SS:

Ac2ally, I feel better now than I have in years.

I think my W does, 2.

We're not back 2 intimacy at all yet, though. Not really even much in2 conflict again. But it's better than withdrawal.

One of our friends from the campfire has been posting on SYMC under another name, but I'm sure folks will recognize him. He's asking some pointed questions. Good dialog going, ac2ally. I haven't been over there 2 post yet, but will soon.

-ol' 2long

SS,

I dreamt about that comet last night. That and a few other hundred comets and meteors. P and I were outside and the sky was like a fireworks display...all different colors and kinds of things going on up there, and some racing around leaving tracers of awesome colors. And I remember thinking I hope it all starts to rain down on us in sparklers like it did back in the 1800's that the slaves wrote about in my book.

At the very end of the light show, I said to P "I hope that comet over there grows a tail", and then it did.

The whole thing was breath takingly beautiful. P and I agreed that we were so thankful we had lived long enough to witness it.

Oh well, the best dream I have had in awhile.

She had sent me an email yesterday, well it was more of a whine, about her stepmom and her mental abuse, and in the email she was being her normal, dramatic self, and I could tell by her tone that she was just trying to be...well, dramatic. I called her last night to make sure it was just one of her very artistic rants and it was because she said "Mom, I can't talk right now, I am busy talking to one of my friends. Just respond to my email"

So I responded this morning -

"Nice vent! You are a very artistic writer, but next time please break it up into paragraphs". LOL

I have to be careful not to feed her drama about her step-mom...or she'll take it to extremes. Kids!

The above stories have no bearing on your sitch, 2long. And I do think no response is the best response (in your sitch). I am reminded of the difference between creation and competition. Been thinking about it alot in my own conflicts with people trying to make me out to be or feel like the bad guy and the whole victim thing...

Creation vs competition is a very interesting challenge in your mental thought processes. It's about handling things in a win/win kind of way, and in so doing it lifts you up into a position of creation instead of competing, where there has to be a winner and a loser by it's very definition.

Now I don't know if that has any bearing on your sitch or not. Letting her bottom out, may fit into that category though.

2Long-

Actually, that 'asking for' was all I was suggesting too.

All you can do is ask...let her know how you feel...and see how she responds from there.

Just figured it might be worth the asking.

I just went over there and read his posts. The first time I was so filled with hatred, I had to stop. What a writer, to be so piognant, so honest that the reader has to stop because tears of anger and hatred are streaming down their face.

Went back with complete emotional detachment, and read again.

I won't post over there for reasons that I don't feel like explaining, but I have some questions.

Would DS we better off away from her? What do the counselors say?

Can she heal DS? Can his healing come from her? Is she working on this?

Love heals all. I believe this to the very core of my soul. So why would he be permanently damaged? Why can't love heal him?

And one other one,

You said and this is from hurried memory "Now I only care about everbody equally" (in response to your admissions about never feeling love to distraction again).

I wonder if this is normal? I think I feel this way. I kept calling it infatuation (the love to distraction thing). I wonder if this is how it is meant to be, caring about everyone equally? I believe the great masters would say yes.

I love my husband, as a choice. I enjoy him immensely. I will never betray, dishonor and plan on bringing him great joy, but... I do not feel infatuation or love to distraction. That part of me maybe dead... or maybe I am healthy and do not feel infatuation any longer.

Do you think that it dies? or that it was never supposed to be that way anyway?

You said you wanted questions. These are my questions.

They do not require an answer as I know that you probably don't want to post here. Perhaps 2long could forward to you.

I'll ask him 2 come over here and maybe offer a post or 2.

I've had similar feelings when discussing his sitch (and mine, 2) over on ILUL. I don't get his W.

I've thought many times of what my kids might think/do if I were 2 have left, or if I should still someday decide 2. I think my kids would be "okay", in the DrPhil sense - "It's better 2 be from a broken home than 2 be in one" - which translates 2 ol' 2long that the lesser of 2 evils may still be evil. But I don't have religious beliefs that prevent me from divorcing, Appy does.

More, as I read that thread, I found myself gravitating 2ward some of the more "radical" resource articles that SC has put on ILUL, rather than 2 the MB methods. I think that this is because of the length of the A and my advanced age <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think that after all we've been through and learned from, plus the stage of physical ma2rity we've inexorably reached, the whole concept of falling in love the way we used 2 as teenagers, or even 30-somethingers, seems just plain old silly anymore.

Love is a choice. Love is NOT chemistry, in spite of all the fascination centered around that interpretation.

Things that are truly substantial, 2 me, are those things that survive even US.

Our legacies, at least the ones that will be remembered long beyond our lifetimes, include memories of our compassion, evidence of our "works", and simply the amount of time people spend contemplating what we meant 2 them.

It's cool if we can have fun and feel good about ourselves while establishing those legacies, I suppose.

It's like: Chemical love is probably always rewarding for a time. If it's backed, or better yet, preceded by compassion and empathy and not encumbered by deceit and selfishness, then it might last for a longer time.

But it won't survive us like the memories of our positive effects during our time here will.

-ol' 2long

SC said something recently that I keep thinking about.

He said that unconditional love is universal, and that it was here before we came on2 the scene, and it will be here long after we're gone.

It doesn't need us 2 be aware of it 2 exist.

Chemicals come and go. They change states and compounds, and will certainly "leave us" when we're gone and feeding the dasies. Calling that love, and then trying 2 explain the goofy behaviors we go through (mostly when we're young and lack wisdom) on that basis seems like a waste of time 2 me.

And it forgoes all the cool things we can learn by 2rning our adversity in2 oppor2nity - even adversity brought on by an LTA.

Like now. I'm still experiencing growth spurts, that are all the more interesting 2 me because my W and I are talking about them and sharing our interpretations of the lessons more.

I'm grateful for the lessons I've learned. But I wouldn't have learned most of them if my W hadn't had her LTA. Am I grateful for the A, then? No, it still pi$$e$ me off sometimes. Perhaps I could have learned the things I've learned by some other means. But that's not what happened, and now I'm not looking 2 start the process over (I don't need 2, though maybe I still need other processes for different lessons!).

-ol' 2long

I must be dense cuz I can't figure out which post is his. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It's Penny's "affair story" thread.

You'll recognize him.

-ol' 2long

thanks 2long. No wonder I couldn't find it!

Wow can that man write and express himself!

2long,

Thank you for what you wrote. It helps to know that my thinking is not so much jaded, but mature. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Been thinking a lot about Ap's son, and his loss of joy and enthusiasm, and I think if it were me, I would be running it by Ark. She seems to have such an understanding of the brain, mental processes and kids. I feel so bad for him. Hope things turn around soon.

I can relate to a lot of what he has written and you too, 2L. Even though my H's A was 3 years, not 10 or 15 it felt like much longer. We had no recovery in between A1 and A2 which would equal 6 years of living with a wayward mentality. On top of that, it sickens me to think that I was the cause of the same sort of pain, humilation and destruction on my own family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Another point here, is that here we all are. With our backgrounds. With our his2ries. With our baggage, with or without clean underwear inside.

Going forward, are the BSs wise 2 distance themselves from the WS, former or no, if they want a fulfilling relationship someday? Or do they re-connect with the FWS and build that fulfilling relationship with them?

I think the "F" must of course be earned for the latter 2 be a sensible option.

I don't even know what I'm going 2 do, in the long term. I can't imagine what he should do.

-ol' 2long

I'm afraid we are skirting around two different subjects, in a way, but I am stuck on a child's ability to cope - so bare with me -

I only know about personal recovery, not marital recovery.

I do know that I would not have survived some of the stuff I had been through had I not come to some kind of spiritual place.

I have survived a brutal attack where the attacker left me for dead, and planned for me to be dead. (co-worker and former guy I had briefly dated, story on here somewhere)...

I crawled to a bus station and rode a bus three days home from Reno to my parents and could not tell them what had happened. Thinking back it is amazing to me that at the time I could not understand why everyone kept staring at me. Looked in the mirror in the Chicago bus depot and my neck looked like I had literally been hung by a rope, dried blook coming out of my ears, swolen face... I refused to think about it. period. blocked it out completely. Had no bad feelings, no fear, no nothing.

Three years later, thought I was doing well, boom...suicide attempt. Had no desire to live anymore and couldn't say why I was in so much pain, only that I was. Of course it is obvious why. Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

Our minds are so very powerful, but if we don't have the spiritual understanding, if we don't have the tools, if we can't heal, then bad things can happen in our brains...

I think of a young child who has survived on an emotional level more than what I had (I had no attachment to my assailant, I knew on some level it wasn't personal, it wasn't about me) and how his brain might deal with it.

I don't know how a child could, without a whole lot of love and support, and the knowledge from someone very wise, on how he can process it.


I don't know about anybody elses marriage or what they need to do, or even should do. I do know or think I know, that the hardest part would be for them to decide one way or another. And hopefully this decision making would not take so long, because it would be absolutely tormenting in my mind.

After making the decision, the rest is just a matter of figuring out what is the best plan and wwhere to go from there..

My whole point 2long, I think is you are doing right to feel everything you need to feel, to process it, to dwell in it if needed, for as long as it takes you, same for Ap...but for a child they don't have that kind of knowledge to be able to, or brain development. At least as far as I know. That's why my heart breaks for that boy. For us adults, we'll deal with it and make it better somehow. We'll find joy in the long run, no matter what. I hope kids do the same, but I have my doubts on whether they have the mental resourses to, at least in childhood.

That was some good writing by Ap...for sure. I could relate to some of what he's felt. If I dwell and relive too much I can dredge up more bad feelings but I am pretty good and not going there...and accepting our recovery for what it is.

I wonder if Ap's wife has ever apologized or would ever be able to sincerely apologize to their son for her actions during her A....for how she also hurt him....and to ask his forgiveness for same. It seems like that would help his recovery. I find it so sad, unless I read it wrong that she seems oblivious to the pain she's caused him.

That is a huge difference in my H and your wives, Ap, and 2long. He did apologize for his A to each of our kids and made amends as best as possible. He has also been sincerely remorseful and repentant with me. He continues to demonstrate strong personal boundaries.

I don't know, weaver. I think my child being that hurt might be the ultimate deciding factor in all this.

I continue to read, and learn.......... and I am thankful for all of you who contribute, and teach.

SS

weaver:

Yes, we were talking about 2 different things, I think.

My kids are older than Appy's son. My W hasn't "really" had AO's at them, or even much in front of them. Those have been reserved for me, it seems.

Appy's son knows about the A. My son still doesn't. My daughter does.

My W reminds me of her dad in one way (and one only, really): He never could bring himself 2 apologize for what he did 2 them when they were growing up and he was an alcoholic. But he was very attentive with his grandkids, and ended up being a great grandparent 2 our kids. My W has various times apologized 2 me for the A, but I've always questioned her sincerity. She's never apologized 2 my daughter, so far as I'm aware. But she's been making a huge effort 2 "get 2 know" our son in the past few years. They get along pretty well now.

What if, though? If I were Appy, I would really want 2 take my son away from that environment. Religion or no. But I'm not Appy. And though I can get *my* sense of how Appy feels, and maybe a faint glimpse of how his son might feel, that still isn't the whole story. Only Appy has that.

-ol' 2long

Unless she is the one that can help him heal. Trix's thoughts are what I mean.

I don't have any experience with abuse from a parent.

GB does, his dad, and it really has shaped a lot of his life. For instance, he can't handle conflict at all. That is why he can't work for anyone else. It is so bad that any raised voices towards him in anger take him immediately back to his childhood being hurt by the old man.

It's out of my realm of understanding completely.