Hi noodle,

The threat was made in anger, and partly to reinforce my 'position' and resolve to the WS. It was a mistake to threaten her, I know.

However, I *have* already exposed the A to her family, management and OW's parents. I believe the A is over, well, mostly over. Whats left is a desire to remain friends which is a poor excuse for WS to get her 'fix' whether she knows it or not. After the first round of exposure, both WS and OW know I'm dead serious and I mean business. But WS stills has this notion that thet could be friends, which I'm trying to eliminate.

I'm going to say something contrary to MB principles and that is I really believe that the A is over and that once WS changes jobs, the lack of everyday contact at work may serve to sever any remaining attachment to the OW. We do not live in the US where we can pack up and move to another state, but we live in a very small country where our jobs are firmly entrenched in the city. While I would certainly love to have WS have "no contact for life" with that biaach, it is just not possible in our case. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Currently they have casual contact at work, and while I do not like it and it IS certainly slowing down recovery, exposure and ruining her career in her new job even before she starts is not a solution either. Exposure to end the A is one thing, but doing this is really an act of pure vengeance with nothing gained but a definite serving of divorce papers. Of that I'm sure. Please feel free to comment, 2x4s if necessary <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Dev01, I do not want to appear critical, but it seems to me that AO's, LB's and DJ's are a recurring theme in your posts. I don't think your situation is that bad when compared to others on this board.

Think about this. Your WW is starting a new job in a new office. She meets a male co-worker who becomes friends with her, listens to her, tells her how wonderful she is, tells her how lucky you are to have her. All the things you should be telling her. She starts an EA with this guy which becomes PA. There is another benefit to this as the OM does not know about the OW. She could therefore, continue her relationship with the OW free of constraints by you.

Just a possible scenario you might want to think about.

Hi bendover49,

Thanks for your comments. I do appreciate it, 2x4s are also welcome! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You do have a point about that. But I'm not sure what you're point it. Is it:

1. "There is another benefit to this as the OM does not know about the OW"

Are you advocating that I expose to her new workplace even before she starts work there? And her new company is composed of all ladies as well, a small company with the occassional visitor from the overseas office who may be male. Anyway, I can't keep exposing her to every workplace she goes to when there is no evidence of an ONGOING affair, can I? Not clear on what you're telling me, please clarify? Thanks

2. "All the things you should be telling her"

So I should continue the Plan A. How about her contact with OW? I guess I threatened because I know of no other way to make her stop contacting her (not that my way is working...lol.) What do you suggest?

I'm saying that a benefit of a new relationship with an OM would allow her to continue her friendship with the OW as the OM would know nothing about the previous relationship.
Of course you know about the OW, but you would be out of the picture.

I can't really tell you how to persue your relationship with your WW except to be more understanding, and listen more without the AO's, DJ's, and LB's

No, you don't have to like the continued contact with the OW, and you can say that it really makes you feel bad when she does it. But your anger is sure not stopping her.

Its like I have been thrown into the deep end of the pool with my WS and have been trying to teach myself to swim, breathe and to try and keep my WS from drowning, all at the same time. I keep telling my WS to start kicking to help us stay afloat, she nods, but stays still, leaving all the work to me. Sometimes I think we're moving slowly to shore, then realize I'm dreaming -we're barely staying afloat. And that's discouraging.


I have changed so much in such a short time. That is a fact. I never thought I would have it in me to go the distance, and yet, I have lasted this long. I guess sometimes I think of how much further I have to go still, and it makes me tired and depressed.

I'm scratching my head.



Unless I have my timeline all jumbled, you've "caught" them talking again, haven't you?

You made the threat (stated the boundary). Are you going to follow through? Or, is there some other definition of "next time I catch you.." that you meant?


You caught them and didn't follow through. Maybe she doesn't believe you, either.

Look, I'm not pushing you to make good on your threat if you don't think it's a good idea. You just have to cut out one of two things. 1.) Either don't make idle threats about exposing when you really don't want to and don't mean it anyway ~OR~ 2.) Do what you say you're going to do, when you say you're going to do it, how you said you'd do it.

Mix and match doesn't work well with that sort of thing.

Mys

Hi Mys,

Let me put things more into perspective. I know it is confusing to follow at times, even *I* have a problem understanding this...lol

Basically WS is leaving the job on the 15th of Feb. Until then, she still works at the company, and part of the job involves contact with OW. So, before the 15th of Feb, it is not possible for her to have NC yet. However, right now she is working from home and will not be going into the office except on the last day when she has to return company stuff, such as her notebook etc. But by then, OW will be out of the country on conference. Hence, Monday was the last time she would 'officially' have contact with the OW.

I can't really tell you WHY I was mad when I 'caught' her talking to OW on Saturday. So, me 'catching' her talking to the OW and then threatening was made out of anger and it was wrong (and stupid I know). I already knew then that it was not possible for her to have NC as long as they were still going to me meeting each other at the workplace. I guess I was just angry and allowed myself to get upset.

My boundaries are clearer now. I have told her as much that I will not be part in a 3-way marriage. How I am going to enforce or react should my boundary be crossed is another thing. But I agree with what you said:


I *am* mixing and matching 1 & 2. Thanks for pointing that out.

Update of the week: Since my post from Monday til now, we have been going along as 'normal', no fights or quarrels, no bringing up M or R so things have been pretty much status quo.

She asked me about a week and a half ago what she could do to make me stop suspecting her? It was said more in annoyance than with sincerity. She said "Maybe I could bar the OW's number from my phone?". But that's not possible, unless she makes a police report that someone is harassing her from that number and gets the telco to bar it. So anyway, I dropped the subject and didn't bring it up until today.

The past week she's been to the office a few times, before her last day at work. She told me she's had lunch with OW (in a group) but has also worked with OW on finalizing her hand-over to her. This is all the contact that I know of, in addition to phone calls "to discuss about work". Apart from that, I've asked her to account for her whereabouts but didn't really check (I'm tired). OW and the rest of the company are flying off for almost a week for an overseas conference on Sunday, and when they get back, it will be the last day for my WS to be attached at the company.

Tonight I reminded her about her offer to make me feel more at ease, saying I wanted her to subscribe to the itemized billing function. She was clearly unhappy with that, and said she would call another day. I said why not call now and she said cause she doesn't like it and I can't make her call up if she doesn't want to. I asked her if it was because she had something to hide, and she said no, but if i was so unhappy about it then we could get a D.

I didn't get angry, but I kept quiet. She then asked me if I was getting "psycho again". I replied that it was always my fault and that she still wasn't taking any responsibility for what she did. After a minute of silence she asked me what I meant by that.

I told her that whether she realizes it or not, I was giving her a second chance. A second chance to realize and see what she has done and to DO something about it to make things right. But instead of that, all she has was pride and sarcasm, maybe to push the blame to me so that she can look at herself in the mirror every morning? I then told her that if she still thought of herself as a Christian, did she know that God only allowed divorce in cases of adultery and that it was a hateful thing to Him? Instead of trying to do the right thing, she was just avoiding it and pushing blame again.

She asked me what I meant by me giving her a chance and I told her that she was lying to herself, her family, me and God when she tells us that she wants to have NC so that she can make a decision on the M free of OW's influence. She knows that is the right thing to do, and has said so herself that NC is essential, but has now tried to give 1,001 excuses as to why she couldn't do it. I said take the lunches with colleagues as an example. If she was serious about NC she would have avoided eating with them, excusing herself or at least TRIED. But she hasn't done it and just goes ahead, not caring whether doing so will hurt me or not, or not thinking of the consequences of her having continued friendship or contact with the OW.

All this was said in a quiet tone. She just sat there and thought about it, not saying a word. Likewise I didn't say anything else also.

W, WS, W, WS, W, WS....just when you thought WS wasn't coming back or was weakened, she comes back again. Sheesh!

So

Dev,

I know exactly how it is. Last night we were having a great night. She just got done shipping a book, so she was home at a decent hour 6:45pm (she doesn't go into work until 9am). To celebrate that her book was shipped I picked up some pizza and some of her favorite truffles at the local chocolate store. We watched Earl, The Office, and Scrubs together and were chatting away during the commercial breaks. After Scrubs she told me that she was getting her review on Monday, and hopefully, she would get a raise. I told her I'm sure she would get a nice big raise because she has done such a great job and has shown such dedication by working all those long hours (you know, trying to score admiration points). She then snipped at me, "well, I'm sure I would have if you hadn't talked to my boss. Now I have a permanent black mark on my record." That just hit me like a kick in the nuts. I responded, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was my fault you fooled around with a coworker. You couldn't have gotten a black mark if I didn't have anything to tell them," and had to leave the house for the next hour to cool off. When I returned she said, "are you done being poopy?" I just went to bed. Luckily when she came upstairs, I woke up and we talked a little bit. I'm sure we'll be fine, but there is more work to be done. These things take time.

Hi Jim,

I know EXACTLY how that one goes too...lol

My wife says almost the same thing... she tells me how much everyone at the office says they'll miss her, she was such a great colleague, her customers are all very nice to her... then says that her manager says I was unprofessional to inform her management about it, and that she agrees cause it had done permanant damage to her career. And I replied "YOU committed the career suicide when you had an affair wtih the OW, and you're blaming me?" After that one episode she has not mentioned or blamed me to my face again..lol

Yes, but it takes time. We are both in limbo, stuck between breaking NC and NC, and trying to have some healing and recovery go on. Its hard knowing that at the end of it all, she may still make that wrong decision again, and put all our effort and love in vain... how i wish my WS would suddenly reach that point where she wakes up from the fog, and cry and beg me to forgive her and I know that she is sincere about it...and maybe I'll win the $10 million lottery too... at this point, I'd opt for the lottery <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You can't talk or reason someone out of this frame of mind.

A person willing to accept responsibility for their own behavior doesn't need convincing...a person unwilling...well you may as well try nailing jello to the wall.

Big time waster..opportunity to get lost in stupid power struggle...and LB fest.

I'd focus on personal boundaries and put behavior ahead of understanding or agreement.

Hi noodle,

Roger, read you loud and clear. I know this, that's why i don't get upset and angry much anymore. I don't try to convince her of it just state the facts for her since she asked.

I'm really praying that after she changes jobs and have the NC that she will slowly wake from the damned fog <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What have you done with regard to personal boundaries?

So far the only personal boundary I have is that I will not be part of a 3 way marriage. After this, if WS 'relapes' and restarts a EA/PA with the OW, I WILL file for divorce, knowing that I'd tried my best.

Other than that, she doesn't call, text, email or contact the OW in my presence or in a manner in which I will find out, so I've not had to draw and boundaries there.

OK...

It's a start.

It's already been crossed a few times.

Now what?

When thinking of boundaries...your consequences need to be predetermined.

The reason I am being so directed and specific about boundaries is that you have what looks to be a cake eating WS who is not pulling her own weight.

Enforcing your boundaries and opening the door is the surest and most direct route from A to B with regard to transition of accountability.

Right now YOU are accountable to adequately PROVE her guilty.

Wrong dynamic.

Backwards.

So you need to be very clear for yourself and to her about just WHAT PRECISELY your boundary is on an individual basis.

What is your boundary regarding text messaging...contact at work...talking...phone...each of these need to be decided.

Since I've made that boundary and conveyed it to WS, she has not crosed it yet, at least not in that she has resumed the A with OW. She is in the midst of leaving the job, and by next week will officially not be employed there. She will then go back to her mother's place where she will be away until mid March, so effectively physically distancing herself from OW. Of course she could still remain in phone contact, but there's nothing I can do to find out anyway.

I guess at some point if she is cheating on me again, I will find out. An A is not easy to hide, especially from a spouse who has been 'hit' by it once already and is on the lookout for the next one. The consequence of a repeat A will be an instant plan B and probably D.

I see what you are saying.

What I am suggesting is that you may want to consider moving that boundary up to include not ONLY an affair resumtion but also BEHAVIORS that point in that direction.

Fort example...

What if she only text messages while away.

Would you consider that affair resumption...contact...what?

What sort of requirment do you have during the time she is away?

None?

You seem lost between plan A and plan B and I'm not convinced that plan A was either complete or well executed.

You have a lot of loose ends flying around.

Sorry noodle, missed out your second post in my reply above.

OK, yes I totally agree.. wrong dynamics. I think I did something like enforce a boundary earlier which turned into an LB when I told her (and OW) that I would expose them to the whole wide world if they even talked to each other again. That was a mistake and I admit it, cause it was an empty threat as WS still had to return to the company until her last day on the 15th and needed to communicate with OW.

Once they have no official 'reason' or excuse to be in cntact with each other, I shall have to think up of how I'm going to enforce my boundary where she needs to have NC with OW. Still figuring that part out. WS is quite ready to throw the D-word around, and looks like she may even be serious about it sometimes. I've just got to tell and convince myself that if that is what she wants then I have to let go and not to keep enabling her EA/PA by holding so hard to my M that I enable it to kill itself thought constant LBs.

I can give her all the requirements I want. But no matter how reasonable, how RIGHT it may be, she will still do what SHE wants to do. I've already established that she needs to take ownership for her own actions. My requirements are simple, NC. But since she's 500km away, I will have no way of finding out during that period if she actually has NC.


I know my plan A is imperfect. Can you guys help me with suggestions/advice on how to do a better one? What else am I not doing that I should be? And/or what else should I be doing that I'm currently not?

Thanks