Post deleted by Jayban

DD15 almost sounded as though she was questioning you....could perhaps WW have been planting seeds that you are dating others too?

You know...projecting.

Keep your nose absolutely clean OR you will never be able to claim any moral highground where your daughter is concerned...let alone your wire/ex-wife (should it come to that). WW will very much be expecting you to date and will pounce on ANY seeming impropriety you exhibit.

Don't necessarily do it for her...but for you and the vows you made. Until any divorce is final...YOU are married and unavailable to any significant relationship with any female.

I'm just forewarning you. YOU are vulnerable. Share with family and get support but be wary of unrelated females. Step one - like four of the path to infidelity includes a lot of sharing of marital problems and allowing a woman, not your wife, to meet emotional needs. You are particularly vulnerable because you soooooooo desire to have some of your needs met. Be careful....I know you will.

Try to have a good trip and come back fresh. It's encouraging that your wife was even speaking to you today. That was progress.

Mr. Wondering

edited

Post deleted by Jayban

Wait... your daughter has missed 59 days of school. If I am reading that correctly, getting your daughter out of that enviroment and also invloving the authorities is necessary.

Also, do not stand there while she talks about the other scum bag. Just immediately remove yourself from the discussion and let your WW know that is a topic that will NEVER be open for discussion. Do it firmly but with respect.

And avoid the drinking and driving. It is not safe or responsible. If your WW has any access to MB.. remove the reference to your having done so.

Good luck and I am sorry you are in such a bad place.

MEDC

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Post deleted by Jayban

Hey Jay:
I am heading out...but I'll come back and catch up on your thread. You asked for advice earlier, and I must say I feel a little out of my element in telling ANYONE "what works," as I am still myself in Plan A. NOTHING'S worked yet if you know what I mean. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now if I were RECOVERED...then I would feel like I could actually GIVE advice.

But I'm happy to share IDEAS if that works!

LS

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Post deleted by rwinger

Post deleted by rwinger

I wonder if you should limit the conversation with the IL's... I wonder if you should just enphasis that you want your marriage to recover and the you want you and your wife to work through it like adults..

Because right now WW has their ear, they have been poisoned against you and they are going to stick with blood. Its plain to see how people can dismiss peoples action - Astro-nut comes to mind....

So I wouldn't plan too big of a deal with your ILs maybe more like a Plan A your IL's...

This will also help you with your WW, if she whines and say s your controlling and just being vindictive, and you deal with them like a loving SIL, then they might go back and rethink what they are doing for their daughter.

If you come in and say look I have PI stuff, I have MB stuff I have all this stuff to work on my M, they might come away with that your too much in control of your thougths and actions and consider that to be influence that your peddling over your WW.

Just a thought, hope to hear others thoughts on this

"Hello MIL –FIL, I am glad you flew in and it’s nice to see you both again. I would like to talk about my wife and me. We all know that she is seeing another man. This is not right and I don’t want to sit by and watch my 17 years or love and devotion just fall apart. Of course WW doesn’t want anything to do with me right now. She is getting all her needs met by a home wrecker right now. I know that I have areas in my M that I have to improve and work on. I am working on them now and I would love to have my wife back to help me work on them also.

I don’t want a D. I want a better M for us. Remember how excited your DD was when she called to tell you that we were engaged? I want that back. We have been together 17 + years and have a DD together. Nothing would be better than for her mother and father to be in love and happy again. I want to be at your house next Christmas celebrating as a family. I want to celebrate many more anniversaries, just as you two have. I know it can be that way again, but I need a few things in order for it to prove it’s self out.

A. NC between WW and OM
B. Don’t help WW out right now by aiding in a D. There will be time for that later if need be. **(this leaves them an out)**
C. Time, time to prove to WW that I have heard and understand her complaints of me. Time to be a better H and F than I have been. I don’t have that time when OM keeps intruding in our M. There is no room for 3 people in a M.

I love your DD and your GD very much and I would, still today, lay down my life for them. I’m asking you both as my sudo(sp?) parents to help me, as a family, with my endeavors and not hinder them. I know you did not agree with me telling her boss/bosses, but what I did has a proven track record. My IC (pick something other than MB) has told me that this was the best way to get them to stop seeing each other at work. All I did was revile what they were doing, the truth. By you being mad at me about it only proves that you do not condone what they are doing."

**Jay,

If they keep bringing up D and say that WW has made up her mind to D you already go with this. NOTE HERE Steve H gave me this tid bit


Jay: “MIL FIL, if ww has her mind set on D and will not change it then I ask that she prove it to me. NC with OM for 6 months and if she still feels the same way at the end of 6 months then I consider talking about separation. Certainly if she is over me and into OM then 6 months would not be too hard.”


Jay, we all know that 6 months of NC will do the trick with your WW. This along with your Plan A improvements.


"Certainly you can respect my trying to save my M and family."

Above script is good -

"Why are you continuing to focus on what I was doing outside OM's apartment with the PI instead of being concerned about what was going on INSIDE the apartment"

"OM told me the affair started "months ago""

Be nice...listen and say little. It's very difficult to teach the foggy. Stick to the "Do's and Don'ts" list. Lovingly detach from trying to effect your desired outcome.

Don't put yourself down.

Don't try to convince everyone you've changed

Your presence and efforts to even consider reconciliation in light of your wife's betrayal will eventually speak for itself.

Good questions:

When is it ever right to have an affair?

Why do you think I am here today tring to repair my marriage??? (I have no desire to control her or manipulate her...in fact, eventually I will have no desire to continue in a loveless marriage...however, I am married today, we will forever be connected to each other through our wonderful yet struggling daughter, and I think we CAN recover our love for one another. It may seems impossible but it happens ALL the time).

Is it lost on you guys that I'm still here, in light of all the convincing and manipulating you've all actually been trying to do to me (you guys are trying to manipulate me to give up hope and that it's irreparable when it's clearly not) ... I'm still living up to the vows I took ____, 1994.

Something like that...in your own words.

Dang timing out...but I saw others are giving you excellant language too.

Mr. Wondering

A long time ago you referenced that FIL was at one time a WH.

Do I remember that right or was that someone else's story???

If so, it seems HE of all people should understand the fog. If it fits, you COULD bring it up in a very non-accusatory manner. In fact, ask MIL how she felt when FIL cheated on her.

I'm sure they will think it's a completely different situation. Which you just ask..."How's it different" and allow them to TRY to talk themselves around it.

It's sensitive to bring up.


Like said above...if they want to direct you down the lets figure out this divorce. Don't go there.

Mr. Wondering

Post deleted by Jayban

I think you may start with the basic initial premise of:

"What is the ideal resolution of this situation???"

Then listen. Fog babble, manipulation, rationalizations and justifications galore ensue.

Then when you get a chance to speak.

"I think we all should agree that the best resolution is most definitely that WW and I reconcile and restore our loving marriage and provide a loving home for DD15".

Then listen again. More fog babble, manipulations, rationalization and justifications.

The when it's your turn to speak (because they've worn themselve out) you say "I disagree...the best outcome is most definitely that we fix our marriage. It can be done, unfortunately I can't do it alone".

More of the same fog babble, manip's and R & J's ensue.

I think eventually they MAY concede the point with a "YES, but..........". Then you've got them.

"So we are in agreement that reconciliation is the BEST option, if THAT is the case, why are we discussing all the other options...shouldn't the BEST option be discussed and pursued FIRST?????"

Then listen.

Then come back to it. Why all this defeatest talk. Divorce should be the back up plan ONLY if a plan for reconciliation fails.

The maybe you can get to a plan and have a simple short list of it's requirements.

No contact
Counseling
Marriage Seminar
STD testing
Etc.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - I don't mind you talking to the In-laws. It sounds like just maybe your FIL can see out of WW and MIL's fog. It's worth a shot. Don't bank on it...but just maybe. Further, at least while you are all talking WW is NOT with OM and you are getting a chance to look good and strong/demonstrate your strength, love and resolve.

Post deleted by Jayban