I am feeling stronger this morning....spent about 24hrs scraping myself off the floor...with regrets of the past haunting me. a close friend told me to focus on DOing! not so much on the why's and what if's. so thats what I'm a gonna do.

with this whole detachment thing I have been really able to focus on myself...what I want and need...and I am realizing that I have never spent so much time thinking about me. I have lived my life "other-centered" too worried about everyone else to pay attention to my own needs.

It is so hard to just believe in myself, to just be ok with what I think, to just be ok with what I feel, when for so long I believed that anyone else's opinion mattered more than my own. why is it so hard to change that about myself? why is it so hard to believe in myself? so hard to believe in my needs, my feelings, my purpose. I am full of such self doubt. maybe because of the mistakes I have made in the past, how can I be sure I wont keep making the same ones over and over. for so long I trusted in others to decide for me. I am so trusting to a fault yet I cannot even trust myself to know what is best for me. it is overwhelming to think that I am the only one who can effect change in my life. but then again empowering as well, since my actions are the only thing in this life I actually can control.

whew!!! plan B is really helping me view my life differently. things are changing...it is scary but I know I will come out on top. and maybe have a renewed sense of myself. that is something, right??

its strange but I feel my goal has shifted from 'making my M work at all costs' to 'pursuing real happiness with someone who believes in me.' I have been waiting for the smallest sign from my WS...anything...just one single step to "prove" that she can love me. now, I realize that one step wont be enough to show me that love....but many consistent and purposeful steps over and over and then I may start to believe again.

I have decided that I can't wait and watch anymore...I can't believe in something I can't see and feel anymore. I can believe in myself though.. and I am starting to.

FB,
you're getting there!
glad to hear you worked yourself out of your funk.
I totally understand your "need to please". I did that too! once I went to Plan B, it took awhile (maybe a month) for me to go from "we" to "me" talking. I had not connected with "I" for years.
there is power in goal-setting. what are your goals for yourself?
hugs,
cgw

hmmmm, goals for myself....hadn't really gotten there.
#1 rid myself of unneccessary guilt. #2 rid myself of WS(planB) and I guess I would like to redocorate the kids rooms...take a small vacation just for me. I rented a beach cottage in maine for the kids and I for a week this summer. make some investments with my half of the money WS and I had saved. spend time with friends.

I 'll have to think a bit more on personal goals....I guess I have been banking on simply getting from one day to the next...but now I am on a full week of NC with WS...and I am feeling great

WS, btw is starting to push back a bit harder.
I have recieved 3 emails, 3 phone calls, and 2 texts. in that context 2 dinner invitations, stating we need to take baby steps and all. I had only responded to one email with child care arrangements. but I have to see her face to face tomorrow. I am thinking of having my MIL be there for the exchange so I can avoid contact. keep on trucking:)

thanks everyone for all your support:)

FB,
I kept my mantra: "in order to preserve my love for you, until you can meet my Plan B letter requirements (voluntary NC, give up secret cell, close secret email accts & give me passwords, etc.) I can not have more than a business relationship with you."
then...and only then...once he had started to meet these requirements...did I agree to meet with him for dinner.
if you cannot avoid contact with her tomorrow, then try repeating your mantra. you'll probably have to do it several times until she gets it.
I had a couple of false recoveries until I got to the point where I could do this. I figured out that the darker I stayed, the quicker he would get the message: I cannot be your friend while you are a WS. (my FWS says that hurt him the most--loss of my "friendship".)
fortunately, he came around. today he "gets it" and does not fault me for having to go this route.
one day, hopefully your WW will too...
hugs,
cgw

FB,

Keep up the good job there. I'm in Dark Plan B as well; since the New Year. My WW also tries to fog talk her way to eat more cakes; stay focus and don't deter.

God speed!!

My WW also tries to fog talk her way to eat more cakes; stay focus and don't deter.

thanks for the help cgw and mike

I ended up having a conversation with WS today....she had to drop off the kids. I found out that she currently has a class with OP (contrary to what she had told me before) and that she has to see her every week. but, get this...they are not seeing each other, she wants to take "baby steps" to recovery in the form of dinner. it was a very quick conversation.

I pretty much just said.."NC is NC, how do you plan on handling contact and the class sitch? will you withdraw or wait out the semester?"
WS "well, I am already up to my midterm..it would be silly to withdraw now"
BS "that is your choice, my choice is not to be involved with you while you have C with OP"
WS...silence...she got the point

no deterent!!! I feel so on top of my game!!!!
back to DARK, DARK< DARK!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

good job FB!

fb,

This is not funny but I have to chuckle because I have the same cake eating story from my WW the other night. She wants to make her way back to our marriage by doing baby step things like start talking on the phone, going on dates, dinner, movies etc… She told me the OP who is her personal trainer is “out of the picture”, then she told me he’s going to train her for free for another 2 months until her gym membership runs out. I bet he will, train her that is. WTF, are we that gullible? Do they have a class on ‘Cheater 101’???

My respond: Sorry, Homey can’t come out to play. Back to the Dark Plan B hole.

Stay dark, guys! You're doing great.

ok, need help here......

WS called and told me that she is "done with OP" cannot drop class as she is in Law school and cannot drop mid semester. says she was "wrong to do what she did" wants to get together to talk about recovery. I am very resentful, also she will have to see this person every week, until may for class.

is this unrealistic? should I just wait until may to even TALK about anything??? WS says she has barely any time to breath as she is overscheduled with work, school and kids so she cannot go to IC, but does want to go to MC with me. I cannot gauge this. I have conditions that are not met. and she wont talk about HOW the R with OP ended because she is afraid that even talking about OP will make me angrier, more hurt.

I am going to take a few days to digest, but I have NO idea what to do......I keep telling myself that I have conditions that are not met, but she wants to take "baby steps" wtf does that mean...arghg

help <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

ok...first, you breathe.
no, she's not meeting your PRIMARY requirement of NC. she is still giving you crumbs. if she REALLY wanted to go NC, then she would be giving up that class...no matter if she loses credit, $$, or what. it's that important!
my FWH came back several times...whenever things got rough with OW & she threw him out... this sounds like things are rough between OP & WW, not that they're over.
stay strong!
remember: ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS
hold out for true NC (and the other conditions you specified in your PBL.)
hugs,
cgw

I am soooo strained....panicked right now....I am not going to give her any more opportunities to talk until I know what to say back. I guess my conditions would be NC with OP, but that will not be possible. so..do I lower my standards?
I know the answer to that question, but I need some support here. maybe waiting until may will help me manage some of my resentment. I am sooo angry...I am sooo hurt...just talking to her has brought it all back, and I can't manage it. I want to go back to the safety of plan B...back to the place where she can't hurt me anymore. I am so afraid.

she went on to say that I had to take responsibility for the things that I did in the R. I agreed and then she started talking about where I faultered. I was NOT in the mindset to hear this crap. I want to see some remorse!! ugh, I KNOW I am not supposed to expect that, that I am supposed to take her back no questions asked and just move forward...but HOW? I can't even look at her without feeling hurt.

she goes off...with that hoe...then lies...breaks my trust...makes me doubt the quality of person that I am...then makes me beg for her sorry a55 back...then she leaves me...abandons me....puts me through more months of heck by vascillating back and forth between us...then I finally get the balls to do what makes me feel good, and NOW she says "I was wrong"...one simple sentence for all my pain and suffering?....does that seem fair?....is that enough...not for me...then the next question i have for myself is....
what will be enough??? and I don't know if anything EVER will be enough to make it right!!!!
maybe a letter like SL got ftom her FWH...thats more up my alley...until then I am back to plan B, yup just decided right now, got to go back to feeling strong.

!@#@$#%*&_(*(*^@!@$%%

Tell her that you love her very much, but you're not willing to settle for 'baby steps'. You need ACTIVE PROGRESS in order to determine if YOU want to resume relationship with her.

And make it clear to her that while she's in ANY kind of contact with OW, there is always the risk of the A continuing or resuming...and you're not willing to accept her back while that risk is still there. PERIOD.

Feel free to reiterate to her that you love her and want to salvage your relationship...but at the same time, you're not willing to blindly put your heart at risk again. Tell her that its on HER to prove that she's safe to be with again. Just my thoughts.

Just read your subsequent post...

Tell her that you accept your failures in the R.

But...those did NOT give her the 'right', the 'excuse' to do what she did to you. And that she needs to accept HER part in this as well...which includes her own failures in the R, and of course in going to OW as well.

SET BOUNDARIES NOW.

Do NOT let her set conditions on recovery...it's up to HER to meet YOUR conditions.

owl, I like you view... I may us some of your words. thanks for your input///is it OK that I have little confidence of this R working?? should I just tell her its over so we can both move on?...it seems I feel more like moving on and less like keeping myself open everyday. I don't want to lead her on or be dishonest either.



thanks cgw...she thinks that is unrealistic...but I KNOW how critical it is. and i wont budge on it. I can't talk to het anymore...this is nuts to go back to this...i am going to give myself a few days to digest , then maybe resend plan B letter? I don't know, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I'm not sure exactly what to tell you, FB, but I wanted you to know that I'm listening and pulling for you. I think you could certainly do worse than continuing a dark Plan B.

she needs to feel the pain/loss of your meeting her EN's.
she needs to realize that the only way to recover your relationship is thru NC.
stay dark & remember to follow her actions and not her words.
hugs,
cgw

DARK. Go toward the DARK! You must see actions of a WS that WANTS to be a FWS!

I saw that; I really did, but NC is tough on the WS, and can suck them quickly back into the A. DO NOT SETTLE AT ALL. Even when you don't settle or loosen up those boundaries, RECOVERY is tough, and withdrawal is horrible. No settling, no crumbs. You have given her the letter ,she knows what has to be done, and if it requires HER waiting the semester out, and then sending the NC letter, the so be it. You may not be willing to take her back then, but that is a chance that SHE is willing to take.

WS has had panic attacks the past 2 nights...has not slept at all...I know this because she has called me multiple times breaking down...leaving messages for me to call her right away. at one point last night I did call her back because I was nervous about the way she sounded and she had the kids.

she asked me to come over and I said that I couldn't...but asked if she was ok?? I was so worried all night...didn't sleep at all...but I know it was the right thing. she was stand-off-ish this morning at the drop off. but I can take it. this is so hard. I know what I want and I feel like I have guidelines, but she is out there floundering with no real purpose and no real direction....its hard to watch.

espec the panic attacks...my friend L suggested that it was like a kid learning to sleep on their own all night...like she has to learn that she can handle it alone...and she will be ok....she has been so dependent on me for that comfort...I just can't be there now for her...it bites!! and it scares me...she still is not in IC..says she has no time...she just wont help herself...i hate watching it.

Dark, FB. Stay dark.

It sounds like she's sucking you back in and getting you to break your plan B. It's hard to watch because you're watching it. Stop watching. Detachment, remember?

You can do it. Stay dark!