Hello everybody,

My recovery with my FWW is going very well, better than I would have ever hoped for just a month ago. We still have a long way to go, as evidenced by the fact that I characterize this last week as a great week, yet it includes one punched hole in the wall and a separate bout of crying/depression on my part (which my W lovingly brought me back from which makes me feel even better about the M). Basically, the highs are higher and the lows are lower than the marriage we had before DDay.

Here's my question. We have family friends that we've known for a few years now. The couple has 3 young girls that are roughly the same age as our 2 young girls, and they all get along great. DW and I get along with the couple. We'll call them John and Jane. We often get together for dinners or take all 5 kids out together. The problem is that John and Jane are the product of an affair. Jane started an EA while she was pregnant with her second daughter. It turned PA sometime later. John is the OM. Jane divorced the BH. Jane and John are now married, live in a great house, and have added their own child (the 3rd daughter) to the mix. The BH has every other weekend visitation rights, so John, the OM, is basically now the father of all 3 girls. To John's credit, he seems to be a great father and husband, and I had no problem considering him my friend even though I knew of the origin of their relationship.

The difference now of course is that I have had my own gut-wrenching experience with infidelity. And when I think of John and Jane now, all I can think of is how much pain the BH went through. I have told my DW this, and she said that I should remember that the BH in that case is a "loser" and I'm not, so it's not the same. I told her that all I know is that right now I can't be friends with John now that I realize what it really means that he is an OM, and how much I despise that. I left it open that my feelings might change sometime in the future, but I'm not sure that they ever can.

What do you think? We don't have all that many friends, and John and Jane were probably our closest. Should we eliminate them from our lives just because they are the product of an affair? Also, I don't know if my W would ever acknowledge this, but I do wonder how much John and Jane's example influenced her own decision to have an A. I'm not BLAMING the A on them by any means, but it certainly doesn't make me feel like being friends with them.

Thanks for the advice,

NS

I wouldn't say that you would have to cut off all contact with them, but I wouldn't let my W hang out with Jane by herself. I wouldn't get too close to Jane either. At least John, while he was the OM, was never the WH, so I think that he is less likely to fool around with your wife. I would just keep a safe enough distance from them if I were you (not talk to them about your marriage, only hang out with them as couples, etc).

The BH was a loser, so that made it okay to cheat and break up a family. Look for some different friends.

IMVHO, both John AND Jane are suspect as friends who possess little integrity or honor.

That comment your wife made regarding Jane's BH being a LOSER is an excuse and also a perception Jane has created where she is excusing and justifying her betrayal of her husband and marriage.

"IF" the BH was a loser, then why didn't Jane divorce him before and without committing adultery first?

IMO, people who commit adultery (cheat on their spouses) certainly aren't considered "WINNERS". Maybe folks, including your wife, should start looking at it that way instead.

Just something to think about.

Jo

You may also want to start thinking about what kind of "advice" good friend Jane will offer your wife if you and she ever experience problems.

Its obvious Jane believes if you're unhappy in your marriage its perfectly fine to find someone else while married in order to exit the marriage union. EVEN when one is pregnant from their spouse. <gag>

I haven't even covered what kind of influence this couple can have on your children in terms of commitment and integrity.

Find new friends.

Jo

She had an affair, and the BH is a "loser??" WOW! hello?

For me, I choose to have friends who have similar values as me. I choose friends whom I can RESPECT as decent human beings with character. I would not have a cheater for a friend because I value loyalty and honesty. Someone who demonstrates a lack of loyalty and honesty in their own life will certainly demonstrate that same lack in our friendship if given a chance.

If Jane could betray her own H, she could certainly betray you and your W if it were expediant and justify it by calling you "losers." That ain't friend material to me.

Believer said what I was thinking....

Pep

A very hard decision. But I think I would have to distance myself somewhat from them also. For all of the reasons stated above.....what kind of influence are they going to be on your wife and your children in the future.

Everyone makes mistakes, but is that what Jane going to say to your wife if your wife shares something about your m, does she have an attitude that she would encourage infidelity or has she came full circle and would she willingly admit that she was wrong to cheat on her husband and everyone loses when it comes to adultery regardless if the couple divorces....there are no winners....everyone loses, some people dont realize that and sadly they are probably the ones that lost the most.

Pray for them sincerely. Do not associate closely with them.

Their continued sin and rebellion colors every part of who they are now. Until/unless they repent, you do not want them to influence your family, especially your children, but you and your wife as well.

NotSleeping:

Interesting question.

Some lousy answers. Some even worse than my golf game.

Are they good friends? Then decide if you want to associate with them. Jane had an A with John, got D'ed, Got M'ed and on with life.

No, not MB Rules. But John and Jane didn't come here. You did. You are trying to protect your M. And you are in the right spot to do it.

And if suddenly, I had to cut out every person in my life who had been touched by infidelity in thier existing and or previous relationships, I would exclude a very large percentage of people in my life. Starting with my mother, my brother, 1/4 of my cousins, the family that has cared for my child for 12 years, and a big chunk of my clients.

Remember, 50% of all marriages end in divorce. And more than 60% of all marriages are tainted with infidelity.

So, you limit yourself to a very small pool of potential friends after a short period of time.

And many churches would be even more empty if this rule was enforced.

So let me ask you this: If John had said to you while you were having beers in your backyard, that he had been in the car at 17 during a liquor store robbery, (Nobody got hurt) and had been arrested, and given probation, would you ask the same question, Could I be his friend now? "Yes, because that was long ago, and not the person that I know now. He made a mistake back then."

We all have an incredible capacity to forgive. (Ask my BS how much you have to have!) If we could not forgive, then every little trespass would result in another destroyed relationship and a smaller pool to choose from in the future. Did John and Jane make a mistake? Yes. Both with thier first relationships and Marriage partners. But that water has passed under the bridge long before. Are they making mistakes now? Don't know. Do You?

Not to say that if John and Jane were inappropriate with the two of you, either in advice or thier behaviors, you shouldn't terminate the relationship. You were OK with the reason behind the forming of thier R before your wife went Wayward. And now that you have been touched by an A you may want to minimize your R with them You can. You are entitled to do so.

And I am not advocating the looking of the other way for an active A, by friends or relatives. Expose the A.

And I know that this may be a contrary view. So be it. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

LG - I guess that is why I have very few friends. The problem I have about the whole scenario is that the female infidel is apparently claiming that all is okay, afterall her husband was a LOSER.

I'm not a real strong person, and find that I need friends that will give me a hand up, not make excuses for extremely poor behavior.

And I don't care what a wonderful father that John is, having an affair with a pregnant woman is just too icky for me.

Maybe, just maybe, if folks would start taking a stand and voicing their disdain for adultery instead of accepting it as "something that just happens cuz the stats tell us its that way" (aka complacency) maybe then people wouldn't feel so very comfortable in committing adultery, as though it were a simple change in their dance partner.

Just a thought.

When you lay down with dogs you will get fleas. These friends are not the type that you would want to rely on for advice or support at a time of crisis in your M. They are also not the type of people that you would want to leave your spouse alone with the opposite sex friend.

It has nothing to do with the scripture that LG likes to throw around at times. It has everything to do with using common sense with picking the friends in your life. And since LG wants to quote scripture...each and everytime this affair couple lays together they are committing adultery. That is straight from scripture.

Cutting off everyone in our lives that has been touched by an affair would be silly... since that would mean to also cut off the BS. But cutting the friends that happen to be in an affair marriage seems like a good idea. This is something they should both be ashamed of and yet somehow the friends in their lives know about it.
And for this FWW to call any BS a loser makes me feel that she still doesn't get it. Like he had it coming! If I were Notsleeping... I would be very worried that my FWW hasn't gotten her head out of her [censored] yet.

John and Jane ARE in an active affair LG. I also wold look for new friends. I would not count among my friends adulterors either. I believe in forgiveness but I also believe in repentance and I see none of that here.

What exactly is your criteria LG? Is it OK because they got married? Produced a child? The passage of 10 years? That's all a great comfort to the many BS's here on this site who believe affairs always end and are actively trying to break up affairs.

Until Jane is unhappy AGAIN and follows her MO of relying on adultery as a escape route to exit her marriage instead of working on it and her issues, or divorcing BEFORE she gets involved.

And who ultimately pays, LG? Mostly the children, but everyone else involved does too.

NS,

I think you've received some wonderful input from others regarding this situation.

To me, it's a matter of priorities. John and Jane may have kids the same ages as your children, but do they hold values similar to yours and your W's?

My dad always uses this example:

My parents dated in high school. They had many couple friends from their younger days who also ended up getting married around the same time frame.

Some of these friends chose not to let go of the lifestyle they had from high school. They continued to party, even after they had children. My parents went a different direction and made marriage and family values a priority. They joined a marriage group called Marriage Encounter and formed friendships within that social circle and those were the couples they chose to spend time with. They never completely cut off contact with the couples who led a different lifestyle, but they were no longer friends they chose to spend a great deal of their time with, as they had different priorities and values.

Every single couple from their high school group who chose the latter path is now divorced.

The friends from their marriage group are all still married and I don't believe that is a coincidence.

My parents have been friends with these couples for over 20 years now. I've observed with admiration the way this group of friends has stood by each other - celebrating in joy at the birth of each grandchild and support and advice while they make decisions about placing their own parents in nursing homes or traveling out of town to offer comfort and assistance to each other at times of loss.

Don't get me wrong, they still have fun together, but fun and what feels good at the time is not what they place as their HIGHEST value.

Just something to consider.

(OMG...please don't tell my dad I listen to him and am actually REPEATING and QUOTING his advice! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />)

I think the advice has all really been wise from a number perspectives.
As a former WS I feel perhaps the important thing here is exactly how you feel about it AND the attitude of the other couple to their previous actions.
Have they learned? Do they feel remorse?

You see while there are many reasons while one may cheat, there are NO excuses. It doesn't matter even if the ex wanted out as well .. wrong is still simply wrong.

Now if they say they regret their previous actions, perhaps you could put the friendship on hold until you feel comfortable again with them. But if not, well maybe its time to consider finding friends from another area or social group/church etc.

I have to wonder, did either of them know of your wifes affair and if so what did they advise? Perhaps thats the litmus test.

NS,

Your radar is on high alert for good reason regarding continuing your friendship with John and Jane.

Listen to it.

Aussieswife, that's a very good question. As far as I know, there is only one friend who my WW told during the A. I will be forever grateful to this friend and her H who counseled my W to immediately end the A, confess everything to me, and ask for my forgiveness. Of course, that's not how DDay eventually happened, but I will still forever appreciate that advice. It turns out that the friend was dealing with a BH at the time (an online EA), so as couples we have begun emailing all 4 of us occasionally with updates and for support.

If I found out that Jane or John knew and didn't counsel my WW to end the relationship, that would definitely be the end of the friendship, if it isn't over already.

NS

I think the day to day banter can be more destructive. And women are especially guilty. When men talk, they may advise each other to "kick her to the curb", but tend to stay out of others' business.

Women, on the other hand, seem to love to pick at each other's relationships, and add fuel to the fire.

I have been guilty of it, and even in my women's Bible study group, we catch ourselves doing it. In an affair case, you would give the right advice, but in the day to day stuff, we tend to support each other's outrages. This can be like chipping away at the foundation of a marriage, way before it is really in trouble.

Don't know if you can understand what I mean, but I believe a lot of the women here know EXACTLY what I am talking about.