It has been a while so I thought I’d post and update everyone . After being verbally beatup I did some thinking .
I am and have been honest to BS talked to her several times ,told BS a few things like when I thought it started
Also afew not so nice details. The comments were that BS doesn’t believe me. Some people believe that I wasn’t giving any details and just lounging , FALSE even before my last post I was honest , RO I still am I have gotten myself into more trouble by doing the opposite . Today BS had a dr. appt. 100 mi away I took her to it results were good . We went out to dinner someplace nice had a good meal and time . On the way home we had a not so nice disagreement where I was not the winner . I explained my view about a bill from 3 yrs ago and got nowhere , also on the way home apologized twice and asked her a question ,no response at home apologized again and told her I was going out to work on our snowplow truck . A half hr later came in and was accused of calling OP I had no phone with and showed her so and she got even madder at me. I am a RO individual have been for quite some time . I go on lots less sleep than BS and do most of the home chores due to her being sick .
Am lost don’t understand how to get her to believe me , now she wants to quit counseling with Jennifer. Am still lost.

what is jennifer saying about all this? where are you guys at with your counseling with her? and are you making deposits with your wife? i dont know what ro means in your post...what is a ro individual?(its early for me and the coffee isnt ready yet....lol)

and as far as the bs not believing you....thats normal. only consistent truth over time will change that. that is totally up to you. it will be a long time before she takes anything you say at face value. hasnt jennifer explained this to you?

I believe he means

radically honest

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Pep

thanks pep---i hadnt had coffee yet and wasnt firing on all cylinders! lol

Hoping to hear from Gilligan...

LA

he was voted off the island at the last tribal counsel <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I posted ,or at least tried to somehow I lost all that I did. Starting over, Sat. was a good day ,sat. evening we retired early to cuddle and such , BS wanted to talk instead,so we did for 4 hrs. ended with BS telling me I was lying again. Untrue. No cuddling. Sun. morn was the same still mad at me . In the afternoon had to help oldest son , we jointly agreed when finished came home ,BS was on MB showed me true hearts letter to the WS .
BS felt better, now I was depressed cause what I saw was a lot of me in the letter when I started this mess.
I have been an excellent WS since counseling started. Day starts at 6am give BS meds. ( needs them to get moving in the morning due to a disease .) feed dog let out make coffee and lunches athen to work. Get home at 4pm let dog out feed others outside check for orders for our home based business get shipments ready do book work , purchasing and pay bills for business. Pay bills for household call BS at work to find out what suggestions for supper probably the third call to BS today, ask BS to call me even if only to check up on me usually doesn’t, supper ready when BS gets home calls me on way home on my cell told to call on home phone to check on me usually doesn’t. try to spend at least 2-3 hrs per nite with BS . Dishes or laundry no problem.
BS has been ok since reading that letter , mood has been wonderful. I really want this to work for both of us.
NC since 3\06 when OP called and told OP it was over not to call. I have went to great lengths for NC changed cell numbers , BS won’t let me change home # .Changed locks in house we thought OP may have a key, no I didn’t give one. Voice mail screens all my calls at work, now have a P.O. box now no mail at home.
I have a major problem I need insight with DD is coming on of all days 2\14 BS says can’t get thru it how can I help?
Gilligan
PS got voted out cause of the mess I’ve made of our lives that’s why the handle hopefully it will turn out like the show in the end.

Okay, Gilligan...I really want you to do something...

Use the "F" for formerly, as in FWS...when you put it there, that means you won't cheat again...you get it. You get how destructive, how painful, and how far-reaching the consequences are...

When you say "WS needs insight" that says to me that someone who is having an affair today needs help with it.

And when you say, "I have been an excellent WS since counseling started" that tells me that you excel at cheating.

I don't believe you do.

Would you consider it? (And thank you for proving Pep wrong...she's hardly ever wrong...might be dense, not wrong; by coming back and posting.)

(And Pep, if Gilligan could have been voted off the island, then that would mean they could leave, and they would've already, wouldn't they? And why was it his island? Hmm? And is Survivor a sequel or a remake? And why isn't it plural?)

Wow, Gilligan...a four-hour talk? Might I suggest you guys limit your R talks to one hour? One hour where she asks for facts, you answer honestly, and then schedule another hour the next day, 24 hours later, to listen only to what she feels and thinks? Then one hour the next when she listens to your stuff?

And why the call for suggestions for supper? Why not do and call to say, "I'm thinking of you. I love you. I'm here doing this...and I feel privileged to be in this home, getting to do my part...when I crapped all over it."?

Best way to handle the upcoming DDay is to speak and listen...speak your O&H..."I feel fear..." "I feel pain from my shame, my remorse, right now." and "I want to be with you through all the days of our lives...the really painful ones and the joyous ones, too. I want to know what you're thinking, feeling, right now. I am grateful when you share with me."

Stop reading her moods and declaring her okay or not okay. Wait until she states her stuff to know it...DJs creep in with all the reading, the mood judgments...know your own and share them. That's respect and love.

You're walking the road of redemption...and recovery. You have personal recovery and marital recovery. Focus on your stuff...tell her how much of yourself you saw in Truheart's letter...how you felt...how you feel...what you are learning, what is vibrating in your chest when something resonates...a truth you didn't know you had...

You can do this. You are acting from love...make sure it aligns with your intent to act from love...and feel your own joy, know your own mood and respect you are two separate people, choosing to live this journey together.

Would you consider joining Alanon?

LA

First this is to Nikko I really needed to think about your question to answer it.
It depends on the day and the session. I feel I am progressing and learning so many things about both of us. In the case of the BS many wonderful things I didn’t or chose not to see and understand. As for myself a lot of the past things I greatly dislike. The new things are great.
My BS makes the comment about just wanting the old me back. My comment to that is why would you want that person back he’s the one that did all of this and I really don’t like that person. I like myself lots more now than then even with all the problems , probably more now than ever. I individually will make it nad am learning more each day.Jennifer doesn’t say much about where we are at ,just that we are doing good . Bs still wants to quit.
BS says is still on square 1. As far as the marriage I pray daily that we make it together. I make huge deposits daily that’s what counselor says anyway.
Next CC statements came yesterday, made a special call to tell BS. We have said we would open them together. I know if there is anything to be found or remembered it won’t be in my favor. BS got home at 6:15 we ate and then she got on MB to check thread . Then I got on when I came out at 6:55 she had opened the statements said just wanted to make sure that’s what they were before our session with Jennifer at 7:00.
After that I had some business things we jointly said needed to be taken care of. BS said was exhausted and going to bed when I came in a little later BS was going thru statements , comment was organizing them by dates. I came in later to bed and the first question was what was this for and we didn’t agree on this purchase. Well so much for opening them together. BS ended up going to sleep angry at me. Me I didn’t sleep at all felt like I was LB and DJ to the max. probably shouldn’t after all I have done. BS says I have a lot of lies of silence ( they are things known but not told unless specifically asked about a certain thing.)
I have been asking the question of the day, we both need to think about all day then answer and explain why we answered the way we did. Today it was How many lies of silence do you have , and I know you have or had some . I was told some about something I wasdrug thru the wringer for myself. I haven’t even asked yet why we didn’t open the statements together. Need input.

Gilligan

La thanks for the suggestions

Gilligan:


Welcome back to the Island. We are quite friendly here......


I wanted to ask about this?



How many lies of silence do you have?

Let me ask you how do you answer that?

Because that is not really a question. It's a request to reveal all. But it is so broad, you do not know where to start, and therefore never move.

Should you reveal all? You betcha.

You reveal all by telling her the answer to the question, and then expanding the answer. But the question needs to be specific enough so that you can answer it in a thoughful way.

Did you do it in the car?
Did you meet her in our home? or OW Home?
What attracted her to you?
What did you do the first time you were alone with her?

Do you see how specific these are? Then you expand the answer as much as possible and overlap to other questions and answers you gave before.


Your W wants to know all the details. You say you have told her things that would make "your eyes fall out" That is your opinion. Not hers. You need her to make that determination.

Follow the one hour suggestion. Discuss this stuff for only one hour a day. Get into the habit.

About the credit card statement? Review the EN's. Is she concerned about the financial security of the household, or that you may have made purchases that had not been discussed? Independent behaviors here? Do you have guidelines? Let her know beforehand that you need to purchase items above a certain amount? And if you have done it, let her know before the statement comes? Define some boundaries here.

I am sorry if I forget to answer some of the posts right a way , sometimes I have so much going thru my head that I lose track of what I have answered.
First I am not against joining anything LA if it will help us out , or just me for that matter. I have heard of alanon but don’t know exactly what it is, if you could explain what it is and what it does I would appreciate it .
Next, how many lies of silence do I have, none that I know of that I am avoiding telling BS about. I am and have been revealing all, but am told BS doesn’t believe me . 1 yes, 2 NO! , NO. 3 I thought we were 2 like people , both work aholics , Also did things like sent baked goods home with me, let us use 1 of there vehicles when we needed 1 cause ours broke down, and other misc. that made me feel admired and appreciated. 4 talked about our pasts some.
BS really doesn’t want to limit to 1 hr. I understand wants to get it all in open, (already is).
The CC statements show only that I know how to spend money . household stable. Made lots of purchases with out discussions,so did BS. BS also has CC’s that I’m not involved with. Both of us have been acting independently of each other. Have since set some guidelines up for myself called POJA. No spending without agreement!
It is DD ,talked to BS once on phone today. We both seemed ok, However on the way home from work BS was upset said remembered other things about A. when got home they really were not anything new.
After our meal BS went to computer and played solitaire for an hr. and a half. Then said didn’t feel good and needed to lie down. That is where at now. In the last wk. Has been very distant toward me. Not sure of why.
Have asked but get no real answer. Going in now to talk to BS if feels up to it . thanks for the suggestions and just listening.




Gilligan

I haven’t posted in quite a while . I have been reading though , DD came and went with no good results .
Next we had to put our family pet down , that was hard for both of us, Corp. taxes were next on our agenda
Getting them out of the way we went back to us. BS has kept getting more distant ,every time we talk about A
I am just called a liar, told she doesn’t want to here the lies , and BS turns on her side and goes to sleep ,or gets up and plays solitaire. She wants me to tell her things that I feel in my heart are not true, like when PA started .
I believe with all my heart that it started in June 06 , Her comment is that’s a lie . That is when I truly believe it started.
Next she discontinued our counseling with Jennifer, I really don’t agree with this , but it won’t do any good for me to do joint counseling by myself.
Last week was her birthday wouldn’t let me do anything for it . Yesterday she saw OW in her car , asked how I felt seeing her ? First I only saw the car and second I really didn’t care . BS comment was yes you do I could see it in your eyes , WRONG,what she saw was my reaction to her expression and comments .
BS says I’m the perfect FWS now but doesn’t help her with the past . I can’t change the past or at this time help her with it if she doesn’t believe that I’m truthful at all. At this point I’m beginning to believe that our M is over which is something I truly don”t want , But I’m not giving up ever .




Gilligan

Gilligan,

What are your timelines? Dday and such? Your BS may be in the "anger" stage 6-8 months. Please be patient with her and answer her questions over and over again if need be. Be tender, she's hurting and scared inside.

Thanks Bringiton for responding DDay was feb 14th . I am and have been answering the questions only to get the responses I previously stated , it is very frustrating ,I am accepting responsibility for my actions, but not getting anywhere. I am not giving up though.
New update my FIL is now staying with us , that developed last nite . I have no problem with this, But when we retired for the nite BS got up and went to another room and spent the nite there , saying that she couldn’t sleep, I got up in the middle of the nite and shut the TV off in the room she was staying in.

Gilligan

gilligan....could it be that she doest feel you are getting it? just going thru the motions but not exactly understanding just what she has endured? until she truelly feels you understand and get it...she will never heal.

Gil

she ain't kilt ya yet

so, yer still on the Island dude

repeat after me:

I will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to make this right

Pep

This is to Pepperband
Well you were right I got kicked off the Island, but you weren’t right about the other thing , when she told me
Today that we were thru I felt like I did die.
Today I came home from work to try to get something accomplished with our problems . Well I sure as h***
Did I succeeded in destroying 32 yrs of marriage.
I said EA started in 04 late and PA started in june 06. Well guess what she was right she proceeded to show me & prove to me that it went on for a long time . When I looked at the PA I didn’t think and I mean think about Kissing as a PA , well she showed me the errors of my thinking and said she didn’t want to talk about it anymore. Months back she said she would get to a point & not want anymore answers,then she would be finished with me .The sad part is I have been learning so much about A’s and about both of us. PA means any contact physically , kissing is physical.She has also been telling me this for a long time also.
You know her by her postings, I don’t know her name that is something we agreed on that it wouldn’t help either of us if we knew ea.other
She needs lots of good and understanding people to talk to not someone like me.
Her life , 3 kids, 6 grand kids lives I have basically ruined. She told me once that she feels like Frogger & that’s probably true, I see the similarities. I’ll sstill read, but I am having trouble facing up to all the good people out there that tried to help us, and for that I’m grateful.
I guess I never had what it took to get rescued from the disaster I put us in.
I have mixed emotions on if I should continue posting, but thinking about it maybe I will be able to help other FWS’s that truly want to save their marriages, then mine maybe won’t seem like I threw our’s away and made it a total loss.
Thanks Gilligan
P.S. I’ll never forget our GD’s birthday cause it’s today.

Gilligan,

I have read this post through and through and I don't feel you have gotten all of this straight yet. One thing you have not gotten straight is that you had choices to make and so did/does your W.

She is playing games with you, if she knew the answer, and continued to quiz you on it. The game is can you read my mind, can you figure out what I really want (date of first kiss vs. date of full on PA).

You cannot do anything about her decisions and you seem to have done your best including counseling with Jen. I am guessing that your W has wanted out for some time given what you post as her lack of effort. If I knew her posting name I would go and read her side of this.

However, I will point out, that you should continue to post and learn because she can change her mind. You are NOT divorced yet, and yes you do need to continue to work on yourself and your issues. You are not accountable for her issues. The affair yes, the marriage only in tandum with her.

Hang in there and don't give up.

God Bless,

JL

jl----if you have never lived with a constant liar....its hard to understand. its not a game....its how we measure honesty. i have done it also....if i KNOW the answer i will ask him and see if he lies. unfortunately mine almost always does also. it is the only way to measure the truth.

i dont think gilligans wife wants out----she wants the truth...and gilligan isnt giving it to her.(well maybe he is but not when she asks....only when she allready has it.)

gilligan, is the ow completely out of your lives...