My wife and I have been married for 13 years. We have two children; 6 and 8. My wife is a SAHM of 44 while I’m 38 with a job that requires relatively frequent travel.

After our second child was born, my wife stopped initiating sex. If I made any attempt to create an intimate environment, she’d be upset that I was “planning” for intimacy as if it were some conniving act on my part. If I didn’t plan, she would be too tired and indicate that if I would have given her a heads up, she may have been more in the mode. Nevertheless, I was always rejected. Usually after two or three rejections in subsequent weeks, she would give a last rejection and say “tomorrow”. Tomorrow would come and half the time there would be intimacy and half the time an argument would ensue during the day and SF would not occur. This was only one indication of issues.

Many other subtle hints were there as well. If I’d sit on the sofa next to her, she’d get up with 30 seconds and not return. This was so apparent that my brother asked me if we were having issues after visiting. Coming home from work, I would never be greeted with a welcome. Going to the kids special functions, if she arrived after me, she would always speak to friends before even acknowledging I was there, if ever, before the end of the event. In addition, she is in bed as soon as the kids are in bed because she is exhausted, never staying up to even simply watch a movie. But the one thing that for some unknown reason drives me absolutely crazy, is that she won’t let me see her naked. In the infrequent times that she is willing to fulfill my needs in order to stop my nagging, she goes as far as shutting the blinds and windows on a hot night, because she is “chilly” and throwing a shirt over the alarm clock to block the light from the LED. Complete darkness is a must.

I attributed some of this treatment due to my job requirements. My job requires me to be away for two days every week, while working from home two days, but on occasion it may be three or four consecutive 5 day weeks, while coming home on weekends. This has taken a toll on her, since we have no family in the area to help her at home with the kids and I’m sure she felt abandoned. However, when we talked on numerous occasions about changing jobs for less money with no travel, she did not want to put the extra strain on our finances. Early on, I would travel more (4 -5 days a week), but I put constraints on my travel as much as I could without losing my job, in lieu of a promotion, so I could be home more for my family. In fact, she asked I go as far as forgoing friends, hobbies and extra curricular activities in order to be home with family, which I reluctantly gave up as well for the good of the family.

About a year ago, now that the boys were a little older and she was less stressed, I became resentful since the intimacy in our relationship was not improving. I found myself responding in a spiteful manner to her rejections and her lack of desire to simply spend time with me. As an attempt to stop the cycle, I approached her about her lack of interest and why she didn’t want to spend time with me in or out of the bedroom. She blew up (with our kids hearing), yelling the “F” bomb and asking me to “act like a man” and leave her alone and that I need to be content with myself. I suggested marriage counseling, but she was adamant that I needed the counseling and not her.

Since that time, we have had numerous ups and down and a bunch of arguments; a few where her top would boil. She is one to explode and say the worst, while I am one to internalize my feeling (If I can’t directly address them), while showing my feelings on my sleeve. She has made some attempts to meet my needs, but I unfortunately found them half hearted and became frustrated, which probably didn’t help, but I still believe her attempts were not genuine. According to her, I am a nag and won’t let go. All the while, I have suggested counseling and she has refused. She believes a lack of desire by women is the norm and that most women don’t want their husbands to see them naked. She uses her friends as an indicator of the norm and since it is the norm, I should be content with the way our relationship is and with what we have and I should respect her “need” to not want to be intimate. She repeatedly tells me “You can’t change me.” and while I know this to be true, I believe that statement is more an indication that she doesn’t want to change, making my situation feel hopeless. If we don’t try to work on our relationship, this validates that she doesn’t need to change and I remain frustrated and lonely within my marriage. However, if I do try to work on the issue, I’m a “nag” and I risk our marriage and the stability for our children.

I have gone to a couple marriage counseling sessions alone, but the counselor told me after the last session that although we can continue to have sessions, there is not much more he can do, unless my wife is willing to work through the issues as well.

well, I imagine she doesn't want you to see her naked becuse she isn't feeling good about she looks naked.
not to punish you.
I recently spen time w/ a couple who were talking about her lack of libido since the last baby...and she said, " i don't want to look at myself naked the last thing I want to do is let you look at me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

your wife sounds very unhappy too.
why did you see a MC w/o her....why didn't you go to an IC?
she is right...you can't change her.
but, you can change yourself and how you react w/ her.

Hello BYD,

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

I'm sorry your predicament finds you here. Your situation does sound discouraging, frustrating and depressing. I can certainly relate to loving someone who isn't into sex as much as I wished.

But as you and your W mention you cannot change her. That's a good rule to follow. One that is part of the basic principles of this site.

Based on what you've explained I see a few things that create issues for your M.

1). Your W is very uncomfortable with her body.



You'll notice her statement was missing one key element.

This is an area you could explore. Have you tried to give her reassurances that she is still attractive? Is that an area where you struggle with your behavior? Do you deny her your admiration? Does your attraction to her appear to be strictly of a sexual nature? Is there room for improvement in how you could make her feel about herself? (Granted this is something that would be really helpful if she sought some help but you can't force her to change).

2). It sounds like your W is annoyed by your asking for sex and the way you 'wear your feelings on your sleeve". This is another area you could explore with us here. Find some ways to communicate your unhappiness while still maintaining a sense of self-respect and dignity. Using "I feel" statements are a great way to get your point acrossed about your unhappiness without sounding nagging or whiny.

3). In most cases we'd probably suggest to you that you find ways to create intimacy in your R. It sounds like some of your attempts come off as manipulative. This is an area you could explore with us here. Maybe there are different ways you can slowly build a mood without setting her off. Creating an environment of intimacy doesn't have to mean sex is the end goal. So maybe explore some things you can do that create intimacy without the expectation of sex. I'd suggest trying to create verbal intimacy before you start with anything physical.

4). You need some boundaries. I hope you have found or will find some healthy ways to deal with the AOs (Angry Outbursts) and disrespectful way she talks to you.

As I see it you should work on a few of these things. In the end if you eliminate your LoveBusters (LBs) and meet her Emotional Needs (ENs) and you still aren't getting your ENs filled then you have to decide if this is your 'hill to die on'.

Again welcome to MB. Stick around. It's quite possible YOU can make a difference if you just try some things differently.

This is too much. Your story and mine is the same. I for some reason am not affectionate to my husband. every lil stopry u told about watching a movie late and her going to bed at the same time as the children is what happens in my home. My husband is very upset that i have rejected him numerous times for sex and now he feels unloved and unwanted. i just want to be left alone and sleep without being bombarded with not so sensual roaming hands. I really dont know where to go from here. I am actually starting to feel a little bad about my lack of affection that i have for him and that i show. We all need help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

nia,


Thanks for the response. You probably hit the nail on the head about why she won't let me see her naked. She is self conscious to some degree. But she is attractive and I can't comprehend not sharing. What is the risk on her part? She knows I think she is beautiful, but she is insistent that I never will see her naked. So where does this leave us? How can she ever be truly intimate if she will never be comfortable around me. This is one issue, that although seems so superficial, may be spoiling many aspects of our relationship.




I went to a MC, since at one point she agreed that if I picked a counselor she would go. I setup a time that she agreed upon, but once the appointment was set, she backed out.


That is understood and I'm certain she doesn't want to change. My reaction to her has deteriorated over the past year and likewise her reaction to me. I try to do what is right by eliminating the LBs and trying to feed her ENs, but it has become quite difficult. During disagreements, her opinion is always right and mine is always wrong or simply "doesn't make sense". She becomes combative in her tone of voice when issues are discussed and if I try to stand firm in my feelings, it just escalates the argument until her top blows. Inconsequential differences in opinion become arguments, even hypothetical differences in opinion become arguments. If there is any reconciliation after or during an argument, it is always initiated by me. If an apology does come from her, it is only given if the issue is brought up in the future after the risk of vulnerability is gone.

Hi, welcome to MB'ers. I believe you are in a tough spot. Lets assume the worst - you implement the MB'er concepts perfectly (no LB'ers, meet her EN's) and the situation does not change. Will this be your 'hill to die on'?

I learned something recently in this thread: Plan B for unmet EN (SF)[color:"blue"]<- link[/color] I suggest you study carefully the replies from Star*Fish - among the many good and wise people here she's one of the best.

Hi BYD,

you said she knows you think she is beautiful...my guess is she doesn't really know that.
she may act like she knows it, but if SHE doesn't feel she is beautiful she isn't really believing that you do either.

maybe if you could stop focusing on the sex and try to focus on helping her feel comfortable in her own skin.
I get the feeling she judges herself very harshly and then deflects that onto you.

Do you have any idea what her top EN's might be?

mrsdhatch,

I'm replying to your email before others as I feel I can directly relate to what your husband is feeling and may be able to help. While the other posts, I need to think more before responding. I am new to MB, so my suggestions may not necessarily be according to these forums, but they are simply based on the feelings and experiences I am currently going through..

Being on the opposite end of your situation, I can probably give you some insight. The good news, is that you are half way to working through the issue since you acknowledge that you aren't meeting his needs and should be.

I agree with other posts I've read, indicating that SF is a different animal than other ENs. Most other ENs, if you don't enjoy fulfilling them, you can still gain the strength and motivation to address them and train yourself to do them. For SF, not only do you have to gain the strength and motivation to fulfill it, but must do it willingly and with some enthusiasm or it doesn't meet the need and can cause more dissatisfaction than satisfaction. On a small scale, you can probably relate it to a husband who does the laundry to help around the house more, but forgets to put the laundry in the dryer. Even though there was effort, due to his lack of real effort, the laundry smells and must be done again. Over time, this type of effort on his part could be more destructive than constructive.

Here is what I would suggest:

1. Don't discuss that you want to change for him. at first. This could setup expectations in his mind that are higher than you are willing to deliver.

2. You initiate the intimacy. If he has to initiate, it will lose it's effect since he likely has been beaten down with rejection and probably loathes having to ask and likely doesn't try to seduce any more as his ego has been significantly reduced. You need to build this back up. Seduce him in some fashion, which will indicate that you desire him and are not just going through the motions. Don't make it a chore. Keep it simple to start so that you are not overly uncomfortable. Keeping it simple will also make sure you will continue to feel comfortable in the future and are not setting expectations too high.

3. Do what you enjoy most (so that is is as enjoyable as possible for you), but do it willingly and with a little enthusiasm. Doing what he likes is good, as long as it is still relatively enjoyable to you. It's important that you are able to give the perception of willingness and enjoyment while not setting yourself up for not being able to deliver this level of excitement in the future, so be sure not to over do what you are willing to provide for him.

4. Don't turn down reasonable requests. Obviously, don't do anything you are truly uncomfortable with and/or over the top, but try not to put up barriers showing that you are uncomfortable if the request is reasonable.

5. After he is stunned by your actions, be sure to set expectations that you can meet and that he will not interpret too liberally. If you allow his expectations to be too high, you will set yourself up to disappoint later, which may set you back. Do this tactfully. When he questions why you acted the way you did, indicate that you love him and understand that you've been neglecting him and want to show how much you love him. Tell him you enjoyed the intimacy and wish to continue, but let him know that you just didn't and still don't have the energy or time to do it every night.. Although you might not desire it, you do desire to please him, so leave the desire or want type of terms out. You don't want to give the impression that you don't desire him. This will simply hurt his ego and make it seem as if you did it as a chore, which will destroy the ENs you just added. Now that his expectation are set that you can't do this all the time, set his expectations for when, so he is not left hanging. Frustrated by not knowing when or where it may happen again, he may try to initiate when you are not ready. Set a date night and plan the next occasion. Set a reasonable time frame not to frustrate him, but not to overly burden yourself. If you overly burden yourself, you will start to resent the date nights...Maybe set it up 1 or two weeks out, but this will probably depend on your current frequency. Setting the next date prevents setting his expectations too high and likely will eliminate the loud silence that is likely between your when you are home alone together. The next date will give your husband a carrot that he can look forward to. This will free his mind from the rejection he is used to and likely prevent him from making unwanted advances. You may get a few extra kisses, hugs or phone calls, which should be expected, since he will feel more comfortable with you, but you shouldn't have the feeling of being pressured for sex.

6. At the next date night, don't disappoint. Don't cancel or push it off, if at all possible. If he initiates intimacy or is flirtatious, play along. If he is reluctant to initiate, you take the lead again. Do at least what you did last time, but be sure to mix things up a little and be sure not to do anything that will completely turn you off. If it becomes routine, it can become a chore again. Continue the pattern of setting expectations for future nights, so that you are in control which will avoid unwanted advances. Keep it in regular intervals, and if you have to postpone for some reason, do not cancel. It would be best to surprise him early as this will catch him off-guard and show that you are not postponing to avoid intimacy. However, if you truly have to postpone, be apologetic, set another date in a very short time frame and say you are truly looking forward to it. Be sure not to make postponing a habit.

7. Occasionally, you can surprise him on a non date night. This will stroke his ego as well, but don't make this a habit. If it becomes the norm you may start setting his expectations too high or give him the impression that you may be ready for intimacy on any given night.

Just remember. You are the one with the lower drive. This puts you in control as he is pleased only if you choose to please him. Since you are in control, take control and set the expectations to a level where you believe you can continue to meet those expectations, while fulfilling his need. By not setting limits and expectations or setting them too high, you will only frustrate him.

Hopefully over time, you can build some intimacy where you are truly enjoying it, but for now, these actions should at least make him feel as if you love him. He likely will start putting ENs back in your bank. I personally know, that if my wife would do the steps above, I would do anything in the world for her; filling her bank with ENs as she wished. However, since she is unwilling, I frequently feel rejected, unappreciated, not respected, resentful and lonely. Many times, I feel as if fulfilling her ENs is not just a chore, but I feel like I'm a disgruntled worker pleasing the boss because I have to, while knowing there will be nothing to show for my hard work in return.


I hope this helps. This is only my opinion, with nothing to base it on except my own personal situation.

Very likely. She has spider veins on her legs and we have spent thousands over the past few years to have them removed. But now they look good and you would and you would hardly know they are there. I know this is a sensitive issue, but never objected to the procedures except to initially postpone them to a new calendar year when we could save for it and make the cost more tax advantageous. She was initially upset that I didn't want to throw down unexpected thousands of dollars immediately and took it personally, but I think she now realizes that I was not being insensitive, but it is only reasonable to plan, budget and save for large expenses.

I do try to give her affirmation, but probably not enough. However, I don't think I ever say anything to feed her insecurity.



This is true. I do need to work in this area and have tried with limited success. Oh I wish i could be strong all the time. My biggest outlet is either running or taking the kids out.





I hope this is possible, but it's definitely not easy. W doesn't like to talk or spend one on one time. She doesn't like anything that makes her vulnerable. We've tried some date nights (without the sex), but due to uncontrollable circumstances and maybe a little sabotage, we've only had one successful one (the first one). I'm hoping they can continue however. In addition, she only negative responses to affection. Any type of touch(e.g. hugs, slight rub of the arm, arm around her, hand holding, cuddling, shoulder rub ) is met with an awkward "what are you doing?" glance, or quick movement away from me. She says she is no longer affectionate and does not need affection..she claims it doesn't do anything for her.



What type of boundaries are you referring to? And yes, her angry outbursts are not fun and slightly demoralizing...which I guess is their intent. They don't happen often and I try to avoid them, if possible, but sometimes I'm willing to hold my ground, based on what I feel is principle, and just face it. She also has worked on this a little and is sometimes more reasonable when we have discussions, but not always.

I don't plan to die on this hill, unless W is the one who pulls the trigger. If I die on this hill, it would set the table for an unstable home for my boys. Nothing is worth that, so to answer a couple other posts, there will not be a 'Plan B'. In addition, if D would ultimately occur, W is not one to lose a fight, so I'm sure it will be an unbearable D. So I'll jump over 'Plan B' to 'Plan C' and be willing to remain unsatisfied with my relationship, in hope it is a better environment for my kids.

Thanks for the welcome. It's great to have found such an encouraging support forum. I have found a lot of great information from so many people.

Maybe that is true, but then her perception of herself trumps my opinion of her. I'm not sure how to help her feel more comfortable in her own skin. I figure, one of the biggest compliments would be that I'm attracted to her, but apparently that is not enough. Compliments I make are typically dismissed.



I think I can rule out the following: Affection, SF, Conversation and Recreational Companionship. I believe I can also rule out Physical Attractiveness. If I had to guess, I would assume Family Commitment then Admiration and then Domestic Support, but these are areas that we have not always seen eye to eye. Items like Financial Support may be a high need, but have never been an issue, likely indicating that I'm meeting them if she has a high need.

I guess sometimes we don't know what our emotional needs always are until they are not fulfilled and we feel deprived. If a needs is always fulfilled, we can take it for granted and not realize the need exists.

I believe I currently meet Family Commitment fairly well, although in the past we didn't always meet eye to eye as her expectations and what I delivered were not always on par. I thought her expectations were at times beyond reasonable and sometimes even impossible and she thought I didn't give enough.

Domestic Support used to be a need, but I had trouble meeting it as her need and what I delivered would always differ. Instead of asking me to help out with where she needed the most help, I would do what I thought was needed most. I would do the dishes, but since I didn't mop I wasn't doing enough. Then I'd do the dishes and mop, but since I didn't notice the kids toys weren't put away I didn't do enough. It was tough to figure out what her expectations were and she would not tell me as it was apparently supposed to be obvious. If I didn't know what was needed, I was not in tune to her needs. However, this doesn't seem to be as much as a big deal anymore and she will ask for what she needs, if my efforts fall short.

Admiration, is probably where I'm lacking most. Throughout our relationship (even before the lack of SF) I have not met her expectations in most areas regardless of my sacrifices or attempts. I've always had to guess what her expectations were and no matter what attempts I made, I usually would come up short. This made it difficult for me to show admiration, although I know I should. It's tough to give back what you don't receive. But of course, it is a two way street. I really need to work in this area and let the resentment go. Maybe this will be the key to opening her heart again. I do admire a lot of what she does; her cooking, her "mom" skills, her artistic creativity, it's just not easy to regularly express it.