I GET IT!!!! TOTALLY!! I love analogies. that one makes perfect sense, I just didn't see it.



I am going to buy a ticket, just scraping up the change first:)

Whew, I'm glad you got it. That turned out to be tougher to explain than I though.

I guess some people prescribe to the roller coaster being for only those recovering, but I see it for ALL, to learn of themselves and recover themselves. To prescribe to MB FULLY is to jump on that coaster, alone or together.

OK, I have been strict NC for 48hours.....its a start. I keep telling myself dark,dark,dark

today is tough because my friend L told me that the reason WS was so hysterical the other day was because she had just broken up with OP. and WS is starting to realize what a pile of dung she has made of her life(per friend L).

I did resend PBL and WS only called me 2x in the past 2 days. probably why my plan B is so strong, less temptation.
she did call and I let it go to voicemail. we may have to connect tomorrow in regards to visitation as we are getting a huge snow storm tomorrow and I don't want my kids out in that..but then she will say "I want to see my kids, I miss them, can't I just come and visit?" I can see it playing out. I think I may take a pre-emptive strike out and email her with the no, no and no before hand...sounds good to me.

another ???? if she really did end it with OP, and I know she is not confident in being able to keep NC, this woman is laying it on thick. how long do I give her to "stay strong" and "stay away from OP" before I let her crawl back...not that she has even said a bleeping word about it....gosh, she is stubborn...it could take 6 months for her to utter an "I'm sorry" admitting she is wrong is like cutting off her right arm.

sorry, just thinking outloud.

I think you need a clear set of conditions that you can present to her when she comes back and says she wants to work it out. If you don't have them yet, you should start working on them (I hope you need them soon). Until she indicates that she wants to come back, though, I think you don't do anything but stay dark in your Plan B.

I hear you on the admitting wrong thing and worry sometimes that it will prevent us from recovering. It's so frustrating for me, because I think that I am quick to admit my own mistakes and take responsibility for them. WW just doesn't seem to be able to do it.

Stay strong. You're getting results! Keep up the good work!

Remeber fighting, there are conditions in the PBL. She knows what has to be done, and it is [email]d@mned[/email] tough for the WS to do them. They will fight it every inch of the way. Let me tell you, even with conditions in place, its an uphill battle for them to maintain, as REAL life sets in, and the day to day comes. It's boring, it's rough, and they miss the excitement provided by the OP.

She has to be COMMITTED. Accept nothing less. Believe me, that early sign of commitment (oh, I'm with you, I'm in it to be happy, to be great) that goes away P-R-E-T-T-Y quickly, as withdrawal sets in. They go back to being that monster, that alien that is only out to destroy everything for a fix. As you can see, it's rough, accept nothing less.

gotcha!
this is WAY less than what I want!


so, this morning WS's office was closed, as was school as a result of 9 inches of snow. WS called this morning, talked to my son who proudly announces that "Mommy is coming to sled with us". I knew it.

she came in with 3 roses, red for me, pink for DD and yellow for her mother. then she took her jacket off and had a t-shirt belonging to OP on....I know because it was one of those marathon shirts....I found one in my laundry a week ago as well.

I did not speak to her directly until I saw the shirt, I said "you've got to be kidding me" then I told her to go out and spend time with the kids because soon after that she would be leaving. she tried to come back after the sledding and do the dishes and I said
"no, no, no...its time for you to go now" she thanked me for making her feel so welcome and I thanked her for "putting her A in my face AGAIN" and she left.

Happy St. Valentine's Day........Happy Anniversary to me....anniversary of our first kiss...ugh

OK, NEXT time, I what??? stop her at the door....run away... maybe I could get on the treadmill...I tried to be silent but the panic got me again.

I have to thank you SDG, because I was remembering your post about how WS's wont hear anything we say. I was about to really let her have it, tear into her, say some nasty stuff and I thought to myself 'why bother, she wont get it' it really allowed me to be silent and let her leave.

You can tell her that she will not be entering your house as long as OW is with her. OW is not welcome, but she is.

sl, I have little confidence that WS is going to have the tenacity for getting it done. has always kind of skated by in life. rarely puts her all into anything. fear is a big factor. hard not to internalize that as "I am not worth it" even though I KNOW this is HER stuff.

what about letting her go through WD on her own, in her own apartment...then when she has had OP out of her life for say...a month or two, then accepting her back. I know it sounds silly as she has not even asked to make things work....but she is a carpet sweeper...every thing goes under. she is trying to pretend nothing happened.

my friend L thinks she just doesn't know what to do to "make it right" (supposedly she has had NC with OP for a few days?) she is looking for guidance from me. well, I made those mistakes before. I can't do this legwork for her. she has GOT to figure it out on her own. I am tempted to say...yes go figure it out on your own and when you are ready...THEN call me. I guess I am jumping the gun as she has yet to speak a word to me...but I am frustrated.

anyway..today is better than yesterday. I will take it. the roller coaster is on its way up

You two have children together, and share something that no other person has with her. That being said, she needs to find her way home to you. If you have made it CLEAR as to what she needs to do, then when she does them, you'll have your answer.

What are your conditions for recovery? Does she know what they are or atleast how to get you to discuss them? If so, then all you need to do it quietly live day to day. She knows what has to be done. Do NOT allow her to confuse you now. If you let her come home under lesser circumstances, you will repeat what you are going through right now. I KNOW, I've experienced it. Who knows, I may have to experience it again, if WH cannot last through withdrawal.

this is a huge problem...and relates to a major problem in our R prior to A. she has never had to take the first step. she just left it to me. when we had a problem I would talk, talk talk, tell her what we needed to do to fix it and she would withdraw, barely communicate, I would pull teeth, put words into her mouth and tell her how she felt.

NOW, I see how disrespectful my actions were and I am done helping her communicate...so now I am left with her stunted communication. there is zero attempt. I am starting to realize that all these offers to take me to dinner may be an attempt to get me on neutral ground so we can 'talk'
my friend Carol is really pushing me to go out with her to 'see what she has to say'

I am unsure how to proceed. in a way I realize how difficult it is for her, but if I let my guard down and she says nothing of any worth, I will have broken my plan B and will look weak.

I think she is attempting withdrawal on her own and as she is also someone who CANNOT BE ALONE she is seeking out anyone and everyone(including a professor she once had an attraction to) to spend time with. my friend carol says, you wanted her to ax OP, well, she did, now go and try to be open with her. but to me I need more than words...I need actions.

I asked WS point blank if she was ready to remove OP from her life forever...I got silence. thats a big huge sign for me.. thats not NC...thats not what I want. but should I help open the door to MB? should I send her an email about withdrawal. she has NO idea about withdrawal, but I think she may take to it as she has refered to her feelings for OP as an addiction. and has told more than one of our friends that she "knows she doesn't want to be with OP, but has to get it out of her system" she may think she has to do it on her own as she doesn't want to come back until she is ready, doesn't want to hurt me again.

I was thinking of sending her a copy of SAA in the mail, or do I just stay dark and let her find her way completely on her own...I am so afraid she will fail...ugh!!!!

I am fighting my instincts, or more like my bad habits of trying to save her...this bites!!!!!

dark, dark, dark

It sounds like you're trying to get inside the head of a WS, and that, what, that way lies madness? I would hold out for experts, but I don't think you can go wrong with staying dark.

However, a reiteration that you have every confidence that your relationship can be rebuilt but that giving up the OP is just One of the requirements before you'll even Talk about it might be in order.

My WS (like most) is incapable of reading anything right now and has been all along. Yours might be hurting enough to get some help from it, though. I'll be interested in what the experts say.

madness I am in for...I broke my plan B yesterday...all on my own...no help needed from WS... I found an unknown phone # on my bill...called WS to ask whose she thought that might be...she lied...I called the # and OP answered. Lovely way to start the day. at the time I played innocent, nut I knew exactly what I was doing.

I am disgusted with myself...only I am to blame...I hit the deck hard yesterday....consumed with A thoughts...them together...how could she do this...blah blah blah. you see, I am blessed wioth a photographic memory. yup, I am one of those women who can tell you what you were wearing in 1984 at that party for work that you don't even remember being at. I remember everything, especially when there is emotional signifigance....boy, am I in trouble.

why does it hit so hard some days? amd others I feel invincible...I guess I get to confident in my strength, think I can handle it...don't take the necessary precautions to protect myself....and there I am back in the thick of it!!!

I am so $#@%^&*ing angry, at myself mostly, but also WS, and the world at large!!

Just remember that every time you break Plan B, you help the OW and hurt yourself. But don't beat yourself up - lots of us broke Plan B (and even had SF).

It took me a couple of months to get the hang of Plan B. When I went completely dark, WH called and announced he was in the process of moving back in. Unfortunately he still was in contact with OW.

But the darker you go, the better for you and your relationship.

Sorry, FB. I know how hard it is. I'm fighting it right now.

The good thing is that you know what you need to do and know that you can.

I think WS is instituting NC on her own, without my input...she wont talk about it with me AT ALL> I am still attempting plan B, but as you can see having a hard time.

I don't know where to go from here. can she do withdrawal without me. she knws my conditions for NC then why hasn't she discussed what she is doing?? maybe she is not so confident that she can stay away from OP, and doesn't want to bring me into the equation until she is SURE that its over???

she needs a very comfortable environment to open up, and in plan B I am certainly not providing that. she has stated to others how distant i am. I think she may be confused about my purpose, but I don't want to break plan B to find out she is not ready for the next step.

I am lost at sea. any help?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

She is not stupid. She knows that she needs to have no contact with the OW. Stay dark, and don't try to "explain" what she already knows.

My ex was the same way. He liked to pretend that I was being distant for no reason. But he knew what I needed, just didn't want to do it.

Your WW can have NC, and when she does, she will let you know. In the meantime, don't give her a fightingback fix.

of course you are right, believer. I guess I just needed a bit of a reality check here from those of you who understand the best. I have been getting a certain amount of 'pressure' (for lack of a better word) from outside influences. lots of "she's really working on herself" and "she's making changes" also some of "she is done with OP I just know it" "why don't you just spend some time with her and see?"

its hard to stay dark when I hear all of this because it kind of makes me think that she will soon be at my doorstep begging me back, and saying those words I have been waiting for. you know like...
"I'll do anything you ask, if you give me another chance to make our M work"
"I love YOU and only YOU and never want to be apart again"
"I have missed you more than anyone ever in my life, I can't live another day without you"

so ...wanting this so bad ...I think I am getting weak...maybe considering letting my guard down...making it easier for her to meet my boundary....in the end would mean me moving my boundary line in order for her to be able to meet it. getting my hopes up is not a good idea. and NC is a boundary that I CANNOT let go of. there will be nothing, if NC is not met.

just feeling a bit defeated. then I find out that she went out with a professor she used to have a crush on. then told friends "I am over that, I just had to see for myself what it was all about"

it is madness sdg as you said. and it hurts to think she is trying to remove OP from her life, but now is using this 'freedom' to explore who else is out there. I can't tell you how much this hurts. why would anyone do this? I am too close to even see it objectively. it just hurts so bad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

fb,
my FWS also tried online dating after OW got tired of him, but before he "hit bottom".
until they are remorseful for having hurt you, they won't be willing to meet your Plan B requirements and/or go NC with OP.
hang in there. it does get better.
how are you at "detaching"? you need to do this for your own mental health. if well-meaning friends are giving you info about WW, then gently ask them not to. it will be much easier to focus on yourself.
you need to go darker...
hugs,
cgw

My take on the sitch, you SHOULDN'T even KNOW what is going on with your WS. The fact that you do points to a weak Plan B.

I had NO idea what my WH was doing. I assumed A LOT, but never really knew, not until he came home and TOLD me what he had been up to, and there are still things that I don't know YET. See, you would do much better attempting to DETACH from her. If she is doing this to come back to YOU, then when you RESEND the PBL letter, she will know the path home.

What are your conditions for opening yourself up to her? Did you elude to them in the PBL. If not, she needs to know what the conditions are (NC with OP, counseling--IC, couples counseling/M counseling, Openness and HONESTY, No secrets, etc.)

Please listen to those who have gone down this road before. False recovery ABOUNDS here; I had one and many other have too. Even with my WH in on the recovery process this time, I still feel tentative about our R, for now. I am only telling you to back yourself up, here. Except no less than is REALLY necessary to recover.

(((((fighting)))))