Honesty has always been my biggest EN. From the time I was little I have always told the truth and expected that from everyone else. I have never understood why people think they have to lie, even the little white lie. Without truth, a relationship seems fake. When people have lied to me in the past, my relationship with them is usually not ever the same. I might still be friends with them, but I never confide in them again or trust them totally again.

You might say that I'm the most naive person in the world though, because my husband confessed to a 2-year affair last month and I had absolutely no idea that he was anything but the model husband and father. I have had gut feelings in the past that I never let sit in my mind. I immediately thought, "that's the devil in my head" or "he's my husband, I can't doubt him". If I've learned anything from this experience it is to always follow my gut. Someone responded to one of my other posts (can't remember who, but I appreciated it greatly!) and said that it isn't lack of trust that hurts a marriage, it is too much trust. I understand that now...

Now I feel that I should check up on him so that I won't get hurt this way again. I look at his cell phone, check his pockets, etc. I do this not to catch him in a lie, but to catch him telling me the truth! I want to trust him again so badly that if I catch him in enough "truths", I feel that the process will go faster.

My problem is that I feel horrible doing this behind his back. Shouldn't I give him the same openness and honesty that I expect from him? Isn't this just switching the betrayal of trust from him to me?? I have told him to feel free to check my email, read letters, check phone records, listen in on phone calls, etc. I have nothing to hide and never have. He doesn't understand why either of us should do this though if we just trust each other.

I'm pretty sure the advice I'll get is that I need to check up on him until he earns his trust back. We're in counceling and have been since two days after I found out. She told us that it will take about 2 years for me to trust him again. This didn't sit well with him... Me either really...

Thanks for listening. Any advice is appreciated.

He does need to be checked up on. And you are not being deceitful by doing so... he should know that his entire life is open for scrutiny at this point an that he has lost his right to most privacy.... and yes, it will take a long time before you trust in him again.
So, my advice...is to continue checking diligently. You have that obligation to yourself and your marriage.

I know he needs to be checked up on right now. I'm just torn because it goes against how I've always lived. Should I tell him that I'm checking up on him? Maybe that would alleviate my anxiety about doing it. Then, of course, he'd have a heads up on how to better lie to me...

Any scripture would be helpful. Although, I doubt there are a lot of "deceiving your spouse is a good thing" verses. Ugh, I'm just really confused right now.

I still check on my H ....

And SH told me that I shouldn't, that it should be HIS job to "prove the negative" to me ...

He said that getting stuck in trying to prove the negative to yourself puts too much burden on you, whenit should be on your H. Plus, all you will really know is that you haven't found anything.

So, SH gave my H homework to sit down with me, at least once a week, and go over cell phone bills, bank records, receipts, etc., PLUS his "plan for protection" -- what he's doing and how he's doing with that, to keep himself and us safe.

Short version of SH's logic behind this approach, as he explained it to me, is that everything is out in the open, plus it helps you re-build your sense of trust, because not only does he have to tell you the truth, but he has to PROVE it, too. And beyond just helping you to understand what he's doing so you can feel safer, it helps to reinforce the boundaries for him, too.


-AmI.

IS,

The trust issue is a slippery slope.

It is not just if X amount of time goes by you should trust him. It could be 2 years or it could be never.

Realistically the onus is on him. He needs to be Open and Honest about EVERYTHING.

In addition to that he needs to prove himself in times when trust is necessary. I don't know how to explain that point so I will use an analogy. Me being the bad guy and this never happened. My FWW and I go to the beach and I spend the time checking out women. She hates it and I promise not to do it again. Now 7 months go by and I don't do that at the beach and then we go to the beach and I do it that time. I say It has been 7 months thats a lot of time. She says we haven't been to the beach in 7 months. You see why time may not matter. For her it was the very next time.

That was my time to prove myself again. I had a chance and I blew it so now she still doesn't trust me or my word.

Trust was her issue. When would I trust her. I said when she proves she diserves it.

There was a time where she lied to me for no reason. I couldn't understand why she would lie. She told me I was making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I wasn't I basically thought to myself it is really easy for her to lie.

So for me when someone has absolutely done their part to win back and earn trust is when they should get it.

It isn't a matter of time going by. It is a matter of what they do with that time.

AmI-

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds like you had a really hard year...

I totally understand how it would develop more trust by the WS laying it all out once a week (or daily even). My husband does a lot better at this now. He calls me more often and lets me know when he sees another woman who he's had an inappropriate relationship with (we have a lot of other issues besides just this one PA). I just really don't want to get hurt like this again and feel incredibly stupid for being so trusting in the past.

At the same time, checking up on him actually makes me feel worse because I'm going behind his back. It makes me feel good when I don't find anything out of the ordinary, but I still feel bad about not following my own rules about total honesty.

[/quote] It isn't a matter of time going by. It is a matter of what they do with that time. [/quote]

Thank you. I really needed to hear that. I know it seems an obvious statement, but this whole process has me turned upside down and advice that I would normally give to someone else doesn't even occur to me.

Another question... Is there a better way to let your WS know how much you need H and O than just asking (or begging)? I've told him our entire marriage how important honesty is to me, so he's known it all along. Why would he NOW decide to meet that need?

It just sucks that we have to change because someone else made a mistake. I have to change my beiliefes like an A is unforgivable, I have to change my view on turst: lack of trust that hurts a marriage, it is too much trust. . (I liked not haveing to question my Spouse.)

It freaking sucks that we have to change, but to just survive an A we do.

Don't fret about looking at emials, phones and such. As far as i am concerned once married you are one person, and there really is no such thing as privacy, bank accts, phone records, friends, places. If you say or do anything it should be something you say or do infront of your spouse.

Maybe offer your email passwords, and phone, then intern make sure you get them from him. It didn't go over very well when I asked my FWW for her email password, but in the long run It helped.

Man, you just said exactly what I've been feeling. It does suck that I have to change my views because of this. I have ALWAYS looked at marriage as sacred and never thought for a minute that I could forgive an affair. I'm a pretty forgiving person in general, but I also have high self-esteem and know that I deserve better than this.

What's crazy is that the moment I found out that my husband is not who I thought he was and my life has not been what I thought it was, I instantly knew that I needed to make some changes in myself. I don't mind changing that at all, but I am a little ticked that "marriage" is and will never be as sacred as I thought. Little things, once a huge deal to me, like having never taken off my ring (and he hasn't either) aren't nearly as important to me anymore.

I think I will let him know that I'll be checking up on things. He says that he wants this to work as much as I do, so maybe he'll be okay with it.

you are one month post d-day

why did your husband confess....

is the OW married...
did you expose the affair to her family

what ended the affair
how do they know eachother?

Two years is a long time..

what's his "reason" for an affair....
AND
what are his other behaviors issues in the marriage...

From the time I was little I have always told the truth and expected that from everyone else. I have never understood why people think they have to lie, even the little white lie

wow those are really high standards...
I tell white lies all the time..

ie..telling telemarketers I am "too busy to talk"

hmmmmm

ARK

IS ~ while the affair is still on, it is not deceitful to protect yourself by checking up on him without his knowledge. If you are not sure the affair is over, then telling him you are spying on him would be like handing a knife to him so he can stick it in your back. While he is cheating, your first priority is to protect yourself and your children.

You will know you are in recovery when he not only does he AGREE that you can check on him without his knowledge - but he OFFERS that to you, along with all of his passwords to all of his accounts.

IS,

I agree with ark on the white lie thing.

I lied to my kids about Santa, the Easter bunny etc.

Once I decided to be honest with my FWW and slept on the couch for a week. She asked me if the pants she was wearing made her butt look big. I said no her butt made her butt look big. OOPS.. So now I use some white lies to tap dance around that.

The point is sometimes a lie is harmless. But for now he should really make a point not to make the decesion if it is harmless or not. He should try to be transparent.

I am sorry I don't have a lot of time or I would get into more detail.

Read about radical honesty here and transparency. It will validate your feelings.

These are answers to Ark's questions. Can't figure out how to quote everything individually...

I finally followed my gut and confronted him about how distant he had seemed lately. My worst fears were that he would tell me he had been talking to someone, but THIS is what I got.

She was going through a divorce when the affair began. My H knew her from work and everyone they both work with knew about the affair and so did her family. His mom knew about it to, so there really wasn't anyone to expose it to...

As soon as he confessed to me, he told me that he was relieved that it was over. I confronted her about an hour after I found out (before he could warn her that I knew) and she said the same thing about being relieved it was over. I'm so glad that I can be a source of their relief <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. He worked 2 jobs and this was his second job (in a different county), so he quit immediately and hasn't seen her or anyone who he worked with since. He's pretty much lost most of his friends, because they are leading the same lifestyle and he's no longer "in the club".

His reason was because I wasn't meeting his sexual needs. I was 8 months pregnant when he started the affair, so you can imagine how well I could physically do that. He said that he was unhappy in the marriage and that it just turned from harmless flirting with her to something more, then he just didn't know how to end it. He has also said that he loved me the entire time and our marriage was a good one, he just knew that he could get sex in both places and he did.

Yep, I know that I have high standards. That's something I've had to come to terms with in the past month. My expectations were pretty much unachievable for him. I'm learning how to let the unimportant things stay just that and instead focus on only what is productive for our marriage. I was probably the LB queen, but now I bite my tongue all day long.

YES...YES...YES...I was just talking to Mr. W about this thread and how you will KNOW when your husband is totally above board with you...I look for reasons now to prove myself to Mr. W even though he says he is sure of me...It is important to ME that he knows how devoted I am to him...I want to demonstrate this in every possible way...I go out of my way to do this...I do things that he would probably never even think of asking me to do...You will know...Until then, he has proven himself untrustworthy and you MUST protect yourself...INSPECT what you EXPECT...


LOL Ark...Our 7 year old DD does this for us...She routinely tells telemarketers to place us on their "DO NOT CALL" list!!! It is a scream!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Frog you crack me up, but I gotta tell ya dude, if you said the above to me, YOU would have SUMMER TEETH...As in, "some are down your throat, and some are on the floor"...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Pretty funny yourself. LOL

IS,
I think that right now you have a right to be jaded and untrusting. You are still very, very early in this. If you wan't to save your M this is a marathon.

One of the things that many have realized here is it was their complete trust that led to the possiblity of an A.

In some cases we shouldn't have necessarily trusted completely.

I can now look back and say, I did trust my FWW completely but I shouldn't have.

I am sorry you are here but if you are looking for trust now you could be sorely disappointed. It isn't a realistic goal.

Gaining more trust each day is though. Work on that with the advice you recieve here.

Mrs Wondering-

Can I ask when and why you started being honest and going out of your way to be trustworthy to your husband? Was it something that you just decided to do because it was the right thing or was it something he said?

Anyone else is welcome to respond to that question. The more advice the better...

Reading back over these posts, I think I need to clarify my views on "white lies" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Of course, my kids believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny! I was referring to things like telling your boss you're sick or out of town when you're really just working at your other job (something my husband did without thinking twice). I guess this might not be considered a "white lie" though. Sorry for the confusion, I'm not THAT uptight!

Frog, I think white lies are always in order when your wife asks you how she looks. That is, if the truth would be a worse alternative...

IS,

Good!!! LOL.

Is there a ramification or a consequence to your H being honest with his boss about the work issue?

For me again I have called in sick and LIED because my sick time cannot be rolled over to the next year but my vacation can. So I would call in sick if I had the sick time that I was going to lose.

I would really worry if he lied just to lie. I dont' like lies either but some I can understand.

For my FWW she knows what I think about the way she looks. I tell her all the time she is the most beutiful woman in the world to me.

IS right now you really have a reason to be highly untrusting but you have to make sure to keep it in a realistic light.

He really messed up here and shouldn't be trusted but don't look at everything undere a microscope.

Both of the places my H worked knew about the other, so it wouldn't have made a difference if he lied or told the truth. That's what is scary. He just lied to lie, like you said Frog.

It's taken about 20 versions of his "affair" story for me to get to what really has happened and for how long. I think I know all the facts now and he really has been totally honest finally, even when he knows it will hurt me. That's probably why he never even told me he was unhappy... Because he knew the truth would hurt me and it was his way of protecting me. I think I've finally convinced him that a horrible truth is way better than any lie, even if it is to protect me.

I know that he doesn't deserve my trust yet. I'd be a fool to trust him now already. My dilemma was the whole spying and checking up on him, and how dishonest that is. I guess it's just not in my nature, but I have to do things that aren't in my nature if I want my marriage to survive this.

IS,

Only 20 versions you are lucky. It took me almost 3 years.

BTW he is lying when he says he didn't want to hurt you and thats why he didn't tell you.

If that was true he wouldn't have had an A.

The sad truth is they lie to themselves about why they lied to you. They believe that to be true.

If he is honest and true from here on out sooner or later he will earn your trust back.

He destroyed it, he needs to build it back up.