Longhorn...I understand and agree with everything you said. I am looking for advice... a plan of action to go forward with.

I am looking for the type advice you are giving. I realize this is not the be all end all and we are still on very shakey ground. Did not plan on starting a thread in the recovery forum...planned on starting a new thread here just because this is a significant change.

She is in bad withdrawal right now from OM...if he took her back she would cut me off in a second. She is very depressed right now...I dare to say almost suicidal.

The positives:
1) She has agreed to individual counseling (her own idea)...she has already made phone calls on her own and set up an appt.
2) She has asked for the divorce to stop...I have not agreed to stop the divorce yet...I need a lot more from her...like meeting the above things you mention.
3) She has said she wants to get rid of her myspace account...has not happened yet.
4) Talked about a lot of things she misses at home.
5) Has agreed to marriage counseling.
6) Read surviving an affair.
7) As for her new friends she said she just wants to disappear from them...no longer talk to them...not explain things...she just wants to come home.

The negatives:
1) She is in bad withdrawal from OM and is still trying to email him every day...also reading his old emails.
2) Last night she said a lot of things I obviously wanted to hear but she has yet to act on any of them. This would not be the first time she has said something and then changed 180 degrees the next day.
3) She is very very depressed right now...has been for probably a year...but it is definitely peaking right now. I think she is close to rock bottom...things are definitely caving in.

I knew my short message last night might get interpretted wrong...I was just tired and did not want to write many details last night. I do understand where I am at...and by no means do I think things are resolved...I am just hoping this is a turning point and a step in the right direction towards real recovery. I am reaching out for advice.

What my current plans are:
1) Speak to her...talk about no contact...talk about honesty
2) Insist on IC and MC
3) Cut off myspace
4) Invest in some sessions with the Harleys to get us pointed in the right direction
5) Talk about commitment and just getting started towards recovery.

This could all change tomorrow at this point...it would not be the first time...but I think moving her back and getting her in a NC mode would be a good start.

SRT,

Longhorn is giving you great advice and it appears that you are listening.

Not only is their to be NC if she comes home (NC of any sort, email, phone, et al) but what are the consequences if she comes home and starts cake eating again? Have you thought of that?

You WW has a lot of work to do to get back into your M and earn the title of FWW. She has done nothing yet but talk. Don't listen, instead watch what she does. Hold her accountable to what she does, not what she says.

Hang in there.

Some more encouraging news...

I had emailed her that we need to talk about some things before she moves back...I did not list any specifics because I figured I would rather do it in person or maybe with the Harleys or a MC.

She emailed me back and said:
I want to come back.
I am going to delete all emails, pictures, phone numbers, etc...of OM.
I will give you all of my logins/passwords...I have nothing to hide. email...myspace...phone...etc...whatever you want.
There are going to be times when I need space and I know I will not be lovey dovey at first but I think I will just need time.
We can use your IC for MC if you want. (I was shocked by this as we went together at first to see her and my W was very combative with her)
Behind the scenes she also seems to have cutoff contact with OM...cancelled the last future event they had planned together.

These are the most positive signs yet... So I am happy that at least it looks like we are going to give this a real try.

I figure next steps are to talk about NC, radical honesty, write up a NC letter to OM together, get her in IC, set up an appt with the Harleys. Just see where we go from there.

Kind of scary but I am hopeful.

OK...on the times that she "needs space"...YOU need some kind of accountability from her for those times to ensure that she's not backsliding into this or another affair.

Let her know that you can understand her need here...and that you need her to understand YOUR need for reassurance that she's not using this time to the detriment of your marriage.

Set up some serious boundaries here...with some serious well thought out consquences for crossing them. NC of course has to be high in there...and that means SHE can't contact HIM in any way either.

This very much does sound hopeful...PROCEED WITH CAUTIOUS ENTHUSIASM. Be ready to back off if it appears to be going sour.

We talked more about the space reference and that was more referring to around the house...she does not want a lot of affection right away...S may be a ways off...no touchy feely for awhile...I need to let her come to me. She may want time alone in the house to read or just be depressed. Typical stuff I think...and what I expected.

Again I realize this is all talk right now...but so far so good and at least she is saying the right things. Cautious enthusiasm is very true...just hard as this is the most positive news in a long while...hard not to be a little excited. I do understand there are going to be more downs and we are heading down a path that will require a lot of hard work and recovery but I am excited none the less.

SRT, if you hear nothing else of what anyone says out here, pay attention to what Hope said in that post.

With all due respect to your WW, talk is cheap. It's action that is important. Please note most of the things you listed as positives are things easily reestablished when she gets the urge. She can reconnect with those friends, establish a new myspace account, stop going to MC, etc., etc., in less time than it takes to say it. The one substantive thing I see there actually requires YOU to do something rather than her, and that's canceling the divorce petition.

FYI, (in the states I’ve researched) if she comes home and you two have SF, you have just committed an act your attorney will tell you is “condoning the adultery.” When that happens, any inappropriate acts you documented, all the evidence you gathered, etc., etc., would now irrelevant. Check with your attorney for legal advice, okay? I think a good, healthy attitude might be to wonder if she also knows this. Until her commitment is validated by significant action, I think suspicion (of the non-obsessive kind) is definitely in order.

(Also, you need to insist on an STD test before SF. Enough said on that.)

Until she's actually written a NC letter, you’ve verified NC, and she’s been an active, honest participant in a number of MC sessions, for instance, I'm not sure I'd do anything more than check with my attorney to see if the divorce could be put on hold for a while without prejudice to your position.

Again, I wish you all the luck in the world pardner, but my observation of the human species is that when one is tired, but must communicate, the words one uses are those in the forefront of one's mind. The words you selected for your quick, short post worry me because they indicated a willingness to accept your WW’s new attitude on face value. I think you must always guard against treating your WW like the loving wife you remember from previous years, and the wife you want her to be. You just can’t do that yet, pardner.

Frankly, I would be a little suspicious about a hidden agenda until it's clear your WW is truly committing to your marriage. That she is depressed about OM leaving her isn't a good enough reason to welcome her back, IMHO.

Now...her apparent willingness to agree to radical honesty, transparency, etc., sounds good, but when you’re negotiating it all via email, I still wonder. That seems so impersonal…or perhaps not. Perhaps it’s a mechanism you two can use to talk about intensely personal, highly emotional concepts and still keep them remote enough to be able to discuss them. If so, it’s useful.

Perhaps I rely too much on watching a person’s eyes, their facial expressions, and body language. On the other hand, wouldn’t you like to see if there are any shadows in your WW’s eyes when she says it’s all over between her and OM?

Anyway, save all these emails in a safe place.

Friend, I’d take it very slow and feel your way back into this, inch by inch. Suspend, rather than cancel the divorce if you can do it without hurting your case (check with your attorney for legal implications ASAP), and demand (courteously, of course) substantive actions from WW until you’re sure she’s committing to you and your son.

Be strong, SRT. There is a ton of work left to do, but you can do it.

News of the day...

W has asked to start moving back this weekend. She is very depressed...heartbroken (I know the feeling). She has deleted her myspace account and deleted all of their email correspondences...which I see as good first steps. We have talked about NC. We need to talk about it some more. We talked some about the grieving process and withdrawal and what she should expect to go through for the next little while.

My plan right now is to just back off a little (but watch) and let her get started on the withdrawal process. Try to get her started on IC. She does not seem emotionally ready to take on many other challenges right now.

I don't know? Maybe this is wrong...maybe I should put the pressure on or not be so available when she is at her lowest but it really goes against my nature and honestly I am very fearful to put too much on her right now...she is severely depressed. I think the best thing for her would be to get into IC and start working on her issues and let someone impartial work with her.

Can anyone offer any advice for these first couple rough weeks. I understand NC is an absolute must and that is my main focus right now...I need her to delete him out of her life.

NC letter and complete openness and honesty are a PREREQUISITE for her moving back in. She doesn't get to move back in without them. You are in charge, and don't back down from your marital boundaries. If you keep her out of the house for a few extra weeks until she agrees to them, so be it. Expect no affection or getting your needs met for six months. The affair is on life support. Don't get weak now. Finish it off.

We are going out to dinner tonight. I have written out a list of notes to talk about certain points.

I think I will shortly have a FWW...she seems very serious. I really did not believe this would happen and I am a little scared about the situation. We have a lot of hurdles in front of us but at least I think now we are actually running the race. I think she is going to be willing to agree to anything. We have been talking all day and she has done a lot of convincing...actions speak louder than words but I know my wife and she is not putting on a show.

They aren't a FWW until they've earned there stripes. Recovery is VERY difficult. Expect nothing from your W for at least 6 months. Continue with Plan A and make your plan A changes permanent. Keep us posted!

Update...need some advice.

Well Friday I had met with wife and we ended up spending the weekend together...she was still kind of all over the map. So I told her I was not ready to commit to her moving back. We had a mostly good weekend...she was very depressed over the OM situation. She went home Sunday...

She called Monday evening late...told me she had thought and thought about it and was ready to come home and try. Asked to move back Tuesday. She had a lot of positive good things to say...really dumped out a lot of emotion. So I decided I was ready to try.

She came back yesterday. She is in kind of bad shape in regards to OM and is in bad withdrawal. Still obviously pining for him. I am pretty certain she is not currently in contact with him. He wrote her a letter to stay away from him.

She is currently in this state where she does not want to talk about much of anything. Does not seem mad at me or anything...just depressed...not sure what to do. We are moving some of her stuff to the house but I am not going to get a moving truck or anything yet...just moving small stuff. In case I want her back out. I have not stopped the divorce.

She is going out of town this weekend to visit family in Florida...long planned trip. And then the next week she is in NY for a few days on business. I basically plan to lay low until then...just kind of plan A...be positive...let her get started on withdrawal. Confirm NC.

When she gets back from NY...I plan on MC and IC for her. She wants both of these things. I have made few demands on her and I told her we can leave it in the hands of the MC to suggest to us what to do. I need to talk to my IC to suggest a good MC...any MC worth anything should force some changes that I need and want. Will also schedule an appt with the Harleys.

So anyway I guess I am happy to have her back...a lot nervous about it. I do not trust her...one minute things seem great the next I feel doubt.

So anyway hopefully taking the first baby steps towards recovery.

Just to let you know how recovery works, my WW didn't want anything to do with me for about 2 months after her A. It is over six months after her A is over and she's finally wearing her ring again and saying ILY regularly. It is a long and painful process.

Sounds good. I would get her to talk to the Harleys right away. Most WS's really like them, and feel understood.

I would support her and try to help her. When my ex wanted to come back one time, he told me he would need support getting over the OW, and I told him to forget it - he got himself into the mess, he could get himself out. Needless to say, we are divorced.

It is moving much more rapidly than I expected. First few days home last week she was distant...depressed...obviously not sure she was doing the right thing. Towards the end of the week she started becoming a little more friendly...communicating more...being positive about the future.

She was out of town this weekend to Florida to see family and just relax and she must have called me 10 times a day just to talk...tell me how much she is missing me...apologizing...telling me how optimistic she is...how happy she is feeling that we are getting back together. Telling me that everyone she is with is sick of hearing about what a great guy I am...because that is all she can talk about.

I really did not expect this so quickly. I had kind of tempered my enthusiam internally because I want to be ready for the long road back and I have seen her over the past 8 months change her mind and story every hour. Up until the last week she always said she was not in love with me any more. She has still not said she loves me but I can see that coming very soon and if she says those three words that will be a big step for her. Outwardly I have always tried to be positive with her and maintain a never say die attitude but internally I had a lot of doubts. It is sort of overwhelming to be getting this sort of attention and positive vibes from her, has made me sort of reset my expectations and I now am starting to have a lot of true hope.

Well anyway...my plans have not changed much. We will do IC and MC...meet with Harleys. I know we still have a lot of work in front of us but I do have real hope now that we are going to get through this and be truly married and have a far better marriage in the end.

It is amazing to me how quickly things can change. The challenge is to now face some of the problems that got us in this mess in the first place. The goal is to make some permanent changes and affair proof the marriage. I do not want to go through this again and I do want us to both be happily married and happy about our lives.

It is a good day...beginning of a new day.

Well...I was probably more hopeful than I should have been. Still a long way to go. NC is not going so well as she is still emailing/texting him. Just hi how are you doing type stuff but we all understand what that will lead too and even if it does not come to that it will still keep her in the withdrawal state. He has been far more distant in his replies saying things like I hope you have a good life and whats done is done...but he does leave the door cracked and I know this must stop.

We started reading Surviving an Affair together...and we are flippin Jon and Sue...you could just replace the names. We are just getting to chapter 5 ending the affair. After she returns from her trip this weekend I am going to push hard on NC and a NC letter and basically everything. Going to set up a MC with this site. If she will not agree to NC I am going to get her out of my house...it is too painful and I know we will be quickly back in a state where she is lying and sneaking off again. At least she has been honest about contact...leaving out some of the details of what she is writing but at least telling me it is happening...I guess that is a start and I do not LB and remain calm and just tell her thanks for her honesty. But we really need to get to a point where she can go longer than 24 hours NC.

After all of the positive phone calls and words this weekend when she got home she was very distant again...is obviously still deep in withdrawal and it really has not gotten anywhere yet because of the continued contact.

You are right on this my friend.

She is an addict. Prevent her from getting her fix. Block his email address. Turn off her TM capability. Change her number, and delete every trace of his email and phone number.

You are absolutely correct but I want her to agree to do that together so I will wait until next week. The problem as I see it is I can do everything like that but I can't watch her 100% of the time...I can't watch her when she is at work. I am hoping a few sessions with the counselors from here will give her the strength. She has to want to fight it because as hard as I try I cannot stop it by myself.

In my situation (and you can tell NC was broken quite a bit), I watched her like a hawk, and called her out every time NC was broken. I made no bones about checking up on her, and I searched her purse, checked her phone and email, installed a keylogger, watched her bank transactions, everything. Every time she contacted him, I called her out on it and told her I wasn't going to allow it as long as she was in my house. Don't let her think she is getting away with anything. If it is easy to break NC, she will do it. Make it so it is not worth her while or the effort because she does not want to get caught.

I definitely plan on taking a hard line stance and I am hoping the counselor will make the suggestions and lay it out just like in the Surviving an Affair book. It will be good for her to hear it from someone else...I guess I do not want to be seen as the bad guy or being unreasonable. But in the end I do not mind that either...I am fighting for my marriage and my family...maybe one day she will respect that.

She does not know all I see right now...I wish I could tell her all I know about the OM because I had all of his PWs (since changed)...her feelings for him might be less if she knew all he was doing behind her back but I am afraid it might backfire and she would be pissed that I invaded their privacy and it would also expose that I have monitored her. It will be kind of a negative if/when she hands over all of her passwords because if she is going to continue to contact him she will use other means that I likely can't monitor. Though I guess we will need to move out of secret mode and get out in the open so I can call her on it if she is contacting OM.

I am pretty confident we can get past the OM and eventually put him in the past. My next concern is winning her love back and getting her to have some sort of feelings for me. What she seems to want right now...wild crazy bad boy...tattoos...rocker...social superstar...million friends...is just not me at this point in my life...I like being a father and a family man...I do not mind getting a little crazy every so often but that is just not me any longer. I did those things when you are supposed to from 16-25. Now I am a dad. So even if we can keep OM permanently out of the picture...I am afraid of the next OM. She is a very attractive woman and it is like she just realized that...she is going to receive attention from OM...I hate the thought of never being able to trust her. The sad thing is she had it so good...I did trust her...I did not mind her going out...she just could not cross the line she crossed...so now we are at this ugly point in our lives.

It is going to be difficult to keep making love deposits without receiving anything in return but I am pretty certain I can do that for a pretty long time. I just hope I eventually see some signs and it gets better, it will give me strength. I also need to find some sort of social outlet for her/for us...we need enjoyable friends who are married and half way responsible but still fun.