Owl,

Maybe I stated my position incorrectly. It wasn't so much legalities in my instance as it was timing. See my EX WW was "choosing" to work out of town 14 dys per month (only 1 hour away but staying in a hotel room all the same), leaving the children with me when I got home from work. She was having an active affair with an old man she worked with whose resume could have not been worse for her in a court custody battle. She was being the typical narcissitic wayward. She was earning about 35% of my earnings. I was tucking the children into bed 65% of the time. And much more....that led to the timing never being better for me to seek full custody of the children.

Had I waited she could have quit the job, come home and pretended to care about saving our family and M, spent time with the children, pretended to dump the OM (who really hurt her case in court) and end the A, and more, only to file for D at a date when her case was better.

This is why I went ahead in lieu of the plan B I would have preferred to use.

Thanks for asking.

Owl, we are recommending that he go into Plan B, just after he gets all of his legal ducks in a row and files for D. But his first priority is to protect himself legally while sending the strongest message possible. He feels, and so I, that a D is what it will take to send that message. And she will still have an opportunity to stop the D if she chooses to make the neccesary changes and he is still interested.

Thanks Mel...again, I can see your point. And I can see how filing will give a WS the sense that you 'mean what you're saying' that a plan B letter might not give as clearly.

And I've got to admit that I didn't consider plan B in my case...I'd not heard about MB in my own crisis time, and it was when I started to talk to lawyers about D that my wife realized that I was REALLY serious about ending our marriage if she didn't take the steps she needed to. His wife might require that 'hard message' as well.

Hope and Mel-
Thanks for the clarification. Makes more sense to me now.

Some more background: I am not new to working on saving this marriage...I was on the divorcebusters web site since the start of the problems...tried 180s...some going dark...etc etc...

I came on here to get some second opinions and just to confirm what I have been thinking. I have already gained some very valuable insight here and appreciate it. I did not just make these decisions in the last day or two. I have been obviously thinking about all of this for awhile. I have worked a lot of these plans out with my counselor...while she is not Dr H she seems to subscribe to a lot of these same philosophies and I have been happy with her advice.

The reason I am going to choose plan D is I think if I start a plan B and play hardball with her now she may try to take custody of our son. I know she does have the fear that I will take our son away from her...but since I have been so accomodating and worked with her to allow her access whenever she wants it...even going out of my way for her to spend time with him she has felt comfortable abandoning us.

When we announced the news to my parents they did not take it well and lashed out...this scared the **** out of her and she was considering having our son come live with her because she got scared we would not let her see him...I calmed her down and kind of got my parents on board so that situation quieted. It may be manipulative but this is exactly how I want her to feel...because bar none the most important thing for me is to retain custody of my son. The marriage is secondary. It is by far in his best interest to remain with me.

I am hoping that she will not fight it...I have no idea how she is going to take it when I tell her I am filing for divorce and I want custody of our son. I do not think she will be happy about it. She is happy with the current arrangement and really does not want full custody right now as having a young child full time would put a major crimp in her lifestyle. I am not sure if this will changes when I mention plan D. I actually do not even want child support and will not go after it if she makes things simple and agreeable...if I have to fight then I will go after whatever I can get. I do think at this point with her abandonment, lifestyle, promiscuity issues I probably have a good chance in court even if she wants to fight. I would rather not fight because it will be expensive and the outcome is not guaranteed. I have made a lot of effort to put myself in the best position. I think now is the time to finalize some things...I realize she could wake up any time and change her mind...I think if the A with the OM ends that could wake her up...if I did a plan B and started using an intermediary that would definitely not go over well. Also she is still in a new job and still in the probationary period...while she seems to be doing well there anything could happen and I would rather be D before she loses the job. I want to strike while I am in an ideal position...when she is at her most blind.

For now I am going to continue to be the doormat...give her the ideal situation...whatever she wants...here is some cake...eat it. When plan D is final then I can make some changes. At least give it a final try or two to rescue the marriage...and then eventually just move on.

It is not easy...sometimes I do not know how I remain strong through all of this. It is such a messed up situation and many times I am very angry about all of this. It takes everything inside of me not to lash out at her. It just helps to post on here and other sites and talk to my counselor and a few close friends. Others say I should not be so nice. It is just a strange thing...when I spend time with my wife I still care about her very deeply and I can see she is very confused and I kind of feel sorry for her even while she is ripping out my heart and stomping on it. I still see glimpses of the women I fell in love with through her new alien exterior. I am really looking forward to having some things settled and have some closure in the situation so I do not feel like I am walking on egg shells and can fight back a little.

I like your plan

be sure you keep a journal/diary of appointments you keep for your son
as well as notations whenever WW comes for a visit
when she cancels
whatever ... enter the good with the bad
keep it honest

it will save your azz in court

Best Wishes

Pep

WOW... sounds strangely familiar......way too familiar.

Just some general journaling today...get some things out...

I saw my W last night for the first time in about a week...we met for dinner so she could see our S. I had not initiated any contact with her in the past week and she asked why...and said she figured I just wanted to pull away from her. I told her not really...I was just tired of always being the one who initiated things and figured if she wanted to talk to me she would email or call. I plan on sticking to that plan...if she wants to talk to me...if she wants to see S3 she can make the effort.

Anyway...it was a pleasant evening...no talk of anything of significance. She is still full steam ahead on her path of independence. The situation just seems so hopeless to me...and I really do not think the announcement that I am filing for divorce will shock her back or change her attitude in any way. She seems happy with the changes in her life...she likes playing the field and is eating up all of the attention she is receiving. She is still seeing her OM ~every other day but is also working on probably 6-10 other men that she emails back and forth daily. The men attention really seems to feed her and now that she has got a taste of it I cannot see her changing any time soon.

btw...when I first discovered/investigated the affair I went into deep PI mode...I have all of her passwords...and still have access to everything. I even have the OM passwords as he has used her computer. It is sort of funny...a complaint she always had about me is that I did not have a big social circle outside of her and my family and a few close friends yet her OM is far worse...in the few months I have had his account access the only person he has sent email to or received email from is my W. The only person he has called on his cell phone is my W, his father, and his roommate. When she met him he was basically a shut in...worked and then came home and smoked pot all evening...since meeting my W he has introduced her to some of his old friends but these are friends he has not seen in years...so basically he had shut everyone out of his life before meeting my W...why she does not realize he will not revert back to this in time is beyond me...she woke him up...but he will revert back to his old ways. Add to the fact the OM has a violent streak...I guess it has shown itself already a few times...on new years eve they were at a big party and my W was flirting uncontrollably...I guess OM nearly got in a fight with 2 or 3 people...W emailed him a long apology the next day...she is bird just released from her cage...he is her main man...etc...etc... It is so hard to sit idly by...I am afraid he will be physically abusive to her...she is already feeding him a lot of lies and hides all of her other male friends...she needs to be wary that passion and love can bring out strong emotions and her OM constantly tells her he is in love with her yet she never has said those words to him. I just know I never want this man around my son and when I file this will be something that I will fight for in the divorce if we fight. It is like watching a train wreck...makes me sad that there is nothing I can do to stop it. Even if our relationship is over it will be a happy day when she dumps this loser and moves on to someone else.

While at dinner last night...she found out I was taking S3 to Chuck E Cheese tonight and she asked to join us. Any suggestions on how I should act around her? Lately I have kind of just regained some of my swagger and am indifferent around her...no relationship talk...no sad faces...no tears...just try to project strength and confidence. Last night I did tell her I do miss her as we were departing but that was about it.

It is hard for me to see through her fog any way for us to be back together. The only way I see us back together at this point would be as one of her many partners...so she would basically be having an affair with me behind the OM back. She has kind of mentioned this in the past when we first separating but I have no desire to be with her except in an exclusive relationship and have made this clear to her. She positioned it as a way for us to reconnect and maybe get exclusive again but I see it as more cake eating. It is very hard to take that stance as I still desire her and any closeness like that is tempting (no sex in 3 months can play with a mans mind!)...If she aggressively pursued me I am not sure how I would handle it?

Any suggestions on how I should handle things tonight? I am obviously still fully enabling her...I do know I just need to proceed and finalize the divorce so I feel safe to cut her off.

SRTogacihC
Hey there. I tried to catch up a bit on your stitch & from what I can see...I think that you are on the right path now. Obviously Plan A wasn't working & Plan B would have really fueled the fire, which is certainly what you don't want.
Strength is something, huh? I still cannot believe that I have made it as long as I have. It's amazing how much one person can feel for another, even after everything.
Stay strong, keep yourself focused & stay in MB; it's been a great place for me to be!
Good luck. K

I have been on a few of these message boards and after reading so many situations and seeing so many good, caring, strong LBS I really hope my next relationship is with someone who is as committed and worthy as the people on here who go to great lengths to try and save their marriages. I feel like I am one of these people...I would have done anything for my W. Now I just need to find a partner who is also on this side of the fence.

Another thing I have gotten from these message boards is how sad it is that this is such a common problem. Why do so many people cheat? It is so unimaginable to me how one spouse can do this to another. I can never imagine myself doing this...I guess I have never put myself in the situation where I was very tempted and have never pursued. Sure I will look at other women and admire from a distance...but I see it much the same as looking at a nice car driving down the street...I can appreciate it but it does not mean I am going to steal it. I just can't imagine a situation where I would lie to my significant other like that...I would feel so guilty...I do not think I could live with myself. I understand that it can and does happen but why is it so common? It seemingly happens to otherwise good people.

bleh...I need to find someone that feels the same way. I know one thing I will be very selective if I get married again and will be extra cautious about getting involved with anyone who initiated or caused a divorce and will never marry someone who had a previous affair. (this is my current W 2nd marriage and her first ended exactly the same way...I ignored the red flag...duh)

You are sooo right about everyone up here on MB. I NEVER imagined in a million years that I would ever support someone as much as I have support my WH. If anyone had ever asked me what I would do in a situation like this...don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out is exactly what I would have responded with. You never know what you will do UNTIL you are in that situation. Amazing!

I so desperately would love for my WH to see exactly what he has before it is too late. I never imagined that I would have become such a "good" person. Don't get me wrong, not that I wasn't a "good" person before but after a strong Plan A I have made many improvements to myself, both inner & outer; makes me appreciate myself a lot more! I am certainly MB material now! AND I feel really good about that!

After everything that has happened & TRUST me there is so much more than what I have posted!...I have always told my WH that I never would wish upon him the pain that he has caused me; no matter what!...it's beyond the word "hate" as far as I can see & I "hate" the word "hate"!

With all of the people & the high percentage of A's out there, good luck with your search for someone. Sometimes your better pick would be someone who knows what it's like to have something like this done to them...then they would never think about doing it to someone else!

Were you the "one" your W left her 1st H for? Sorry you didn't see the flag. I too had the same red flag! Blind maybe? Who knows. I guess we think that we can change someone & that their leopard spots will fade! Doesn't happen, sad to say!

K

When I met my W she was in the process of divorce...she was having an affair with another man and that is what broke up her marriage. She then got involved with me and left her initial affair partner. I guess I believed all of her excuses...she was too young when she married (18)...he didn't do this for her...he didn't do that...they were too different...she just married him to escape her parents...but in the end it was all the same and I am sure she tells the others the same things about me. The sad thing was since then I have learned a lot more about her first husband...and he was a good man...a newspaper reporter...now has a stable marriage with a couple children.

In the end it was her that broke up both of her marriages for no good reasons. At least now she tells me she will never get married again and she kind of realizes internally that she has problems and cannot remain committed. She is likely addicted to that initial feeling of new love. Definitely has self esteem issues that are somewhat resolved by initial love and attraction. We definitely had a very passionate first year we were together we lived a couple hours away from each other and could only see each other on weekends...made our time together very intense. She was 23 when we met and I guess I bought her I was 18 excuse and just kind of thought I could change her and provide her a great life. Big mistake.

do a search on boarderline personality

see if anything rings true

BPD has various levels of functionality

Pep

I too was married very young to my 1st H; 17, 11 months later we had our 1st child. We were children ourselves, playing grownups! After a period of years, the 2nd child came along, by choice, but just b/c I didn't want an "only child"; I am one & it stinks BIG time!

Eight years later my XH was still plugging along on his family's farm & I was out in the "world". I guess the "world" caught up with me & I realized that I could no longer be a farmer's wife! He was working 7 days a week with a 1/2 day off every 3 weeks. No time for us & certainly no time for children. I have some regrets, but I have remained BEST friends with him & his new W, dinner at eachother's homes, children's birthday parties together, lots of "summer fun" with our new pool, etc. So I guess that makes up for some of my regrets! Who knows!

Your WW will at some point look back & have her own regrets, trust me. She may never admit them, as I still do not admit to my XH, but they are there, just buried amongst the rubble of our lives!

My wife just wrote me...the first time she has wrote me like this in a very long time...she is a very good creative writer...but only has written in the past when inspired by deep emotions whether happiness or being very troubled. How should I respond to this? She used to write me a lot when we were first courting and first married and then she wrote me some after the birth of our son.

I see this as some sort of sign and feel like I should do something? Basically her words mean to me that she is troubled by her choices and feels great guilt...not sure if she is making the right choices...troubled about who she is or has become.

I have wrote her far too much over the past few months and think it would probably be a mistake to dump my emotions and feelings on her...I think she knows how I feel. But I feel like she is looking for some response. I kind of feel me making less contact with her is having an effect...

Her writing:

Your memory haunts me.
The silence is deafening.
My bed that I have shared is now cold and empty.
What have you done?

At night I pray your face fades.
Your door still remains open.
My weakness has caused you pain.
How can I go on?

The night closes in.
I’m in to far and way too deep.
Whatever you want, I can’t give to you.
Will you decide to go?

No words can convey my feelings.
My touch tells a thousand words.
My soft kisses tell no lies.
Can you trust me?

Freedom tastes sweet.
Too much becomes bitter.
Time moves quickly.
Will I die alone?

Everything I touch turns to ash.
Clouds rush in, rain falls.
Cheeks are stained, eyes start to burn.
What am I worth?

L-o-v-e is a four letter word.
When told, my world shuts down.
No faith, numb, angry and over-rated.
Do you believe?

Your wife has some serious emotional issues.

I think that plan B/D with a very strong plan B letter with your stated boundaries (including NC, O&H, etc.) that clearly leaves the door open for her to come back if those boundaries are met might shake her from her fog.

If anything I might just answer her questions:

I have done nothing but love you and my son and fight for our family. I hope you respect that.

If you return we can work on this together and I will be here to help you every step of the way.

The decision is up to you. Do you choose to give up your destructive ways and live within the stated boundaries of marriage? I can't make that choice for you.

I cannot trust you now, but if you decide to work on our marriage and respect the boundaries of marriage, it can be built back up again.

It is your choice. I can tell you the destructive choices you have been making are leading you down that path. You don't have to.

You are worth whatever you choose to be worth. Do you choose to be a loving wife and mother, devoted to your family and God? It is your choice.

I believe in actions. If you love me you need to demonstrate it over time with your actions. I believe that I have demonstrated that to you.

Remember also D is not the end it part of the process. Don't get sucked in to short term fixes, you file for custody your file for divorce she may come back and we sweet but if things are fixed then they aren't fixed. YOu look out for yourself and your son, period. There is a difference between a wayward wife and a wife.

Get all your legal actions taken care of, do not communicate any of it to her. Don't give her a chance to react, if she thinks she has you passivified then so be it but you take your B/D plan and you work on it and get it in place and act on it. Let her find out by getting served.

Your fixing and taking care of yourself, that is the most important things, she will need to figure herself out and if she decided it means you then so be don't rescue her.

This is exactly what I was thinking...I could answer each of her questions with those type responses. It is sort of a modified plan B letter.

But for now I think I will just sit on it. Typically I would reply to her immediately. I think I will do a little 180 and ignore the email for a few days and let her wonder why I have not responded. I think distancing myself from her the past couple weeks is bringing some of this type stuff out of her...making her think about her actions...I want her to continue down that path. I have been far too available to her and she needs to start to understand some of the consequences of her actions. I am preceding with plan D/B.

Well here is a good one for you...I figured out what brought this on...troubles in fantasyland...she must be having troubles with OM...seems her flirting ways and stable of men must be giving him second thoughts...as she sent him a modified version...I think I would have much rather received his version...changes in bold:

Your memory haunts me.
The silence is deafening.
My bed that I have shared is now cold and empty.
What have I done?

At night I pray your face never fades.
Your door still remains closed.
My weakness has caused you pain.
How can I go on?

The night closes in.
I’m in to far and way to deep.
Whatever you want, I will give it to you.
Will you decide to stay?

No words can convey my feelings.
My touch tells a thousand words.
My soft kisses tell no lies.
Can you trust me?

Freedom tastes sweet.
Too much becomes bitter.
Time moves quickly.
Will I die alone?

Everything I touch turns to ash.
Clouds rush in, rain falls.
Cheeks are stained, eyes start to burn.
What am I worth?

L-o-v-e is a four letter word.
When told, my world shuts down.
No faith, numb, angry and over-rated.
Do you believe?

This kind of stuff kills anything I have left for her...bleh...

Why don't you send your version to him as well saying, "I wonder how many more of these she sent out."

She is definitely a cake-eater.