Keep off of my car thread...Really, just kidding.

Really. I'm resolved, Frog. I failed to mention to you that I spent years in therapy to work on that stuff. My father died 10 years ago.

I have lots and lots of INSIGHT into myself and my relationship with my mother. I certainly am GROWING in my understanding of myself but have lots and lots of INSIGHT about who I am and who she is. I'M AT SUCH A GREAT PLACE WITH MYSELF. It's unbelievable. I'VE NEVER BEEN HAPPIER..EVER...

I'm at this place in my life where I much more prefer "BEHAVIORAL INTERVENTIONS"...BEHAVIOR CHANGE... my focus is on joy and happiness and not dwelling on the past.

I'm into acceptance of who I am and what I believe in...

I know it's not a PC belief..but I'm not a proponent of DIVORCE. When it happens, it saddens me. I will not REJOICE about it. That's my belief. I have no desire to change that belief.

And my M's H is a jerk, IMO..but I'm not married to him. If she wants to be married to a man whom I experience as being a jerk, that's her choice. I pray that she is happy with him because she needs companionship..OK and more..at her age but I'm not ever going to LIKE HIM. I DON'T CHOOSE TO EVER TRY TO LIKE HIM....He is YUCKY..with a capital Y...

Frog,

My mother divorced my father, after he spiralled way down with drinking and verbal/physical abuse. It was the best decision she could have made, and the most DESIRABLE outcome for our family, as my father never stopped drinking and died from complications due to cirrhosis. I would not have wanted to grow up in that environment. I don't think he worked a day past when we left him.

I don't agree with many divorces, but many battered women EVENTUALLY do REJOICE over the change/divorce, especially if they work toward self-healing and love...

Ok, SL. That is an extreme example. Of course, it is necessary for a woman to divorce a batterer..but the ENTIRE SITUATION IS SADDENING..the fact that she even married him in the first place...there's not really REJOICING afterwards is there?

When my mother and father were initially together, she tells me of how happy they were, and how much they loved one another. There are so many reasons why things went downhill for them, loss of a job, increase in alcohol abuse, increasing financial obligations with an increasing number of children; lack of support by either family...

My father was sick, and was not going to get better without HIM wanting it; it may have just been too much for him to do, very selfish behavior...

I do think, however, that when you marry someone and there are no largely unhealthy, physically/mentally abusive behaviors, a marriage can and SHOULD be worked on, to keep a family whole together. Only after that can I say that D may be the Desirable sitch for some. I don't find it desirable, as my son will now suffer the consequences of a broken home, which seems to mean nothing to so many these days...

Geez SL I think we have the same dad. That is exactly what happened.

Even the cirrhosis part.

The point is it is desirable to leave a bad situation. I can't think of anyone that wants to be stuck in a bad situation forever.

Some people just change or the real person comes out.

I beleive as SL does barring the major stuff it should be worked on. By BOTH people.

The point is it is desirable to leave a bad situation. I can't think of anyone that wants to be stuck in a bad situation forever.

Some people just change or the real person comes out.


I think this is part of my WH's justification for his behavior; he truly believes ours was a 'bad situation'.

"...I've changed"
"..I don't want to be in a loveless M, so I WANT to fall in love again, with OW," blah blah blah, yada, yada, yada

He'll learn that 'good love is hard to find, you got Lucky babe, when I found you'...(Tom Petty)

But your H has faulty, alien WS thinking, SL.

A MARRIAGE is not some SITUATION that you leave when things go bad or wrong.

It is a SACRED UNION... sanctioned by GOD...forsaking ALL OTHERS..until parted by DEATH...that is the MARITAL VOW...

GOD brought you together and EVILNESS is trying to tear you apart.

That's my viewpoint...

my H also believes he "has changed" and "is a different person now"

there are things about everyone that changes.....but the core of who you are? can that really change after 40 years (or so?)

and the committment that you made to love, honor, and cherish until death.....well that's not supposed to change

that's the whole point of marraige

My WH "still loves me, but not in the way it takes to sustain a marriage." What a load of BS (and in this instance I mean bull...., not betrayed spouse).

Sustain and marriage are ONE AND THE SAME. It's too early in the morning for me to articulate that more clearly, but you probably get the picture. Marriage = perserverence, Marriage = commitment. Marriage REQUIRES, by definition, sustinence.

Marriage isn't just a noun. It's also a verb. I do believe what mimi said is correct...WS's who are fully in the fog think of marriage as a "situation." Like an apartment that you live in, or what school you go to, or what car you drive (minivan or sports car?).

My 2 cents.

Mimi,

I TOTALLY agree with what you are saying, maybe I wasn't being too clear. Sarcasm doesn't come across here sometimes...

I agree that M is not to be RUN from when something goes wrong, or when it seems bad; especially considering that a lot of the time it is only ONE person who feels things are BAD--usually that points to something in THAT person that needs to be dealt with ALONG with the M.

I'm pretty sure that my WH thinks of our M as something that is situational, as LilSis said...

I will put an end to this. LOL.

I think it depends on the definition of desirable.

1. worth having or wanting; pleasing, excellent, or fine: a desirable apartment.
2. arousing desire or longing: a desirable man or woman.
3. advisable; recommendable: a desirable law.
4. a person or thing that is desirable

I think I was talking about definition 3 when I spoke. Advisable or recommendable.

Which in some cases a D fits that bill.

Look for me I finally sat down and realized a few things.

I CHANGED A LOT SINCE I MET MY FWW. I was 24-25 living with a room mate, waiting tables going to school and chasing women. My highest expense at the time was my rent which included utilites and that was $400 per month. If I lost my job it meant I had to cut back on my partying. I was a heck of a fun guy to be around.

My car payment is more then my rent was. LOL.

I do not beleive that I could stay that way and be what most people consider a respectable H and father.

My FWW changed as well. She became a Me person before an US person Us being the boys and Frog. As a matter of fact in some instances she chose what she wanted to do over what the whole family wanted to do for selfish reasons.

Now I got to the point where that wasn't Desirable in any definition of the word.

Two people in the beggining that agreed then at some point we decided at a fork to go in different directions.

I was not going to change and become selfish and demanding so I could get what I wanted. I thought she should change and be a giving person that wasn't selfish or self centered. She wasn't that way when we met.

If she wouldn't change and I wouldn't change then what next. Someone would be unhappy. I figured that person would probably have been me. So to me at that point D became desirable. When I expressed that to her she decided it wasn't for her and changed.

However if she didn't change I would have desired a D. Best course of action.

I do understand it should be worked on but sometimes things that seem bad are desirable.

In other words in the big picture I DESIRE a happy life. If my FWW or a WS or a FWS refuses to look at their actions and change when what they are doing is clearly wrong. I want to take that huge source of unhappiness and remove it.

Frog, you always do such a good job of defining what you mean...

All I can say is I have a plan and I don't plan to fail...with or without you know who... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />