Ok. Left for a few minutes and watched SpongeBob with the kids

Ok. The anger and the wanting to throw up are battling right now to see who wins first! Anger is in the lead right now

I switched to using Blackberry so I can sit in the same room with the kids for a while but still get this STUFF out of my head

WS, his BF, BF wife, BF daughter, daughter's friend, OW, OW's son and MY KIDS were all out together. WSHad said it was going to be the above BUT not OW. He said it was a friend of his BF. Guess trying to cover that another woman there

I know you all have told me over and over and over that they are all liars - but being sLapped in the face like this is STILL such a shock!

----QUESTION------

Do I let WS know that I know?

Do I tell him I ABSLUTELY will NOT stand for him exposing kids to OW?

I don't want them all going on DATES together!

For God's sake,, we are still married! He SWORE he would not do anything like this while we were still married!


I know LIARS- in fact I know it was a lie when he first said it because he was already seeing her!

So - do I let him know or what?

Just read back through the advice above again-

You are likely right that he sees me as no challenge.

Right now I would LOVE to challenge him to be able to walk after I kick him in the B#LLS! Now THAT is the kind of challenge he deserves!


He was HERE with ME Fri night. Had SF with ME and the next has OUR kids out on a DATE with OW??? WTF???

When's the next time you see him face to face?

You need to be able to tell him CALMLY yet ASSERTIVELY that the kids will no longer be able to go out alone with him..that he is welcome to visit with them at your house or YOU ALL can ALL go out TOGETHER...any way that their EMOTIONAL SAFETY can be insured....that he is endangering their EMOTIONAL HEALTH...I wouldn't make this negotiable. I would state it as a FACT.

And about the SF then out with her..STANDARD CAKE-EATING BEHAVIOR... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

yesterday I did see and talk to WS, but I wasn't ready emotionally to discuss any of this stuff with him. He knew something was wrong, asked if I was OK, and I said I was.

I sent him a text message last night - - -

"test to see if your new phone has text messaging. I love you! I need you! I want you! Just remember, I am not clueless or stupid"

he replied, "i never claimed u to b"

I replied, "No, but you are treating me that way"

He called this morning and we got into it. Wanting to know what the text was all about.

Told him that I knew he was with Sat night. He says "I was with a whole "group" of people"

"Yes, and WHO was in that group"

No real answer -

Me - "I know you were with OW"

Whole discussion on how I knew. I told him that someone saw him there and then it was confirmed by the kids. He went on and on about how no one saw him,, that was BullS**T. I said, well, how I know really isn't the point. Actually asked me if he should be looking over his shoulder to see who is following him. Asked if he really thought I'd do that. Based on this he acted like he did. Told him I don't have the time or energy for that crap & I certainly would not have waited this long if I were going to do something like that.

Ws "I don't want someone telling you Bulls**t stories. Fact is I sat at the other end of the table from OW and then stayed at the table while everyone was in the game room."

Oh - - I guess since they weren't sitting holding hands and making out, than it should be all A-OK by me??? Lord help me let the babble roll off me!!

the conversation wasn't out of hand and was going ok - I had said "you did this KNOWING how I would feel about it and you didn't care"

His answer was "I can see how you'd feel that way"

Bugs, "You tell me how you were "barely friends" with her and now you are going out together AND you had my kids there, too"

WS "it wasn't like that"

Bugs "Really, then how was it"

WS "I've been talking to her on the phone this week. Told her what I was doing this weekend. She called friday, said she had her son and that her cousins were coming into town with there kids and would it be ok if they joined us. I said it would"

Bugs CALMLY,,,, "So let's just be honest here, you WANTED to be with her"

WS "Yes, I do miss her"

I didn't go off or anything,,,,,,,,, I was prepared to let the conversation end, but he wouldn't. Him insisting he didn't "LIE". I replied "Omission is the SAME thing as lying. You've even told DSS that omission is lying!" "Oh, yes, I supposed this isn't anything like the time I went to a bar to see a friend and because my XH was there you were all pissed off" "That was different because YOU lied about it" Calmly,,,"OK, that's how it was. Alright"

Then, he had to go into how see,,,, this is how "its ALWAYS been. I ask you if something is wrong, you say no and then you go off."

I told him that I didn't say anything yesterday because I was too upset and that I had planned to go home early today and talk to him about it. I also apologized and said, you are right. I didn't say anything yesterday when I could have told you and then let you know that I just wasn't ready to talk about it. My concern with that is if I bring up the subject and then tell you I am not ready to talk about it, you may get more mad than if I say nothing. If that is how you want me to handle things, then that's what I will do in the future. But, you KNEW why I was upset and YOU didn't say anything either, so we're both guilty on this one"

He went into how he KNOWS that I just want to make him out to be a piece of sh*t. I asked "Tell me just how I have made you out to be a piece of sh*t? What have I done" NO ANSWER

Then he turns to "when this is done & over, you won't be happy until my name is mud. You want everyone to think that I went out and had an affair and that's what caused all of this. That's what YOU want out of this, you want to make ME look like a piece of sh*t"

"No, WS. What I want out of this is for us to learn how to communicate, I want for you to come home and I want to be married to you forever. I want us together as a family, THAT is what I want out of this"

Silence,,,,,,,,,,,then "Where is DD6 while we are having this conversation"
"She's watching cartoons and just walked in here"
"Then she's heard everything"
"no, she was watching cartoons "
"and you were in the kitchen"
"no, i was in the dining room and the bathroom"

Silence,,,,,,,,,,,,,I told him I had to get going to get her to school and me to work

He said he'd call me later.

He's certainly doing all he can to JUISTIFY his actions! Whatever it takes to get what he wants, he's willing to do it. He lied because he KNEW what he is doing is WRONG. Why can't he just see and admit that? Because he is addicted! He's convinced himself that she has NOTHING to do with his not wanting to work on our marriage. Did their relationship start this whole thing,,, no,,,,,,,,, but it MOST certainly has effected it negatively. If it weren't for that relationship, we would have a much better chance of recovery.

I don't know if I am more mad about what he did or the fact that I would still take him back right this minute if he said we could try to make it work!!!


So, everyone, I've prepared myself. PLEASE tell me how you think I did in the conversation. No sunshine enemas. Constructive criticism welcome!

WS just called. He just left his office having given his resignation. Told me about how hard it was. Many people there were upset with him leaving. Most of them were very surprised. He said it took almost 2 hours to say good bye to everyone.

I listened.

Asked how he felt.

Acknowledged that it had to be emotionally draining for him.

Supported that he made the right decision.

Talked about how it was both good and bad feeling mixed together.

All good PLAN A things, right?????????????????

He's on his way to meet with the "new/old" boss that he will start working for again next week.

He asked how my day was looking. I said Good!
I am afraid he's going to want to get together this afternoon to talk. WHAT am I afraid of?

I'm afraid he's going to say that he has to move forward towards Plan D. One of his statements this morning was "When this is all over,,,,,," Obviously, he is thinking not IF we divorce, but WHEN we divorce.

I don't know if or how I am going to be able to handle that!!

Just before he called, I wrote him the following note that I had planned to give him tonight - --_


I’ll try to make this short and sweet.

I agree with you when you said I should have been up front with you about being upset on Sunday. Although I wasn’t emotionally ready to talk to you about it, I should have acknowledged that I was upset and let you know that we would need to talk later. It would be helpful if you would also be up front when you already have an idea of what I am upset about.

I do not, and have never tried to make you out to be a bad guy or a piece of sh*t. As I say every time you bring this up, please tell me what exactly I have done that proves that statement. I’d really like to know.

Your actions hurt me terribly this weekend. I believe you knew in advance that they would and now you know for sure they did. I am not telling you because I expect you to be sorry or any thing else. I am telling you simply because that is how I feel. What you think or do or feel about it is purely up to you. I expect nothing.

It’s the same as when I told you again, straight and simple, what I want out of this. I want you. I want a new and better marriage with you. I want to be with you for the rest of my life. I want us to be a family again, now and forever.

What you choose is what you choose, and is out of my control. Do I hope and pray every day that you will choose the same as I have chosen? Absolutely!

I do love you!



Should I proceed with giving that note? ?????????????



He said he'd call me later, so I guess I'll TRY to get some work done! No matter what happens, I am going to continue to need my job!!

I guess you know my opinion about sending LONG NOTES.

Why write this down since you are going to see him tonignt?



Basically say JUST THIS to his face..OVER and OVER...

Plus, he needs to know that you WILL NOT ALLOW YOUR CHILDREN TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE OW...

Your end of the conversation with him was GOOD..but he LIED to you. You know that, right?

Mimi,

Thanks for the input.

Yes,,,, No No No long notes!! Glad you noticed I TRIED to keep it short!

You are right, no point in giving it to him when I can just SAY it. Thanks for re-enforcing the OVER and OVER part!

Yes - - as you so deftly point out and I SO didn't want to acknowledge, I know he LIED. I even had to go back and read what he said in order to really "get it".

My first reaction to your statement was "Lied? About what?"

DID I WANT to believe him? You bet!!

DO I want to believe him? You bet!!

Do I need you to point out to me that he lied?? You bet!!

HOW they got together was a lie.
HOW the evening went was a lie.

HOWEVER - - He did admit to having talked to her all last week AND he did admit to wanting to be with her.

Not that I wanted to hear any of that, but can I not take that honesty as a little bit of a good thing?

What I mean by that is that I had conducted myself in such a way that he found himself being honest,,, when maybe he didn't want or plan to be honest?

OR

Am I fooling myself there - when the fact is by telling me that truth, he is attempting to PUSH me into being the "bad guy". To PUSH me into the old habits of anger and poor communication.

OR

I am now certified as CRAZY and over thinking EVERY little thing just way too much!

I'll gladly accept my Certificate of Crazy if I am deserving of one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

EXACTLY..trying to PROVOKE you...



REMEMBER..He's the CRAZY ONE...

IMO, it's better for you to THINK than to be RULED BY YOUR FEELINGS....

Bugs, this is no offense to Sis and not at all a reflection on her...

BUT..I'm wanting you to evidence how much you love yourself and for you to feel good about your specialness..

SO..I'm recommending that you change the name of your thread...

Who knows? You might get more help..

I used to be inventive and scream out on here with "HELP ME NOW" and such and folks would come running into my thread...

Bugs --
Just to get you in the right frame of mind before you deal with him.

He wants you to SHARE THE BLAME for the divorce.
He doesn't want to be the "bad guy" or be thought of as a piece of $^#. So it would be great if you could take a share of that...would you mind?

Do you SEE how crazy that is??????? When you hear the story of someone who leaves their wife and young child to chase a ******, don't you think they are a piece of $Y(#*????
I do.

So Plan A is not about relieving his guilt over what he truly should feel guilty about.

Keep the issue on track.

The issue is NOT how you reacted to him lying to you.

The ISSUE is him taking your precious child around his ****** without your permission.

Right?

Mimi,

That was such a diplomatic way of saying things!

Truth is Sis needs me to change it - - she doesn't need any pressure and that title may be unwittingly making her feel down. That's the last thing I want!

I had already been thinking about it as well.

I'll put on my thinking cap and come up with something

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> No need to be all that creative..HELP ME WITH PLAN A will work, IMO.

Lexx,

I am glad I can count on you to keep me from ignoring that which is most important. (And often what I avoid)

Are you hearing us that this needs to be addressed tonight?

What's your plan to protect your children?

I was just re-reading your thread trying to put my finger on something. And I think what I am getting at is that you are choosing the path of least resistance (so to speak)

It seems more tolerable to be mad at him for lying, than to be mad at him for HAVING AN AFFAIR.

Its like you're dealing with the mosquito bite instead of the massive hemmorrage.

Keep your eye on the real important issue. He is going to lie to you. Because it is impossible for him to maintain the affair without the lies.

So forget about the lies, and attack the affair.
Are you ready to do this?

Here is what I would do....(so take it or leave it...)

You have a casual custody arrangement. But legally he has abandoned you and your daughter.
So, since you can no longer trust him to show good judgement with your daughters well-being, he no longer gets to take her.

"Visitation" (and this is the word I would use with him...)
will need to be monitored and supervised until you feel comfortable that he is not endangering DD by exposing her to unethical behavior.

Lexxy,

You have hit the nail on the head.

I AM choosing the path of least resistance.

Not forcing the issue of his unacceptable behavior.

Accepting his stance that his wanting to divorce me came WAY before this relationship (which he still denies btw) and that OW has NOTHING to do with US.

By accepting that stance from him, I am allowing him to place the "blame" on ME.

I am afraid,,,,,, I KNOW I am. Let me tell you, THAT is not an easy thing for me to admit.

I DON"T want to fight - I DON'T want to start down the road of issues over the kids! DA*N HIM for this!

DA*M HIM DA*M HIM!!

I don't know that I have it in me to go with your suggestion above - actually insisting on the monitored visits

I do KNOW that this HAS to be addressed.

Bottom line tonight is just to make it very clear - - - - -It is UNACCEPTABLE under ANY circumstances for my children to be around OW. Period.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH LEXX...

Monitored visits, or no visits at all would be a consequence of HIS actions. Don't own that. Its not yours.

You seem to take responsibility for everything. (Its hard to know that from a few posts, but that is the impression I have.) This is not your burden to bear -- you have done nothing wrong, and you can't save him from the mistakes he is making. You have to let him fail. You have to let him hit the bottom -- no catching! You have to let him be "the bad guy." (CUZ HE IS ONE!)

You need to really have yourself in the right place for this battle. Are you on an anti-depressant? Are you doing any individual counseling?

You have to fight this head on -- so you can't just avoid the tough ugly stuff.