Silent,

That must be heartbreaking to hear your DS say that. My kids are older so they understand a little better.

I can't imagine leaving my kids...and they do it. I hate when the kids aren't here., it just doesn't feel right. At least my DD is usually here with me.

Give your little boy some extra loving.

Still

SL, it still makes me sick to have to drop off my kids. Both of them say they are "working on it," meaning trying to convince WW to come home ("It's 3 against 1"). It tears me up--they shouldn't have to deal with that. I have great kids, and I know they'll be fine, but it just doesn't have to be this way, and it really makes me angry that it is. I believe I am all about the kids now. If not for them, I would have given up long ago. I know that we can have a happy marriage, but without the kids it wouldn't be worth this much pain.

I really feel for anyone who has to watch their kids in this kind of pain, but it sounds like you're doing well. We're all here with and for you.

Well, I think we need to have a slumber party one day...

What state do we want to meet in? We can do a girls' camping trip with the boy's!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry to hear about your triggers...I haven't had any in a while believe it or not...the bus passes everyday and it doesn't bother me anymore...

I still hate that song..."Lips of an Angel"...no connection to the A...I just hate it...

I guess I'm not looking at the A but our whole M now...really SEEING the problems...

I decided not to help STBX with the bills this week after talking to a mutual friend who said "Um, you need to fix the car, you need reliable transportation for you and your boy's"

I agreed...so all those times when STBX spent money and I didn't have it to pay the bills b/c he purchased his toys or spent money on them...well, I'm going to do it for something that I NEED not want...so, F*** him!

I'm going to call 2morrow about the transmission being serviced and the oil leak being fixed...then I'll get around to the spark plugs and wires...

It's probably about 500 dollars worth of work...he can kiss my OOPS!

LOL...I've been told that I use my anger constructively...LOL...

The bills are still going to be behind...even if I help him...our safety is more important right now...besides it's almost paid off...I'd like to keep it for awhile! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Got a call from my lawyer. The LSA is finally signed. I was asked if I wanted to file for divorce. I said that I may, but I needed to go home and read the LSA again, and that I may have a few questions. I actually surprised myself, before even THINKING about it, I came really close to saying, YES...

I wonder if that means anything beyond being hurt right now.

I'm really sick and tired of the dog and pony show that has been put on by WH, I'm sick of being a part of his SICK dynamic. I need to read up on the LSA and make sure that I will not have to move anytime soon, as I am really not wanting to do that. I don't want my son to start school in the fall, and then have to narrow a home search because I don't want to uproot my son.

I've noticed that I am really on thinking of my son this time around. I don't want him hurt any more than OUR situation will cause. No OP in his life, no moving. I can't be sure, but I think that moving into a new home will be stressful for him; I know it would be for me...

I have until Monday to respond to this request. I can, thereafter, file at any time, but will have to refile the LSA papers upon divorce request. It was a lot of work just to get the first LSA signed. I dunno. Any suggestions are appreciated.

That clear mind is kicking in and the calm heart will follow. Your priorities are dictating your choices and that's important. In turn this may lead you to the next stages of grieving which will make you quite angry at the WS. Be prepared.

L.

Oh, I'm definitely feeling the anger. It crawls up my spine when I least expect it. I still miss what may have been if my H turned up, but I believe that he is lost to me. Life goes on...

Oh, Sweetie...

((((SL)))))

I don't have any advice but I can say that I think you are doing a great thing in taking the weekend to think about what YOU want! What's best for you and your son!

I'm here with you! Only you know when you have had enough, would you really want him back after everything that he's done? I think that's the question that you have to ask yourself!

Yep, that's the feeling. Now don't let it overwhelm you. Instead learn how to refocus it into a useful tool. You can get quite creative and really send some blows to the A while at this stage. Reverse babble comes in handy about this time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Remember stay balanced and focued. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

I wouldn't want him, not as I know him now, AND without revising history, he's always thought of himself first. He may be the best father he can on the weekends that he sees his son, and that's about all he can muster. His cruelty has cut a bit deeper this time. I feel violated. I'm tired.

I honestly WISH that I was at the same point that my friends and family are, with how much hate they have. I wouldn't want to HATE, but I would love to disconnect from him. I love him, but I don't like him, I don't care for the type of person that he is. I refuse to have friends like him, much less a SPOUSE.

Orchid, I don't even know what the point of gracing him with RB would be a this point. He's gone; I am beginnning to believe that his intial A was his exit, and he's just been hanging around waiting for someone to move in with so he doesnt' have to worry over money so much.

MONEY is the only thing that he has mentioned having a HUGE concern over; my son is second to that. One of the first things he mentioned when he came back this time, was that we shouldn't concern ourselves with money, as we have in the past, that we should go out more and ENJOY it. Not ME, but IT...

I think he's been honest, and I've allowed myself to be blind...

You nailed exactly how I feel about STBX...

That last argument that we had was the nail in the coffin and then finding the website personal...that was it!

You can only be nice for so long...I am very angry with him, especially now that I know the dynamics of our M/R...

I wanted, so badly, to believe that he still loved me, and that, ultimately, we would be happy again.

I still believe that my M could work, but not with the man that I'm faced with now, and, truthfully, I don't want to waste too much time. I've waited for him to show, I've done what I can. I just don't want my son to be hurt anymore by my WH's behavior, and he has hurt our son AGAIN. He talks about wanting me and daddy to be with him. DS went so far as to tell his daddy to tell me (on the phone) that he loves ME. What an emotional child he is. He is a WONDER to me, so bright.

I can tell you that I have been in your exact situation. While the WS was complaining about the need to be frugile, he was spending $$ like no tomorrow.

When I stopped paying for his bills and demanded he pay his fair share of child support, reality started to hit.

What I learned is $$ takes no sides. You either have it or you don't. That piece of reality makes it through the fog in many cases. Takes time though. So the need for the BS t/b firm and patient in plan B is a must.

Despite it all, H is back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

I know that you are right, Orchid. I notice that I am letting fear slip in and try to sway me. I fear losing more years of my life to this situation.

I will be thinking over things this weekend, and still appreciate all discourse on this subject; it helps me to THINK and see things from all angles.

I get so tired of hoping sometimes. Hope can be torturous. Despair is freeing in a way. You figure the worst and run with it. I've seen some pretty bad chit lately, and worry for my son. I don't want him to grow into a young man with wayward, entitlement issues. It's scary that my WH's behavior and MY behavior in respect to WH's behavior could CHANGE the course of my son's life. What a tragedy (to me, anyway).

SL,

There is a book called hope is not a strategy.

I always think about that when someone has hope for something.

If you hope for it then work to make it happen. YOu did that. You put your energy into it.

You did not hope to try to save your M and get your H back you worked on it.

Now due to his decesions you cannot work on it anymore.

That makes sense. You didn't give up or throw anything away. You did more then most and shouldn't second guess yourself.

You now have to make the next step, the next plan. There is nothing to fear. You are a strong person that will do well.

At this point it is his loss. A faithful wife that would still take him back if he agreed to NC etc.

He is getting more then he could ever give up. He just chose not too. So what are you giving up by losing him in his current state?

I know it stinks but sometimes people change and just don't want to change back.

SL, I have the same feeling towards my WW.

We could have a fulfilling M for both of us - "could" being the important word because we cannot do it with her being the person she is now and the person she has been for years now. When I see her I see a shell of the person I have known all these years.

The fear I have is that she is so far gone that she will never turn; however I know and believe in all my heart that there is no person that God cannot reach, no heart He cannot change.

I don't want my old M and my old W, or my old self for that matter and I don't have to accept any of that.

Heya Frog,

I agree. I believe that WH will be in his recent incarnation for some time. He has a lot of internal problems that I don't see him working on anytime soon. I don't know him anymore, and he doesn't know me.

I does stink, but such is life. Sometimes, despite all of the effort you put into something, others will not agree with you.

This is good, all of this chatter. It helps me to be clear. I just don't WANT this anymore. I want my family to be whole and happy, but THIS, I don't want this. Me wanting something, and what I can control are two different things. I want peace and quality in my life, and I want to insulate my son from as much of his WAYWARD father as possible. It's not good for him to be in and out of a R with his father. It's too much. His poor little heart breaks, too, just like my big ole heart.

I really need to just read the LSA again, reassure myself that I've done all that I can for me and DS, for our well-being. Truth is, my WH will fare better in a D, as time goes by. He will have a second income with his OW; I will not. It will be rough, but I could afford to take over the entire mortgage. I would be scraping, but I could do it.

I've been thinking a lot about this, and I think it is good that I was asked the question of divorce by my lawyer. She's out for my best financial interest, not my heart, and I am glad to have that balance.

Eph, I wholeheartedly agree with you assessment of the OLD R, OLD M, OLD spouses. I have to remember that I am changed, too. That I actually HAVE boundaries now, that some innocence is lost, and along with it naivte.

I do hope that my WH wakes up one day and is able to be healthy and do whatever it takes for him to get there. He is truly lost inside himself--maybe never to return. How sad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I really want my son to have the benefit of a GOOD father, but don't know that that will be provided for him.

SL,

I really sympathize with you. When you talk about your son, I feel the exact same emotions acutely for my own children. And I feel a great deal of personal disappointment for your situation. I was pulling for you so hard--was so excited for you.

Veterans can advise you better, I'm sure, but I would caution you not to do anything while you're still angry about the false recovery. That must have been incredibly painful, but it's not really unusual, right? You saw glimpses of your H, so you actually know he's still in there. He hasn't hit bottom yet.

I really wish there were some kind of formula--what are the chances that my WS will ever really return in the way in which I would take them back? Many people look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them what I'm doing, and one has to wonder whether this stuff really works. I have asked Jennifer the 'what are my chances' question, and she replies that everyone asks that, and her answer is 'even if the chances were only 2 percent, wouldn't that be worth the attempt?'

You want a whole family back, but you don't want THIS, because THIS sucks. So what can you do to make THIS better for you and your son? I think you know all of this, but I find that it's easy to lose track of what you're doing, especially in the face of triggers, and your WH's failed recovery was an enormous one.

SDG

guy, I do hear what you are saying, and have been asking myself these same questions. I thought about calling Jennifer again, but funds are MORE than low right now. My credit is just about maxed out and I have to get the dogs to the vet soon.

Orchid has given me much to chew on. You have, too. Again, I AM in Plan B now, and haven't planned beyond that. I don't want to make this sort of decision emotionally, so I will take the time to assess where this is coming from. Again, I don't want to make any decisions in fear or from a place of hurt...

Keep the questions coming, it's helping...