Hi Pep,

I really have not set any boundaries beyond "she cannot see, talk or meet up with OW", basically NC. But she's still in the same company, she still meets up with OW. All the times I've known about her meeting the OW has been by me being aggressive/angry and she telling me out of fear that I will do something to ruin her career or something. I'm guessing what I've heard so far from her is just the tip of the iceberg, though she has insisted there is nothing else she is wihholding (yeah right!). Its not easy to catch her meeting OW, for each time I do discover her doing it, there are probably 3 other occassions I don't know about.

So I may have boundaries with an associated 'punishment' (for lack of a better word), but I won't really be able to effectively ir; I was thinking about plan B, but is it too early for that?

you don't understand boundaries

a boundary is what YOU will do to protect yourself

think about that

not trying to control someone else ... but what YOU WILL DO in order to be safe from harm

Pep

Good idea. But she can block it with me listening in, then call and unblock it when I'm not. So it all boils down to HER wanting the NC.


Good one. Will keep this in mind. But I keep getting pissed off when I see her saying maybe a divorce is better, with a smirk on her face!


Do 'negative feelings' usually surface after witthdrawal btw the WS and the OP? My wife is the cheerful, no enemies kind of person. She says she does not get angry at people usually, but when she does, she usually cuts them off. And that now, she's really angry with me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

She is still on good terms with OW, despite her saying that she knows it will never work out, it was just conversation, blah blah blah.


I do too. Thanks SD!

First of all, Cingular does not have the ability to block incoming calls (trust me, I've tried). Secondly, even if they did, YOU should be calling to have it blocked, not her. Get into her email and block OW address. If she calls OW, delete OW's contact info and call your provider and change her number. YOU take the initiative, not try and force her to do it.

Hi Pep,

OK lemme take a stab at this one. What I will do to protect MYSELF. I guess I've never seen it that I needed 'protection'. But after thinking about it, yes, protect myself against being hurt and angry every time I find out she has been in contact with the OW. But what can I do about that? She will do what she wants to do. I can plan B her, but in her state of mind ("I'm so ready to sign the divorce papers") I think that would be counter-productive.

Is this what you mean? Sorry, brain a bit slow this morning cause I'm not used to waking up so early and going to the gym! lol!

Hi Jim!

I CAN'T call to have it blocked because the line belongs to HER, its not a sub line from my own. She is the main and ONLY line holder and only she can authorize the telco to do anything to her line.

There has not been any contact via email, at least, not on her non-work email. I can't get into her work email cause I don't know the password and I can't log in to install a keylogger in that. I can only force her to open the emails in front of me and see if there are any emails. Right now she is real careful about that after I did that the last time and found out about her calling the OW.

At this point, she doesn't need to email the OW -they see each other at work. They probably sneak out during the day to meet up -I wouldn't be in the least surprised. They will probably resort to the emails when she leaves the company and daily contact is harder (but not impossible. They are both in sales, and are out of the office ALL the time).

Small update: WS called me and said her boss has asked her to backdate her resignation to last week, when I first exposed to the company. I thought she was asking me help or suggestion on what to do next. I told her that since she has not officially resigned, the company cannot ask her to backdate the resignation which would result in her getting less money, as well as complicate matters with her future employer, who will be making the job offer tomorrow.

She then asked me "Did you write or call my manager and say anything to her?" Geez... she actually called me to ask me that cause she was worried that I had indeed done somethign to make her boss want to backdate the resignation. I said no and told her I would speak to her tonight.

Need you guys to advise me, as I want to try and talk to her tonight. See if my approach is correct, or if I should even bother.

I will begin by saying I'm sorry for blowing my top the other day. I will tell her that her continued contact with the OW is a problem for me, but an even greater problem is that she lies about it and for me to find out about it later.

I will say that I still want to work on the marriage, and ask her to be honest with herself and me on whether she wants to continue the relationship with the OW. Or whether she still thinks that they can remain friends, despite all that has happened. I will tell her to put the marriage aside for the time being, and consider if she will maintain NC with the OW in order to stop the A.

If she says she feels that she and the OW can still be friends, or that she wants to continue the A, then I will go to plan B. I will tell her that in that case, she needs to find somewhere else to stay, as I cannot stay with her while she is committed somewhere else.

If she says she wants the A to end, and that she believes NC is important, then we can work on establishing NC together. How do I get her to agree to total honesty and transparency after all the threats I've made earlier?

Am I ready for plan B?

No u r not ready for plan B and STOP apologizing to a WS.

You really shouldn't say much right now. She isn't listening and when she does it is to pick up apart.

So get wise and make a plan. One that is good for you.

Remember you can't control or teach a WS anything but you can make them stop and 'wonder'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Hi Orchid,

Can you give me any clues as to this 'plan' you're talking about. Cause it seems like I'm just going off in every direction and I don't know what to do.

I just sat her down and we discussed on the situation, me telling her I want her to be honest with me, and all that stuff. She told me she had made up her mind on a separation, and that she was a little afraid that I would hurt her physically because of my temper sometimes.

I said that she should give this more thought and that she was not in the state of mind to decide on something like that. She is all for a divorce, but her friend and her mother has told her not to mention that to me cause they are afraid that I would hurt her physically <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

She says she knows that I wuldn't hurt her, but that sometimes she still gets scared when I lose my temper.

Anyway, she has got a month starting from early Feb to the time she starts her new job in March, so she said she would willingly go back to her mother's place for that 3 weeks or so. And that the time apart would be good for the both of us to let us both calm down and take a deep breath. I said I agreed that time apart would be good. She's really concerned about the new job, and want a "total fresh start". She made me promise that I would not jeapordise her career at the new place, IF I was sure the OW had nothing to do with our marriage situation by then. And I agreed.

She mentioned that she is still really resentful about the exposure to her management. She isn't the kind of person to get resentful, or even shout back in an argument, but she will take definitive action to distance herself from that person (which happens to be me). I told her I was still committed to making this marriage work, and that what she said and felt right now was the exact of what many FWS's had posted about it also. I offered to let her read some of their stories, on how they greatly regretted their actions, and how some of them had divorced and regret their decision. She said MB was poisoning my mind...lol

Anyway, what should I do now guys?? I'm really lost... Plan A her like crazy until the time she leaves to go back for the 3 weeks?

Don't let her make a choice between OW and you. Don't ask her about her intentions w/ OW. Just let her know that she is not welcome as long as you are M. As far as separation, I don't think that is a good thing. Let her know that you would like her to stay, but you won't keep her from going. Plan A the ****** out of her before and after she leaves. Let her know how much you want her. Really fill her EN for admiration. Other than that, just be patient and keep on Plan Aing. Put boundaries and safeguard in place to keep her from contacting OW. Right now your plan should be this. Plan A the he11 out of your WW, and do everything possible to help her maintain NC. Rarely ever do WSs get NC right the first try, but just keep enforcing your boundaries. Things will improve. It just takes patience.

I didn't ask her to choose. I asked her to give me an honest answer:

1. If out M were not in the picture, she would choose NOT to continue the A, but still think they can be friends

2. If the M is in the picture, then NC is needed


I'm afraid her mind is set on going back to her parent's place for 2-3 weeks in February. Her mother has actually asked her to go back, worried that I'll do something to her precious daughter (paranoid mother). I will start the plan A again, but if I really want to avoid and talk on M or R, then it means I can't even ask her about whether she is still talking to the OW (which is how I found out about virtually ALL the contacts). Monitoring emails on the sly is no use (IMHO) cause when she's at her mum's place, the OW is just a phone call away, and I will never know. There is also no way that I can block her cell phone, as its registered to her. So I have to 'trust' her to trust herself NOT to break NC without me there. Even when I'm there, she still did it, so I don't have much hope of her being able to keep NC all on her own. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


No way to put boundaries when she's away. Hard enough as it is now. She never admits to talking to OW until I catch her at a lie, so she just deny, deny, deny. And pressing for her to tell me her whereabouts is also hard. She's always been mildly cooperative, but just now she said indignantly "Why shoudl I report my activities to you??". She just ignores me now when I ask her a question she doesn't want to answer. Only way is to LB and threaten her with someting, but that is getting old and doesn't work anymore (and yes, nor should that be the way anyway).

Please give more suggestions guys! Right now the friends she's telling this to are:

1. A single, carefree, happy-go-lucky friend who has NEVER been in a relationship
2. A friend that has JUST broken up with HER boyfriend -she says she can find a place together with her if things sour btw us
3. A friend who was an OW for many years with a much older guy and who is now hanging on to a rich boyfriend knowing that he's not the one for her

And of course a mother who was the BS who never had any closure who tells her its ok to divorce and if things get tough, to drive back to her place and leave me here to pay the rent. WTF?!

Update:
Last night was ok. No LB from either one.. just sat with her and watched TV. We both went to bed late. This morning I guess we were both..errr, "in the mood" and after everything was over, she suddenly yelled at me "WHAT?? What if I get pregnant?? What are we going to do then??"

I was like WTF did you expect to happen then??

From then it went downhill. She said that yesterday the OW's car had apparently got a tire slashed on the side, and she had to go change it. Now, because I work at the place where the OW does customer visits, my WS said that her manager and general manager now suspects ME of doing it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

While the thought of doing it HAD crossed my mind, I didn't do it and told my WS so. Anyway, she said she told the OW last week that I had told her I felt like doing it and I said why did she do that for? Now whether or not I did it, the OW is going to blame me if ANYTHING happens to her car. I accused her of still protecting her "lover" and that things said btw husband and wife should remain btw husband and wife etc. She said she didn't care anymore and said that she is "trying" not to see the OW, and if I was not happy with that, then too bad.

She keeps telling me that she "has paid her dues" and that she doesn't know what more she could do. If I was not happy, then too bad.

Things are getting out of hand. We are in a downward spiral and I don't even know how to stop it and take a breather, much less reverse it. She is going out tonight with a friend (the one who just broke up) and I'm left alone again. She doesn't see the need to spend time at home, and she is sick of the arguments. But how can we NOT argue when I know she is still in contact with the OW? She says they are just friends now, nothing more. I said things went downhill the minute we got back and she started contacting the OW again, and will remain this way as long as she's in contact with her. She says "whatever".

I've just contacted a lawyer friend of mine and asked him for some legal advise on getting a divorce. If she continues contact with OW, even when she's on the 3 week break starting from next week, then I already know what her answer is going to be when she comes back.

Read my post again. You can't teach or preach to a WS. They don't listen to reason.

Notice how she doubts and taunts you when you make an effort?

Why waste your time an energy trying to fix a WS?

I say, plan A your spouse but plan B the WS. This means once you have made your plan A self improvements, you no longer have to put up with the WS.

As for her trumped up charges of you hurting her, that's her way to give her a free guilt trip to have an A. Yea,..... in her warped mind, she needs you t/b guilty of whatever so she can justify the A.

Best you put her out on your schedule, not her's. Do NOT accomdate a WS attitude.

Read up on Love must be Tough by Dr. James Dobson. His method works well with plan B. Practice in front of a mirror on how to reverse babble so you can give her back her guilt.

L.

Yeah, futile and I don't know why I'm still so stupid to try...


Thanks Orchid. I called up her 'big brother' whom she has not told yet but who will be talking to her a lot when she goes back to her parent's place next week. I told him the entire story... 1 hour of long-distance calls.. my phone bill is going to kill me next month..lol

Anyway, I told him I wanted him to hear my side of the story, because he was bound to get her edited, fogged-up version. He understands the situation and will try to see if he can influence her to end all contact with the OW. At this point, I think the way to go is to end the A. Exposure has not worked all that well, so lets see if her friends and being physically away can help cut some of the attachment when she's away.

I will plan A her starting from today until the day she leaves. I will not ask her about whether she met up with OW, I will NOT mention a thing about the R or M.. As much as I want to find out if she's seeing the OW or not, at this point there's little I can do about it even if she is.

L. [/quote]

Just got off the phone with my mum. She wasn't really happy to hear that I was home alone again. I filled her in on this week's happenings and for the first time I detected a bit of anger when I told her that the WW is continuing to talk to the OW, and that she's become colder and has been throwing the D word around more liberally.

She said "Well, if she doesn't respect us (the family) and do this, then there's really nothng we can do about it". I told her that I was fine, and that I was going to get some legal advise on the D, just in case it happens. She was not happy that it has come to this, and said she'd continue praying for us and that the WS would realize what she was doing.

Anyway, she's still not back yet. Went to a jazz club with a friend and will probably be back past midnight. Oh well, I may as well get used to being alone for now. At least I still have you guys! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Is there a reason that you and your wife don't go out together?

Also, please take some kind of precautions for birth control. You don't want to bring a child into this right now.

I agree with you completely. It was stupid for the both of us to let it carry on so far, esp without any precautions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Well, basically she has her friends and I have mine. We don't really have many close mutual friends here in the city, so she'd pretty much hung out with her best friend at the gym while most of the time I would be at home on the PC, or out with some of my friends. We would occassionally hang out with some mutual friends, but not often. When she had no plans (usually gym) we would usually just go out for dinner after work together, maybe 3-4 times a week. Of course this was pre-A.

Post-A, her best friend doesn't like me very much, so they go to the gym and have dinner about 2-3 times a week. I don't join cause I don't go to the same gym (when I go at all!). Tonight she said she wanted to have a talk and cheer up this friend who just broke up with her bf, so I didn't join in.

Other times when we both are at home, she would be glued to the TV, and I would be in the room on the PC. I try joining her more these days, but she's doing her own stuff, and her friends (not OW) are calling her more often and they chat for 45mins to an hour so we don't have quality time anyway.

Well, she came home at 3am last night. Out with her 'rcently single' friend. They were in the jazz bar and she wouldn't have come home had I not called and said its 2.30 in the morning and it was getting kind of ridiculous. Could hear the band in the background, so at least I know she wasn't lying about that. She said the OW was not with them. OK.

Met up with an old friend for breakfast that extended to lunch. She's gone out for a spa appointment, and will need to probably pick her up later.

How do you guys keep your sanity and plan A like crazy when all you want to do is to grill her about whether she has been in contact with the OW, what was said, etc??

I was angry last night when she walked in, but tried to act sleepy and this morning just kissed her good morning before I left. No arguments about her coming home late.

Oh yeah, WS mentioned something last night about going to Egeypt with her best friend and her family for a week or so when she's on her 3 week 'break'. She said "you want me not to contact OW, rigth? Well, if I'm there you can be sure I won't!"

I'm not too happy about that idea, not sure if its just talk or if she is seriously considering it. Should I be ambivalent about it, or discourage her from going?