In my opinion there are some parents who don't deserve any contact at all with their children. A child is not a possession.

Case in point - my s-children's mom. She has 6 kids from 5 men, ages 27 to 2. She is a nice enough woman, but has such severe problems that 5 of the 6 children have been molested by various men staying with her.

You want to believe the best about people but sometimes that just isn't the way it really is. There are some parents in general and particularly WS's (as the selfishness kicks in they become totally absorbed with themselves and their wants, needs, desires above all others including the children) that may have been good parents at one time or another just like they were good spouses at one time or another but now have morphed into this alien being.

I have tried to allow my EX WW more time with our son only to be lied to again and again, for our son to be exposed to things not in his best interest and more. I have made this mistake several times because I want to see my WIFE in there somewhere all the while she has moved out and the alien left behind is not a good mother plain and simple, therefore the alien's exposure to our son is strictly according to court order now. Extremely sad for EX WW and for our son, but only something she can control.

Well in my case I think I will be going dark plan B - which I can now that we have 50/50... I am not sure what my WW will do next week want me to pick up the kids from school as I have done for the past 4 months... or do I leave it up to her to either pay for aftercare or have her mother watch the girls.

One not saturday we all were at a 4H event with my daughter's.... she was nice, she asked me questions about our daughter's, she made sure I knew things about them that was going on, I don't know if she is on meds, if counseling is helping, if she is sucking up because of the people we were around... Or she is a bit devistated that the judge ordered what she did.....

I don't want to be friends with her, I want her as my wife. I feel if I give into her wanting to play nice that she will continue to convience herself that her actions and decisions are right, at the same time the more plan B I am the more she will think of me as an A#$ and think it was right to get awy from me.

We do have court ordered family counseling. I usually make all appointments I think this time its going to be her.

Just wanted to give you my congratulations as well. Just continue to be a strong father to your daughters.

You are rarely looked upon as "nice" when you enforce your boundaries, but that is how you gain respect.

Viking,



If that is the way you think of Plan B you are NOT ready to be in Plan B. With the amount of time that you have spent on MB, that statement just floors me.

Plan B is about detachment and removal of yourself from the chaos and hopefully provides an opportunity to retain some love for your WS. Plan B is about yes's and no's and boundaries.

So if placing a boundary on her is taken as you being an Azz and it will be because she is not used to being told no, just like my Ex WW then you will look however you look to her and there is little you can do about it. You can have boundaries without DJ, LB ing and be cordial, business like and the such without fueling her fire for disliking you.

hope that is exactly what I needed to hear, I am a rescuer and having the one that I have rescues for 12 years be ugly and mean I still find myself feeling like an A#$.

Question for the bunch.....

Lat friday in court when the lawyer's were laying out the custody - she indicated that there should be visitation on Mon-Wed of each week for the non-custodial parent. From 6-7:30. Now I have heard of 1 day like wednesday as a mid week visit for the non-custodial parent but M-W.... The girls have karate on T-Thurs and I assume she means to be at their practice, which last week she didn't want me to be there when it wasn't my day.....

I bagged up a bunch of cloths to send home to her and will leave it at that for exchanging cloths.... for the past few months I did the kids laundary and then they would take it to her place to every day and she wouldn't have to do laundary... now that we are week on week off. I am keeping cloths for the kids her and she can go get them on her own.

Now one thing about the schedule that is interesting is that when she was traveling to see OM she would leave on Thur night and stay until monday... this was when she lived in our home and didn't have bills. Now she is in her own rental and has all her own bills..... So she has to be in town on Monday to see the kids, she has to work 40 hours or more to make money on top of CS (which is 1500) This leaves her little time to sneak up to NY to see him... unless she leaves the kids with me... and I just build a bigger case for primary custody... I don't know what she could be thinking.

I guess I missed the details of the custody split. Do the two of you have a schedule to go by?

We do 50/50, Friday to Friday, with visitation on M and W from 6-7:30. The in week visitation is something that they threw in there at the last minute.... I honestly can say that I don't know my WW anymore, I don't know if she is gettting happier or sadder, I think its a bit chaotic in her head right now. What just amazes me that WS can become so internally dysfuntional.

So she went into Friday thinking she was getting full custody and came out with me having half, which is what I asked for 9 months ago, she gets CS but spousal support is still undecided, that come later this week.

She is still talking to OM in NY, but has taken the relationship underground, she was ordered to work 40 hours per week, so I am think reality is starting to come home to roost... She has started IC and maybe mebs but I am not sure. I don't think she will be coming back to me anymore so I am now just plan being to be available if she does, she has never been good in going back to something she leaves.

Working 40 hours a week will slow her down. How long since she worked outside the home? Is she looking for a job?

Viking, I hope you do get primary custody. We had 50/50 with my daughter when she was 8 yo until 12 yo, and it was very hard on her. I now have full physical custody again and he has holidays, part of the summer, school breaks if and when he is able to get her (took a new job and moved), and my daughter is doing as well now as she was before the joint custody. Of course he calls her all the time and is still very involved in her life as much as he is able.

50/50 is very hard on kids from my experience. They need to live in one house and visit the other. Maybe there are some exceptions to this depending on the child. You'll have to watch your kids closely to see how they are handling it internally as well as externally (grades, weight, acting out, sadness).

This is a huge character flaw. One built on PRIDE and low self esteem, projection and a need to be "right" at all costs. This will not bode well for her in what I see as many future relationships



I can't believe that an adulteress would be given spousal support, period!

This is not the attitude you want to portray to her. You are moving on with your life with your kids and you need to live as if she is gone for good as it will help you in the long run. She needs to do most the work if she ever wants to come back so I would advise you to live as if your WW does not exist.

She will begin to feel the consequences of recent court verdict soon enough and that may force her to hit bottom. If not...then you keep moving on. You need to show strength to your WW and waiting around for her gives the impression of neediness.

Don't be afraid to use the word "NO" with her. On the surface she will hate it, but something inside her will find that appealing.

She needs to be treated like a kid a lot of times, my daughter's are starting to out mature her in a lot of aspects. Trust me my messaging to her is that I am a single parent now, so when I exposed and when I confronted the fair, I was labled a stocker or a crazy ex-husband, I know this is all fog or at least babble. She like the fact I tried and it created drama which continued to fuel her fantasy or woows me and the OM is her rescuer. Now I am cold and dark, yes mama no mama, I present the kids schedule to her, I make the appointments so I make them during the weeks I have them. If she wants to attend the doctor's visit she can.

I think No is exactly what she needs, after 12 years of yes to everything she wanted I need to say no and say it loud.

So her is a interesting update.... My oldest (11) hurt her foot yesterday, it was has bothered for a while since the last time she hurt it in November... So I called first thing this morning and informed WW that I would be taking daughter to ER first to get checked out then scheduling an appt at our orthopedic doctor, knowint it wouldn't happen today. She argued with me that a trip to the ER is a waste. So I kept DD 11 out of school and called the Orth nurse line, got an appt for 3:15 with a surgeon just so we could get evaluated. I then informed WW, she said she insist on being there... didn't even say she couldn't... but last week in court I did mention how many times I had been to the ER/Doc with the kids and she didn't show.

So I pick up the two youngest from school and take them to the doctor's office, she meets us there. The kids are good, they sit between us. My daughter 9 says its nice to see us together without fighting. We could barely look at each other.... I get accused of staring her down when we are together - I am not I am looking at the kids or just glancing at her way and I a eyeball stoking her.

Well I had told the kids before getting to the doctor's that we could go to Chuck-E-Cheese on the way home if they were good. So we were about to check out of the office and the girls invite/beg WW to come to CEC with us, i don't resist I say its fine.... She agrees.

We get there have Pizza, she plays games with the kids I play games with the kids. She thanks me for the pizza I acknoledge her thanks. That is about all we said.... For most of the time I try and keep my back towards her, as it tend to accuse me of eye stocking her again.

We leave and I take the girls with me. We pass each other on the highway, the girls are waving and having a fun time.

I have to take the girls home, then get them ready for Karate class. I get them to karate class and she show's up, I think this is big because she has in the past said she didn't want me there when its her time with the girls and my lawyer and I have debated on since we got 50/50 that when the girls are with her I wouldn't attend karate because it would create friction, but she showing up today and possibly thursday will give me an indication on wether I should show up next week.

Now she made a comment in the doctor's office about oldest getting injured in november were the doctor said she could have broke her ankle then, but he couldn't tell if it broke yesterday or back in november.... I think WW wants to blame me for it though, even though I am the one who took our daughter to the doctor today.

What if you don't feel like you could ever loose love for your WS spouse, no matter what they do to you? Is Plan B appropriate it?

I am wondering really if I just need to do a 180, be nice and there for her but just not enabling her. She is a bit Narcissistic and Passive Aggressive so I am wondering how to alter 180 or modified Plan B for those inate characteristics

Forget about anything with your XW and just worry about being the best dad you can be to your children.

And if you don't feel like you can lose love "no matter what they do to you" I would say I have to question the validity of the feelings. It sounds more like an unhealthy infatuation. Love is not about abuse and heartache in the manner that your W has handed out. JMHO.

"What if you don't feel like you could ever loose love for your WS spouse, no matter what they do to you?"

Then you go see a counselor and work on figuring out why such a good man as you is willing to be treated so poorly by the one person who is supposed to care for him.

I can clearly draw the line from doormat to uncoditional love, I am not enabling her I am not communication with her, mostly because she is plan B'ing me... No what I am saying is that I know that I love her and that I would work on a marriage, but I don't think I need to protect myself by going into a dark Plan B because I know what my boundaries are, i am setting them and enforcing them. I choose not to go dark because doing so would allow her to win, to send our M to the darkness where she doesn't have to deal with it, where it slowly dies a unatural death. I would rather stand firm stand tall and show her the lighthouse.

Unconditional love between any two people is a dangerous and unhealthy feeling. Romantic love for people that abuse us only sets us up for more abuse.
I wish you luck... I hope you focus continues to be your children.