Hi Jayban,

Yes, she's leaving end of the March (which happens to be her b'day also). Since its a temporary move, I guess she'll be taking only some stuff with her, certainly she won't be taking whatever she deem is hers, too many things after 4 years to carry off... lol

I realize end of March is not exactly a deadline for me, since her stuff is still here (most of it), I can still 'kick her out' by going into plan B and telling her to get the remainder of her stuff out of the house sometime in April after she goes to her friend's place. It will give me enough time to get things in order and to see if I'm able to cope with all the bills by myself. I'm due for a raise in April, so it should cover that nicely (I hope!)

As for NC, well, she SAYS she has not contacted OW for a month or so. Reality-wise? I don't know and I have no way of finding out. The only car we own belongs to her, company gives her a car allowance cause she's in sales, I live 10 mins walk to work so I never needed a car anyway. So she's mobile and can go wherever she likes, with whomever she pleases. I've stopped asking her if she was with OW everytime she comes back, cause the answer is always NO. Whether she is honest or not, well, your guess is as good as mine.

And since the beginning when I confronted her about SMSes in her phone btw her and OW, she has been very careful -beyond one or two slips, I have not found anything incriminating on her mobile since (I still look every now and then). As for emails, well, she was never really an email person. Why email when she can call and/or meet up. OW lives like a 15 min drive aways and they work very nearby each other also?

Update: Last night she cooked dinner and we ate in. Since we spoke the other night, and a friend of hers calling and telling her I was very upset, she has tried to be more considerate towards me, but is still trying to draw a clear line between us (doesn't allow me to hold her, or to show any affection beyond a goodnight kiss on the top of her head). She has been at least texting me to tell me she's going to the gym after work, which is a slight improvement from the 'housemate' routine a few days ago. I have the impression like when you tread softly around someone who's dying, and feel like its the same kind of thing with us. Like her mind is made up, but she doesn't want to get too close to me again or to upset me further to avoid guilt or any chance of her changing her mind.

We spoke briefly last night. I asked her if she had really had NC with OW since she left the job, and she said yes. No contact, no calls, no SMSes, no emails, but that it wasn't easy for her. I said her unwillingness to work on the marriage would not be resolved by running away, and that a counsellor would be able to help her at least understand WHY she felt that way. Then perhaps she can understand her own reasons and to see if they were valid and if she wanted to try again. I told her going for counselling didn't mean she had to decide that she wanted to work on it -she may still choose not to, but walking out when she was unsure as to the reason why she didn't want the M would haunt her.

Anyway, a friend called up and said he was downstairs and asked me down for a drink, so I left it at that. When I came back an hour later her eyes were puffy and red, as though she'd been crying. I didn't ask her about it, but we sat down and watched TV for a while before I kissed her goodnight.

Though I was very upset 2 days ago, I've since felt much better, thanks to your words of encouragement and in the concern of a few close friends whom I'd been neglecting. A friend in need is a friend indeed, as they say..

Question: When she leaves for her one month 'break' and is not going to be paying her half of the rental, should I tell her to surrender the keys to the apartment to me? Its not the money, but I was thinking that may make her realize that there is a consequence to walking out, if only 'to think'? On the other hand, would doing so be firming her resolve to walk out, a sign that I don't want/need her anymore thus validating her reason to walk out?

I've got a question. Usually I see Plan A/B being applied to a WS who is still involved actively in an A. Well, more plan B than A. The BS improves him/herself, finds things to do instead of brooding over the M and A and basically send the message "I'm moving on, with or without you". At this point, the WS starts to think that the grass is NOT greener on the other side and this may help them to break away from the OP and return to the M and start over.

However, in my case, what if my WS really has had NC with the OW and is really considering if she wants this marriage, with nobody waiting in the wings? If she really misses the single life and I'm still trying to make myself believe that the OW is still involved in her decision? Does plan A/B still work as well in this situation?

Yes. RE: The plans are for you (the BS). Not for the WS or Xws.

L.

Thanks Orchid, I had to read and re-read that a few times.. lol..

Its 11pm and she's still not back yet. Unlike before the 3 week break, I have not called her once to ask where she is, and what time she is going to be home, who she's with etc. Its driving me crazy not knowing whether she's with OW or not.

I guess I can handle it better if I knew she was just indifferent to my feelings, fed up of reporting her whereabouts to me -IF I knew for sure that she has had NC. But I don't know, and not knowing kills me and I don't know how to deal with this not knowing... anyone got any opinions or suggestions for me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I just did a 'kind of' plan B. She came home and we talked and I told her when she moves out end of the month, I wanted her to take whatever she would need for that entire one month, so that she would not have to return to the house.

I told her I didn't want to see her because everytime I see her I lose more and more love for her, and I didn't want to reach a point where I say "To heck with her" even should she decide to come back. She was thoughtful and said she would come back during lunchtime so we would not have to meet each other. I said for the first one month I would allow her to keep her stuff here, but once she'd decided on whether she wanted the marriage or not, we would have to sit down and decide what I would keep and what she would take (we don't have much material possessions anyway). Thereafter I would change the locks and won't see her again until we sign divorce papers, if it came to that.

I made it clear that I love her, and that the door would remain open for her if she decides to return to the marriage. She agreed.

Why do I feel like I've done the wrong thing?

Yes, but you're not going to like it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, the suggestion is to make a decision about what you're doing -- and then don't let her actions influence you much. Either way -- you are in Plan A until she leaves so you leave her with the best impression possible.


This conversation should have happened 2 weeks from now (around the end of the month.. it's only the 14th...). The more you keep bringing it up, the harder it's going to be to leave her with that positive impression. It's looks like you're trying to 'get her to think' or pressure her for a decision and, right now, that's not what you want to do. You want to stop the pressure, stop the relationship talk, stop PLANNING your separation and just meet her needs as best you can. When the time comes for her to walk out the door -- THEN is the time to give her all the rules. Giving them to her in advance (taking a hard line, as you should) then going back into Plan A just makes you seem like you waffle back and forth a lot. (push, pull, push, pull, push, pull).

Try not to bring up the separation any more and if SHE brings it up, act non-committal.


Because you keep mixing the plans together... so stop doing that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mys

Roger, I did exactly that, waffle back and forth. I just told her again to reconsider moving out, saying its only been one month since NC and I've also been impatient expecting her to make a decision so soon. I said that she could stay and I would not talk about the R or M and what was the point of her moving out? She said she needed a break, and I asked her "a break from what?" I said she had not been fulfilling any of her marital duties so she has in effect been on a 'break' since the whole thing started.

She then paused and asked me "Are you done? I need to sleep"

Then added "But I'll think about it" probably just to get me off her back cause she has already made up her mind to move out... oh I'm such a dope! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Dev,

Just shut up about the whole moving out thing, can all R/M talk, and she probably won't move out. Just plan A.

Hah, thanks Jim. I will shut the he]] up and plan A, though I don't think it will change anything by the end of the month. She's already made plans with her friend to move out and seems HAPPY and is looking forward to doing so as well. Que sera sera, I guess.

Her b'day is on 31st March. Should I get her anything?

Also, saw that she'd cleared her mobile phone inbox and sent messages both today and yesterday. She was never in the habit of doing so, so perhaps she's trying to hide something?

Let me ask you this:

If you knew there was a call/msg to OW on that phone, would you do anything different than you're doing now?

Is the reason you're looking so hard because you want a good excuse to get angry or have some sort of 'grand stand' before she leaves? Or, to tell yourself 'it's hopeless'?

I'm just curious because you know you have a good 2 weeks left before she leaves "for a month." You know you can't stop her from leaving. You know that she's having a hard time committing to the relationship. You know that you're not leaving her with a good impression (frankly, she doesn't believe you when you say you 'won't talk about the relationship because as near as she can tell, you can't seem to help yourself but to bring it up every couple of days... you wouldn't believe you about it either *playful nudge*)

Right now, you're in Plan A... hoping to give her something positive to remember the relationship by ... what would change that?

Mys

Mmmmm... a hard question and one for which I have no answer to at the moment. I guess maybe I WANT to believe so much that the reason she's considering leaving me is because of the OW's influence, whether direct or indirect. That she's still addicted and bound to her fantasy relationship with OW. Easier to think that than to believe she's making a decision like this because she really believes she's unhappy in the marriage, cause that would mean she'd most likely not be changing her mind.



Perhaps all of the above <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


I guess I still haven't decided if KNOWING she was in contact with the OW would change anything in the current situation. I'll have to consider this real carefully and give you an answer later <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Thank you mys. You asked me some good questions which I will have to consider seriously. Just wish I had more time to think this through... events are moving so fast sometimes that I don't have time to think carefully before I act

Well, let's assume there's been NC. It hasn't been long enough for the withdrawal to be done so ... whether or not there's been new contact, she's still addicted and bound to that relationship because she's in withdrawal.


The two things aren't mutually exclusive AND your conclusion doesn't automatically follow from your premise.

She probably is quite unhappy with the relationship at the moment. Some of it (a lot of it) has to do with being in withdrawal. Some of it has to do with your Love Busters draining her bank (You have to know telling her "she's been "on break" from her marital duties since this started" was a huge, stinking love buster. Right?!)

BUT just because she's unhappy NOW doesn't mean she's always going to be unhappy -- particularly if you quit flip flopping around between Plan A and Plan Pressure. So, even if she really IS unhappy now (she probably really is, you know) doesn't mean that it's a forever thing.

I don't know if you know my story (probably not) but I've not dealt with infidelity personally. I generally stay off threads dealing specifically WITH infidelity (only) unless I think I have something to say -- like in your case. (I hung out on the Emotional Needs boards for years and years... but it's been so slow lately.)

For as long as I've been here, one thing I've noticed is that the marriages with the best chances at recovery tend to have a "plan working spouse" with a lot of perserverance AND the ability to go into Plan B at the appropriate time.

This stuff just takes time.


I know, it's hard to think under pressure. That's why it's good to keep your main goal (Plan A -- show her the best side of what being married to you has to offer) in the forefront of your mind is essential.

Mys

Roger... lol... will stop plan Pressure, though things have changed somewhat..

Update: She came home past 1am last night with no calls/SMSes to tell me shoudl would be late or anything. We parted at 8am in the morning and she comes home at 1am the next day... starting to get old real fast. Anyway, unlike the previous times, I didn't call or SMS her, I figured she's a big girl, and if she wants to do this, then I wouldn't give her a hard time about it, since she already knows that I don't like this.

Anyway, she came home at 1am, and I pretended to be asleep, not waking up and asking where she was, with who etc. This morning she was in a rather foul mood, and didn't even reply me when I wished her good morning. OK...

So I asked her what time she had come home last night and she said 1am, and that she was with her best friend.. She then walked out the bedroom (she was getting some clothes from the wardrobe) saying over her shoulder "I don't have to report to you anyway..."

I followed her and said "What did do? I'm not picking a fight with you, just said good morning and asked what time you got home... what's with all the hostility?"

She replied saying that I may get my wish for her not to move out anymore. I asked her how come and she said that last night, her ex-boss called her up. She was upset that she had joined a competitor company, and so soon after she left the previous company. The (ex)boss mentioned that it was impossible to carry on the story that she had left the company due to 'personal reasons' and that she was going to tell the truth if anyone asked her about it, cause it has only been 3 weeks since she left the previous company and she's with the new company now.

When I asked her if the boss had threatened her with any action, she got angry and said she didn't want to talk about it anymore. So I left it at that. She then left the house, no goodbye or anything.

WTH is she angry with me for? She's afraid of losing her current job cause she's in the sales line and the industry is very very small. The new company may not want to be associated with this, so may decide to terminate her to safeguard their reputation since she's only been working there for 5 days. Highly unlikely IMHO, but I think that's what she's concerned about.

Anyway, if she DOES lose her job (and again I say its highly unlikely) I can't plan B and kick her out to the curb, can I? It will give me more time to plan A, but I'll need to deal with 'having her' only because she may not have the means to leave me... great...

Realistically, she prob would not lose her job, but may stay for another month and see if there are any reprecussions from her ex-boss's anger. I don't think at this point she will dare to commit to a new lease with friends, especially with the possibility that she may not be able to support herself. But I will have to contend with this 'housemate' scenario which is hard to plan A cause she tries to stay out as much as she can.

There goes the 37" LCD TV I was planning to install in my bedroom to 'comfort' myself after she leaves... lol.. better save up first for the possibility of supporting both of us on my salary <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Anyway I remember mentioning to her that I didn't think her ex-boss would expose the affair to whomever asked, as the OW still works at the company and it would hurt her own current staff member AND the company anyway. Think she was just pissed off cause my wife joined a competitor and she still has not hired anyone to fill the vacant post..

Why does the WS like to yank our chain so much? To make us get angry and call it off so that they can feel better about themselves cause they were not the one to end the M?

We went to Australia last year for a holiday, about a month before D-Day. When I came home I was intrigued about migrating over there, in fact I was very keen, even attending migration talks etc. She was very against it, saying she would not go cause her parents were getting old etc. So after a while I gave up talk on migration cause I knew I would (of course) not leave my spouse behind and go.

Then a few days ago, she said she'd thought about leaving the city for good, and moving back with her parents. She told me she'd even consider migrating to Australia.. I was fuming inside cause she was so adamantly against it when I suggested it before.

So I said "Oh, NOW you want to go? Just not with me right?" And she smiled in agreement. So I pressed and said "I suppose you'd rather go with OW?" And she just smiled. I walked away, but inside I was really pissed off.

Was she really serious about considering going, just not with me, or did she say that just to make me angry? Why do WS's do this? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Devastated,

They do it to get you angry enough so they can leave or you leave the
marriage and they won't feel guilty.

It' s all part of thier fogg I think.

Still

Yes, thats what I think. I know she has strong attachment to her parents. Father has a stroke and can't travel and mum has been a homemaker. They've never even come to our place in the city before.

I mean, fogged out or not, I don't think she'd leave her parents behind the way she said she would. So I have to agree that she's doing it for the same reason you mentioned.

Anyway, I'm still waiting to see how this new twist in her job is going to affect US. She's avoiding me like the plague, and I'm not going to stick around the house waiting for her to come home every night either. I've already made plans to meet up with friends over the weekend. She can do whatever she wants. Will try to plan A when we have any time together.

Strange, I don't know if I'm happy or not now that she's told me she *may* stay after all. Gives me more time to Plan A, but at the same time knowing she may stay just because she may be forced by external circumstances is not good either.

OK, I came home just now after drinks with a friend, and to my surprise she was at home! Then I saw a large storage box in the spare room and I knew instantly that she had made up her mind to leave.

I didn't show much emotion, just acted like its perfectly normal for my spouse to move out everyday.. guess the beers helped calm my nerves some as well. I did ask her what the reasons were to make her decide this way and she just said she was sick of coming home... in fact, she dreaded coming home and facing me, and having to have more 'conversations'.

I just nodded sagely and asked her if she had in fact already made up her mind and she said, no, this was to really give her space to think. I said I agreed that she needed time to think and clear her head and sort out her emotions, and that she shouldn't put a time constraint to it -the door would remain open for her if she wanted back in to this marriage. She nodded and resumeed packing.

She said she would pack over the weekend and would be out by Monday or Tuesday, staying at her friend's place. Not much time to plan A as tomorrow she'll be out most of the day and Sunday as well. Maybe I'll settle for a dinner together on Sunday or Monday night. This is the last ditch effort before I throw the fate of my marriage to her 'decision'.