Dude glad to see you back but the news sucks.

I'm no pro at this but a dark plan B sounds to me like the thing to do. If DD19 is very hurt then you might enlist her in plan B as well.

Do you guys have other kids or just the one daughter?

I have always been a fan of letting the wayward take just their clothes and a can opener with them. Everything else is marital property, and they're the one leaving the marital home.

Do you think WW weighs the same as a duck?

Hi Chrisner,

It's another day....how ya doin? Need to chat sometime soon about the 'hole in bucket' thing.

Ace

Hey BB and Ace,

Thanks for being here.

Yes DD19 is our only child. It was part of all the dreaded milestones we hit last year including:

- 25th anniversary in May (EA was starting)
- DD19 graduation in May
- WW’s Grandfather died in August (EA was heating up)
- My mother died in September (A took off big 2-days later)
- DD19 moves out to college in September
- WW has 45th birthday in November (OM “slipped” her his present that night)

Ironic that we are in Plan B now and she is in a house filled with people and support and I am alone keeping the furnace around 62 degrees and watching my every dollar in the dark. Is this what they mean about a “dark Plan B.”

The weather has improved a little so I have taken to walking about a 3-mile round trip to buy a turkey sandwich for dinner and return home to eat it. I pass a theater along the way so last night I decided to go in and see “Letters from Iwo Jima.” I thought it would be nice to a least have a few people around while sitting in the dark. I was the only one in the theater for the entire movie. I think the cosmos are trying to tell me something.

“Letters” is a great movie but sitting alone in a 300 seat theater watching Japanese soldiers essentially committing suicide for 2-1/2 hours does not exactly warm an already depressed soul.

As for WW, I assume she is preparing to get an apartment and begin her new life of independence and happiness. I expect her to hit me with D papers in the next 6-weeks or so. Just about another 90 miles of walking for turkey sandwiches.

Do you think there is any real hope when the car is this far over the cliff?

BB- WW is very petite and there are probably some ducks that outweigh her. But she has indeed “turned me into a newt (erd).”

chrisner,

It took me a while to go back and read all your posts and see where you are, and how you got here. The humor of your posts, no doubt masks the painfulness of all of this....but if you don't write for a living...ya missed your callin' chere! Personally, I think your "War of the Waywards" script didn't get near enough air time! These situations are so tragic....it's not often that a BS is able to keep their wits about them. I wish the advice could be equally entertaining, but it's too easy to fall into sarcasm and vengence. However, if you haven't read Orchids "babbleback" stuff....it's right up your alley. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now, if I have the time line right:

-You discovered the A right around Thanksgiving.
-Confronted and she confessed.
-Registered here in December.
-Started a good plan A including exposure to OMS.
-For a while it looked like the affair was over and you guys had a shot.
-Then....she moved out and in with mom and dad, where her low down cheating brother was already mooching off her parents and aiding her affair.
-Now you're all alone in the dark.
-No longer sure about no contact.
-Drinking bourbon.
-Dreaming of woodchippers.
-Getting threads locked.
-And have gone to Plan B.

Is that about right?

I'm going to proceed as though it is. So....I have a few questions. Why did you go to Plan B? The answer is strictly for my curiousity (and so I know what your reasons were). Even though I think it was premature....once that boundary is set....you need to keep it in place or your wife will be looking for maple syrup to put on that waffle.

Still....I wish you'd come and posted before trodging forward....without perfecting your Plan A, or with full exposure if the affair has heated up again. I think you really need to find out for sure if there is or isn't recontact (probable)....because if there is, you need to do more exposure....specifically in the workplace. I prefer exposure to be done in Plan A...instead of B because you have a little chance to fill some needs after the big hit on the bank. However, if you discover that they are back in contact....workplace exposure sounds like the very thing to wake your wife up even from Plan B. You're scared of that exposure aren't you? Because your wife treasures her job. I know.

What is going on between your wife and daughter? I know your daughter is really upset....has she had a chance to tell her mother about her feelings? Does your wife's parents know what's going on? Do they like you? Are they some possible untapped allies?

In the meantime, now that you've jumped into Plan B, what are you doing to make this the protective and rejuvenating plan that it's supposed to be? No more suicide movies okay??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> And for pete's sake...no romances either! Go see some comedies! I like the walking/exercise stuff. What else are you interested in? The idea is to get your mind off of her and what's she's doing....and revatalize your own life in a way that makes you happier (and of course irresistible).

You asked this question:

I don't think so....I know so. That doesn't mean there's any guarantee. However, I think your situation actually sounds more hopeful and salvageable than many marriages I've already seen recovered around here. I don't know how neglectful you were (another reason why I wish your Plan A was longer), but keep demonstrating changes whether she can see them or not. These things have a way of getting back to spouses.

I could give you some suggestions about how to deal with the BIL....but we'd prolly get another thread locked. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I'm a Bw and reading a thread with bunch of BH posts is really helping me! Sorry it sounds sick but it is refreshing to hear dudes tell it like it is! LOL

Thank you for the very thoughtful and detailed post star*fish. I really do appreciate you taking that time. Your timeline is generally correct although I was dreaming of woodchippers much earlier in the process.

Regarding Plan B, I took her for her word that she was leaving to her folk’s house on Thursday if I objected (sneaking out) or on Saturday if I agreed based on the conversation she had with her brother and mother. She also made it clear in those conversations that she had no intention of returning home. She even introduced the subject to her brother of renting an apartment together. What a messed up “love nest” that would be. My mistake was confronting her that I knew the plan. I should have used this information better and played out the week with a more organized plan. Unfortunately once she was gone and we were essentially separated the only thing I felt I could do was Plan B. When she left she wanted to call every night to see how I was and maybe have a dinner every few days. As I told her mother when I brought the Plan B letter, I could not build my whole day and invest my heart around those few crumbs. That’s not living.

Regarding contact, it sounds strange but my gut feeling is he really has fled the field of battle. In three separate conversations I overheard with her brother and mother, she was asked about OM and all three times said she had no idea what he was doing and had not seen or talked to him. She would maybe lie to her mother but her brother is her confidant now and he would get the truth. On the occasion when I heard her tell her mother you could hear real anguish in her voice. Now is he gone for good? I am less certain on that.

When I look at the cell phone calls (note to Cingular customers: you can download your past years bills into an Excel spreadsheet and sort any way you want) it seems clear to me that she was the pursuer in the first 3-4 months of the EA. He seemed to really catch the bait around September after my mother died. Then the outgoing and incoming calls started to even out.

She is terrified of the implications of exposure at work and when she seemed earnest about changing jobs I hoped it was not necessary. Strange, but her fear of exposure to OMW seemed more based on her job than on the destruction of the A. Early on during the “run silent-run deep” part of the A, I told her if OM entered the picture again there would not be a person left on the planet that was not informed.

My IL’s know the whole story less the sweat and bodily fluids parts I am guessing. I believe they really do love me but will not raise a finger to her in my support. They are in their late 60’s and early 70’s and have a 40 year old (BIL) and 45 year old (WW) living with them because of infidelity. And a family rumor has it that a younger SIL who lives out of state may have walked this path once too. Incredible.

DD19 is processing what she has learned and has become very hurt and angry. She is currently dodging her mother’s calls and when they do talk she ends it quick. I have advised her that she needs to eventually share her feelings with her mother in order to start to work past it. She is also very upset with IL’s and BIL for enabling her through the process. She is particularly confused by MIL’s lack of support to me due to her outspoken conservative religious convictions, morals and values.

What do I do? I coach 6th-8th grade competitive girl’s basketball between 6 and 9 months a year. Sometimes I coach much younger kids at the local recreation center as well. I have become an avid perennial gardener over the past three years. I have an extensive history book collection and read daily. And I do love movies. All these things have taken a back seat the past few months but I am ready to renew them with a vengeance.

So why did she do this? Is she going to chase this OM or did the good feelings provided by the A make her want to throw herself back into the field for an even better prize? Financial growth and security have always been a top concern for her. She is throwing away a lot. She only earns enough to just get by on her own in an apartment. My old W would nearly perish under that kind of uncertainty and stress. What happens if DD19 turns her back on her? This should be an interesting show.

Regarding your movie selection advice, how about “Harold and Maude”? A comedy, romance ending in suicide. Brilliant!!

Hey Chrisner,

Renew, reinvigorate, recreate with a vengeance...time will heal the heart and ease the pain....speeds up the process regardless the outcome. Work on yourself and the things over which you have control.

Another thought for your time would be to insert your insights, wit and humor around these GQII boards. You were one of the reasons I registered so I have you to thank for my recent 'transition'. (Posted last night but I don't know how to link yet.)

Regarding your DD19, on Dday #1, our DD27 actually discovered the emails, could not confide in DS25 for an entire week, both confronted their dad who nearly opted for a date with a concrete barrier instead of confessing to me. (Daughter & son were right behind and that thought is probably why he did not keep that date.) They sat on the front porch and when my H went to get them, DD27 would not even come into the same room as him. She did not speak to him for 60 days....avoided, drove past if he was home....the works. But she warmed up eventually on her own and made the effort to reconnect, hugged in the driveway for what seemed like a half hour...I was peeking from the living room.

Our sitchs are a little different but the point is that adult offspring (not really children) need their processing space and the best thing we as anguishing parents can do is love them and give them space.

Hang in there, keep updating us and we'll be praying for you.

Ace

Ace,

You have got to be the most upbeat person in Betrayedville. Thanks for always checking in. I have followed your story throughout as well. Keep it up!

There is never much discussion about the adult children but they get hurt in this train wreck too. Today DD19 turned the phrase, “she left us.” Your advice on this seems quite sound and I agree.

I am going to a college hockey game tonight for fun. Cheap tickets!! I coach two basketball games on Sunday and am looking forward to these games more than any yet this year. My team deserved more of me than they have gotten these past few weeks. They saved my life during this time and I owe them big.

Maybe it’s a little of Ace’s sunshine coming through.

Ace, if you ever think you’re flying too high, go see “Letters from Iwo Jima” in an empty theater. That should bring you back to earth.

Have a great weekend. I think I will too.

Chrisner,

I am wondering, in your plan B letter did you leave your W a path back??? Most of them state that if the affair ends and there is no contact, then the Betrayed spouse is willing to open communications. What was the path you left for her?

This is very crucial both to you and to her.

I look forward to hearing from you. I too used to enjoy coaching kids basketball teams, it is actually more fun to coach basketball than watch it in my mind.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

best movie suicide in a comedy goes to ... hands down .... the dentist in Altman's M.A.S.H. ... makes Maude's suicide look ... well .... maudlin <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Don't start something that gets my thread locked Pep. If I get another thread locked they will probably kick me out. It would be like sitting in a theater all by yourself wathching a suicide movie. And don't say anything about woodchippers.

I would NEVER ....


you have to be REALLY REALLY BAD to be "kicked out" ... are you?


no no no

a comedy

make 'em laff

chrisner,

Ah, "Harold and Maude"....one of my all time favorites. *sigh* Senior year of highschool....Old Saenger Theatre....New Orleans. The Saenger wasn't orginally a movie theater....it was a grande lady who had seen finer days. I'm pretty sure that the movie theater was created from just the balcony area of the old theatre. It was chopped up in a rather strange way, and it had a ceiling that looked like the sky, with lit stars, framed by greek statues, and seats that were at such a severe angle that everyone was close to the screen. At seventeen, it was magical. I was dating Neil-the-real-deal (lead singer for the local band) and he had the same kind of strange beauty as Bud Cort....not handsome in a traditional way....but somehow irresistible with his clear voice, delicate features.....and gyrating hips of course. He was singing along with Jim Morrison "Don't You Love Her Madly" as we drove to Lake Pontchartrain and parked for the submarine races.


*screen spew*....note to self: read chrisner before or after food and drink. I can't help but thinking of that scene in "Fargo" LOL....that movie would be okay too LOL!


Even if you believed your foggy spouse....why would you let her plans dictate yours?


Okay...rule number one: Don't believe anything you hear from a WS, and only half of what you see.


Frick and Frack....how quaint.


It's water under the bridge....you went to plan B....but there were certainly other choices. Stay in Plan A was one of them. You don't have to live together to be Plan A. If she moved in with the OM....yep...go to B....but with mom, dad and Frack....you could have continued with the A plan for a while. Doesn't matter.


I understand. I think those "dates" could have been some opportunities....but again...let's try to make Plan B work for you. (And I think JL has the key! He's a great guy)


Well....this is both good and bad. Good if the affair is over. Bad if she still doesn't want to come home and now has the indepedence and vulnerability to make even more mistakes.


Seems like there may be some contact....but time will tell. Keep your ear to the ground.



Wow....kewl! I didn't know that....but it's powerful info.


If she works with this guy....why wouldn't it be necessary?


Yeah, I got that sense from your earlier post.


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Poor old dawlins....guess they have their plate full. I wonder why all of their kids have fidelity issues?


poor chere....that's tough for her. I'm glad she knows the truth and that she's got you there for support.


How about writing? You're too talented to ignore your gift. Look into some avenues to expand and share your writing.


Most affairs are not about how great the OP is....but how great the OP makes the WS FEEL about themselves. How did your wife feel around you?


Hopefully....she'll reconsider...but JL is JUST RIGHT...she needs the blueprint to come home!! Did you give her a way to do that? What were the "Conditions for Reconciliation" in your Plan B letter? Did your letter tell her you loved her and didn't want a divorce. What was the last message she got from you? Love? Protection.....or Anger? Punishment? It's important!

How much weight have you lost on the "infidelity diet" so far? Are you sleeping? Get some new intelligence on the affair.....and read JL's post a couple of times.

star*

Hey Chrisner,

Your 'accusing' me of being "the most upbeat person in Betrayedville" was both honoring and startling. I'm thinking about starting a new thread (so I don't TJ yours) to explain why.

At any rate, I wanted to tell you 'thanks' and that I read everything you post. And I would buy any book you wrote, too. I honestly figured you were a professional writer of some sort because you write like one.

I am learning lots from the input you are receiving. I'm sorry I don't have much to add except for prayers for your family, especially your daughter.

I'll tell you one reason I am upbeat.....when my husband said it would be best if he just left and I surprised him by telling him to go (at 2 in the morning when our bags were packed for a vacation flight leaving in 3 hours), I meant it. I told him that since I had 10 days off, I would get the house ready to sell, we'd split the proceeds - and bills - and I'd be just fine.

When he stopped at the door, sobbing, asking for another last chance (his 4th strike), I said "that's it". One More.

Now, 3 months later, he says that when I said I would be fine, he saw me in a whole different light. And he wanted to be 'under the same lamp', so to speak. You mentioned the "Ace ray of sunshine" (again, I'm honored). I think it's because I took a stand....does it count as a Plan B if it lasted for 5 seconds?

So that's the present reason I'm so upbeat. His EA (and our transition towards recovery) has given us a passion and intensity for each other that I never thought I would ever experience given our past.

I'm thinking of calling my new thread:

" 'I'm 19, Never had a Boyfriend, Only One Man Will Ever See Me Naked' and Other Wrong Reasons to get Married"

OR

"After 30+ years of Existing, my Husband and I are now Passionately and Inseparably IN LOVE Because HE had an Affair"

Would you read it?

Ace

P.S. I don't need to watch a morbid movie to bring me down to earth....triggers and flashbacks serve that purpose often. I'm cautious, tho....I want my joy to be inspiring, never condescending....will you help me with that?

star*fish and Just Learning,

Thank you for you thoughts and information. Star*, you’re description of the Saenger Theatre and your times there was wonderful. I wish I could have seen it. It sounds like the perfect theatre to have seen Ridley Scott’s “The Duelists”.

Regarding the Plan B letter, it is modeled after the standard MB design. I looked at many at this site but I must say Greycloud’s letter he never got to send was by far the most effective I have seen for brevity, completeness, and the powerful message of love. I used his work as my template. Ending the affair is replaced with ending the separation and returning to build a new and better marriage. It covers all the required elements:

- Love and the desire to remain married.
- Acknowledgment of my failure in my responsibilities to the M and the desire to fix those things about me.
- Recognize the pain from the A but offering forgiveness and healing for both.
- Ending communication to preserve love and protect myself during separation.
- Opening the door at any time she wishes to discuss returning and building.
- Love and the desire to remain married.

It was short and to the point and might be the best letter I have ever written. Thank you greycloud. The ball seems totally in her court now.

DD19 dodged her mom all weekend but I am encouraging her to talk with her a soon as she is ready.

The initial blow of her leaving was pretty terrible but I am rebounding back much quicker than I thought I would. For the first time since Thanksgiving, I am able to truly focus on other things and have even had a little fun. Saw a great college hockey game Friday night and Sunday’s basketball games with my girls were a blast. I am getting a better picture of what life will be like without her after 25 years and although it is very sad, I will be fine.

Ace, I will read anything you write.

‘O Wayward One has descended from the mountain and made her decree, “Thou Shall Be Divorced.” I told her that was fine but I am not filing and this is her choice and she can do the work. I drank my coffee and went back into Plan B.

During the meeting there was clear fog that indicates some level of contact with Skirt Boy is ongoing. What a surprise. Throw in her idiot brother and enabling mother and it makes a real stinking brew.

Plan B has been going really great for me and in truth I am feeling it’s time to flush this nasty toilet anyway. DD19 is out on her own and doing great so I don’t have any children issues like so many others here. I think about the years of vulnerable recovery that would be required if NC is ever even established and I frankly don’t want to spend that time trying to pull her head out of her butt with a crowbar and comealong anyway. I deserve better and they deserve each other.

I have been spending the past couple days packing all her things and stacking them in the garage for a quick exit. From her venomous conversation with BIL that I recorded prior to her leaving, I already am clear on what she wants and have accommodated her completely. She has no idea I am doing this. It’s turning out to be pretty good therapy.

DD19 spent Saturday with me and we had a huge laugh about the thought of me entering the “dating joust” someday. She also told me I should have taken over the entire general housekeeping a long time ago because the old place has never looked better.

When I look at this amazing young woman I know that regardless how the marriage ends, it created something beautiful and beyond special. Regardless of WW’s rewriting of the history of our life together, I know in truth it was a very good marriage for a very long time and was a total success in raising an incredible daughter. Truly a mission accomplished.


We are not retreating—we are advancing in another direction.
--General Douglas Mac Arthur (1880-1964)

Ah yes - the WW enema - the packing of their belongings. I couldn't wait for that crap to be gone so I could assess the sitch at home. It must be a guy thing. Any and all pictures/albums were immediately boxed if she were in any of them.

My new house has a lot less stuff in it. It makes it easier to clean, too. It also isn't filled with stuff I never really wanted anyway...you know, the stuff that she would have to replace after she got tired of it?

If I want, I get to wear my shoes in the house; course, no one else can. But the best part? I can resole those shoes and wear them in the house some more! I don't need to replace them either...

The only thing needing replacing was the WW. Sure do miss the W, though...

Peace.

"The only thing needing replacing was the WW. Sure do miss the W, though..." - frankly

A very sad truth.

The Wayward Goddess pried out from DD19 that some of her things (the stuff she vehemently told dumb [censored] BIL she was taking) were stacking up in the garage. To this she replied, “I did not tell him he could move any of my things! I need to be consulted before these things happen.”

I get teary eyed just thinking of her pain. No wait, it was just gas.

Let’s recap:

- She withdrew emotionally and physically from the marriage.
- She has a workplace EA that evolves to a PA.
- She baulks at getting a new job to ensure NC. “We’re professionals and can handle it.”
- She moves out to live with her mother at “Infidel Hotel”.
- She informs me she has no intent on returning and is filing for D.

Now she wants a say in where I put the deck chairs on the Titanic?

Oh well, as they say, “Don’t wrestle with a pig. You will both get muddy and the pig likes it.”

You will be amazed at how much better your life will be in 12 months. On the other hand her trip to "destructionville" has just begun. She will be sorry someday for what she has done. You may or may not know about it when it happens, but it will happen all the same.

God bless,