evening after which he will be returning to his apartment.

My question: Should I send a message to OW on her cell phone to let her know I found out about her leaving voicemail for my husband? Let me know.


In the meantime, I'm pretty upset with my WH as he initially tried to lie about it. He says he can't tell me the truth because I over react so I am trying hard not to this time.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Hi Freya,

First, I would not trust that OW will tell her SO (significant other). If she even does, I'm sure she'll lie and place some kind of positive spin on the whole thing starring her as either a victim or just your H's good friend which he confides in to talk about his mean unreasonable wife, you.

I suggest you expose the affair to him (OW's SO). Give him hard evidence when you contact him, and please do not tell him about this site just yet as he might end up telling OW about it. This is YOUR safe place for support for now.

What you wrote above regarding your H being fearful of telling you about contact from OW. Its extremely hard not to show emotion/anger when you find this stuff out, we all have been there. But you CAN do it.

What you want is your H to be able to come to you, without you love busting, and tell you anything and everything. Be the lighhouse back to the marriage.

I suggest your H get a new cell phone number, that way if the OW calls it you'll know he gave her the number and the affair IS still active from his side.

If he wants to rebuild your marriage, he should be willing to do anything you request to regain your trust.

God Bless, hang in there.
Jo

I'm sure she won't let her SO know about the affair, as they never seem to get around to that. That is your best ammunition. YOU let him know about the affair.

Same thing happened to me. OW's husband was fighting in Iraq when the affair started. When he came home, I was assured that his wife told him everything. WRONG. She told him how my husband had been such a friend, and helped her.
GAG.

I didn't know what had been said, but presented myself at OW's home, and told her husband myself. That way I knew that he was getting the truth.

no

say nothing to OW

when you can

EXPOSE to her live-in boyfriend ... without warning

the lies are what does so much damage... I agree with you



Pep ~~~> READ HERE

I suggest your H get a new cell phone number, that way if the OW calls it you'll know he gave her the number and the affair IS still active from his side.
... for emphasis

this is an important boundary for your H to protect the marriage

Pep

Freya, the others are right, don't bother calling the OW anymore, she is a waste. What you should do is call her SO and alert him to the affair. Don't tell your H you are going to do this, just do it. This will make it harder for her to pursue your H.

The fact that she is still calling your H tells me he is not done with the affair at all. If he were, she likely would not be calling him.

And the fact that he lied about it says IT ALL. He is not done with the affair and is not serious about committing to your marriage......YET.

Call OW's BF and tell him to RUN far away from the OW ASAP!

Don't wait until after Christmas. Call immediately.

As for your H being hurt or angry you found out, tell him those emotions right now belong to you and he has NO right t/b angry. Instead he needs to work on being REPENTANT, sincerely repentant.

L.

Bumping.

Freya,

How are you doing?

Jo

Hello Everyone:

Well, here is an update on how everything is going.

On Christmas Eve my WH came over for dinner. It would be just the four of us (me, Wh and 2DD). He seemed very pleased to be invited and claimed he wanted to be here.

Anyway, after I found a voicemail from OW on his cellphone, we had a confrontation but I really tried to stop lovebusting and keep it together but I was so angry with him because he is not getting the concept of no contact.

He was visibly upset that I had found the voicemail and he had to admit to listening to it. He had tears in his eyes and begged me not to make a scene on Christmas Eve. I told him that was his choice. We ended up having quite a pleasant evening with our girls and he was very affectionate with them and me. Lots of hugs and touching.

Later in the evening, when he was getting ready to leave I found him checking his phone again and then I did some major lovebusting. Sorry.... I know this is not what I should have done but couldn't handle it. He left in a huff after I got angry and our 2 DDs were very upset and sobbing. I called him on his cell and asked him to return to try to calm down DDs. He agreed and he came back and then we all got into it. It was not a pleasant scene. He was extremely angry with me for "ruining" the evening and I was extremely angry with him for breaking no contact.

Long story short, he ended up staying overnight because it became so late and we all just crashed. The next morning he was remorseful and apologized, as I did too. He stayed the entire day and our DDs were very happy to have him here.

He was extremely affectionate and caring towards me all day and also with the girls. He stated several times that he was very happy to be here and thanked me over and over again for allowing him to share Christmas Day with us. He gave me a very expensive gift after we had previously decided not to exchange gift because of 2 big purchases in November.

The girls and I left at 4:00 pm to have Christmas Dinner with my sister and her family and also my parents and brother. WH was, of course, not invited so we left with him still at the house. He was just going to gather up his things and leave.

We returned at 7:30 pm and he was still at the house doing minor chores and also working on the fireplace in our family room. (He recently had been completing a very long project of making a family room downstairs). I was surprised to see him still here and he said he would be leaving shortly. However, he seemed very reluctant to leave and ended up staying till 11:00 p.m.

I am really trying to deal with these roller coaster emotions and trying not to do any LBs. I do wonder if his gift to me was out of guilt or real caring. He was his old self yesterday, showing lots of caring and affection and being very humble about being with us. He kept grabbing my hand and hugging me and holding me. What's up with that?

We talked a little about no contact and he said he would agree not to take any more calls, messages,etc and not to phone her. I do not believe for one minute that this will happen. I feel he is making choices that will ultimately cause us to fail at recovery.

Anyway, that's how it went and he said he will call later today.

I'm hangin in there but he is sorely testing me.

Freya, will he send a no contact letter that is written by you both and mailed by you? Sending the letter would be a demonstration of his committment to never ever see or talk to her again. Here is a sample from Dr. Harley's Surviving an Affair:

Dr. Harley's (From SAA)

(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she&#65533;s been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

Tell him if he is serious about NC, he needs to change his phone number. If he doesn't, I would call the cell phone company (assuming you are on the bill as well) and get it changed for him. I wouldn't leave anything to chance. When my WW agreed to NC, I removed OM's number from my WW's cell phone, got rid of all the bills with his number on it, destroyed all pieces of paper with his contact info, deleted his email from WW's contact list, and blocked his email address. Well during withdrawal, she got OM's number from a friend and called him with a calling card. Withdrawal is difficult, so unfortunately, YOU are going to have to HELP him out with it.

ML:

We have not discussed him sending the OW a no contact letter but I will bring this up the next time we are alone together.

I think he will do it but my worry is it won't be honoured by WH or OW.

She is still away on vacation and will be returning sometime this weekend. I have already decided that I will phone her boyfriend/significant other and let him know about the affair. Of course, I will not let my husband know this.

Oh, by the way, some have suggested him getting a new cell phone number but this would be irrelevant since it is a company cell phone and they work for the same company. The numbers are in the company directory.

In the meantime, I feel like I really want him back home but I also know this would be counter productive right now so I am struggling with missing him so much.