I typed a post, but it never made it.

Another issue is her mother's name is on the student loan and she will not take the credit hit if my WS misses a payment.

What about explaing the "Carrot and Stick" approach to Plan A to her MIL?

I am trying to calm down, but I am in a panic over this.

Df, Just woke up with a start and had say this.

You need to tell WW you DO NOT want Divorce. She thinks you do from your statement last night during her storm.

"No! I Love You and I am trying to save my M and I said something I didn't mean." Make her understand this even though she doesnt care right now.

This will blow over if given a chance.

Tell MIL THAT as well.

What ever you tell MIL just protect this sight for you.

I will do that the next time I see her. She went to work and I doubt I will see her much today.
Still trying to think of a solution to the MIL issue.
Back to bed.

bump!

Dogfood

I think you need to be very careful with the MIL situation. You may be doing more harm than good with it.

First, Plan A is about making yourself an attractive option -- it's not about eliminating all other options for your wife. Consider this: Your wife can leave. She can strike out on her own -- with her mother's help or whatever. But, that's unlikely to last because her mother is not going to want to take care of her forever.

Sure, it would be nice if your MIL would agree to support the marriage. But, continuing to campaign to get her on your side is extremely unlikely to work at this point because she's been listening to your wife's side of the story.

Remember, you want to be an attractive option. Attractive options don't try to eliminate all other options. When you watch TV commercials, they don't try to set up road blocks so they are the only store you can visit. Instead, they try to lure your business by offering you incentives to go to their store. If the store did manage to eliminate all competition, how comfortable would you feel going there?

Another reason to stop is that the harder you push your MIL, the more likely it is that she's going to believe that you're a bad guy. Remember, one of the first thing we tell people to watch out for in abusive situations is "isolating" behavior. If your MIL sees you as trying to isolate her daughter, she's likely to react very strongly and protectively.

If you get to Recovery, you'll need to talk alot about choices and how they're made -- her choice to have an affair, etc. It's very important that you let her own her choices now. Don't try to make them for her by default.

The only choices you want to control are her choices with regard to YOU! Remember, there are usually strings involved in gettng money from relatives. Your job is to make your relationship look like an attractive option. Let her try out the other options if that's what she needs to do.

I think it's wasted energy to pursue the MIL angle too hard. If you want to, try to make one more respectful request of your MIL to support the marriage. After that, you want to leave her alone or you're likely to just play into the impression that you're 'doing something you shouldn't.'


I don't know how you feel about the cats but, as an animal lover, I can't imagine letting her take those cats to a shelter if you have any way to keep them at all. Those poor creatures are totally innocent in all of this. They don't deserve a death sentence. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Please, save the cats if you can - regardless of what happens to the marriage. At least find them a good home instead of letting them be killed.

Mys

Dog, you wrote this last night. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this?



ANY contact between the two will keep the feelings alive. No WD will start until they don't talk AT ALL or even see each other.

I wouldn't fill MIL in on too much MB stuff. She won't even take or return her SIL's calls. Not too much help here. This may have been talked about, but does Mrs Dog have sisters or brothers?

Dog,

I too have a MIL situation she is completely supporting her daughter. I think its a bit of projection on her part. WW father was a drunk and abusive to both WW and MIL. I think MIL is projecting her guilt and fear for not standing up to FIL years ago onto WW situation, she believes and also hypes up everything negative my WW says about me.

What is the dynamic of the MIL and WW bond?

Could you PLAN A your MIL?

She will feel the pressure eventually of supporting her daughter and if she see's you as a positive she would be less resistant to push her daughter back to you if your WW becomes to much of a burden.

All I can say it that your in for a longer haul because of this, WW wont feel the impact/consequence as soon because she is being insulated from them.

Go visit your MIL in person if you can. Plan out what you are going to say to her. Tell her that you love her daughter, but she has been having an affair with the neighbor upstairs. You are trying to work through this, but NC with OM is a necessary boundary. This is a line I like to use. "I know our M may not have been perfect, by my love for your daughter is." I am fighting to save our M even though she betrayed me. I would appreciate your help in saving the M.

As for the venom she spews, just ignore it. Don't get involved in any arguments. Don't raise your voice or get sucked in. Continue to plan A her and avoid LBs. Reverse babble her. She is threatening you so you no longer interfere with her A if she gets the OM to start contacting her again. Don't fall for it. Continue to enforce your boundaries. If OM talks to her, talk to OM and OMF again. She'll be pissed, but eventually she'll learn that you mean business and she can't manipulate you.

Actually DF, what I'd do here at this point is to sit still for today and take stock.

See if she contacts OM. Don't initiate anymore R talk of any kind if there's no evidence of contact.

If it appears that you've reached the beginning of your first (and primary) goal of NC, pause there for a few, and let that sink in with her. The trick here is to keep NC in place, not let her avoid the consequences of her affair...but balance all of this by the positive side of plan A at the same time.

Keep showing her that you love her in small ways. Nothing huge and screaming...just be there for her. The card, the soup, those kinds of things. Keep the 'carrot' in front of her during this.

And as long as she's not contacting OM, pace yourself on further exposure for the moment. Be ready, but wait to see what her next move is. I'd wait until another sign of contact before I'd push things further on that front.

WITH YOUR ACTIONS ONLY, make it clear that each contact results in new exposure. Don't SAY it, SHOW it. It's negative reinforcement. It worked well in my situation. Every contact with OM resulted in a crisis. When there was no contact...there was no new crisis. See the plan here?

Wait to see what she does over the next few days...but the minute you've got proof of new contact, follow up with further exposure.

Personally, I think you've done a pretty good job. Only thing I see is this...don't EVER say you agree to divorce unless that's your plan. Other than that, you've made the affair horrible for her...now make being with you the good thing in her life, even if she doesn't want it to be right now.

Ok...I will sit still and see what happens.
I cannot see my MIL in person, she is 2500 miles away.
As for the cats, the only way I can keep them is to take over the lease on the apartment, which would enable her to move out easier.

Thought about getting a cup of coffee this morning?

I can do that, but I am getting the feeling she wants some space right now. I said "have a good day" this morning as she left for work and it was responded with a slam of the door.

Don't worry about her anger. My WW hated me after she and OM broke it off, but she was sleeping in the same bed as me after one week of NC. As long as NC is in place, you'd be surprised how different things become.

Oh yeah!

Give some space today. Then be there and supportive when she comes home.

Believe it or not, I am not too concerned about her anger towards me. I understand why it is there.
But, I also do not want to seem like I am hovering and spying on her (She has accused me of spying, tapping her phone, etc...)

So, I am going to give her some space, yet be supportive and happy when she comes home (which will be awhile, I feel. I think she is goig to look at a room for rent today)

I still have a week or two before she heads out the door. We will see where this leads.

Just be a super sleuth about spying. Spy so that she doesn't know how or when you are doing it. Don't tip her off that you continue to spy. My WW went to visit a lawyer after NC with OM, most of the time these things are just idle threats either to get you to back off or to punish you for interfering. Just let her try and move out and break her lease. Don't help her move at all. Don't shield her from the consequences of her actions. Just let her stew. Have you exposed to her friends? Is there a friend of hers that you are friends with? One that might be a double agent for you?

There was one friend, but now she has not spoken with me since this started and she will not return my calls.

I am wondering about the mother, tho. She came home early and looked rather stressed and was telling me she doesn't know how she is going to move out, she has no money for the deposit, can't figure out how to pay to break the current lease, etc...

She was sent home because she vomited (she made it to the bathroom). She looks like crap, really tired, etc..

Now, here is some weird stuff that happened.
I went ahead an suggested the bed (I know) so she could lay down and get some rest. I made up the bed for her, and after that she came in and started to change into her sweats in front of me. She has been real cautious for the last month about doing anything like that. She wears, uh, sexy underwear all the time, but she did it anyway.
As she was pulling on her sweats, she lost her balance and fell over a little, I caught her and she clung to my arms for a few seconds.
She talked a little about the weight she has lost since this started and I commented that she looks really good. She smiled and said thank you.

I tucked her into bed and she asked for me to get the thermometer. Took her temp and then she asked if she felt warm to me. I touched her forehead and cheeks, making sure I had a soft touch, and lingered there for a little bit. She got goosebumps when I did that.

I adjusted her eyemask and gave her her favorite stuffed animal and then she asked to wake her in a few hours. (Something I would do in the past, but haven't done since this went down).

In addition to looking stressed, she was real subdued when she came home, but no anger in her voice when we spoke.

Oh, and the funny moment was, we were talking about the cats and I mentioned that one of them played little rhino with my head last night and snuggled up to another cat, that she normally has nothing to do with. I was on a conference call at the time and she asked "Uh...are you on mute?" I looked shocked because I wasn't. She started laughing pretty hard and called me a dork (something she has done, in fun, when I do something stupid like that).

W is starting to peek out from the fog just a little. It probably won't last long for now though.

Have you told her you did mean what you said yesterday in during her storm?

You do not want a divorce!

Think she needs to know where you are in this. When the time is right.

I have not told her yet, because the moment just didn't feel right. I think it would have put more stress on her. I will tell her today, however.

I agree with the peeking out of the fog a little bit. For the first time in awhile, I saw my wife today. I know it won't last for now, but it was nice.

Oh, JKG, thanks for last night. It helped. It really did.