instead of defending yourself...

simply shrug your shoulders and say "most ethical moral people think its wrong to have an affair and leave your family...."

(Hello?? Like its not WRONG that he DID IT, just WRONG that maybe you are talking about it????)

Bugs, its like he has a real talent for shifting blame and taking you off the subject. You need to get better at not jumping to defend yourself from his ridiculous accusations.

Its a classic tactic. And you seem very vulnerable to it.

Lexx,

Yes, I do give in to the defend myself position, but am getting better with not responding to all of that. Am working on it. Thanks!!

Yes, he thinks that if it's not talked about then it's OK. If he doesn't have to FACE the details/reality, it'a all good. They are then content to live in FANTASY land together.


Talked to him earlier - He still has to tell me all about what's going on with work. How his meeting went, the challenges he's facing, etc.

He told me some line about going back to the office and then going home. I know he went to see OW first. Whatever.

He had a "talk" with the coworker who originally saw OW. They "worked it all out". Whatever that means.

Then he says, "apparently you found it necessary to mention to X about it"

Bugs -Why?

WS - X asked how it was going and I told him that we'd had our problems, that there was a blow up yesterday and I got mad. X said yes, he'd heard that.

Now STOP here and THINK.

WS brings it up to X that we had a blow up yesterday. But it was WRONG of ME to have said anything to X??? yea,,, OK.

Lexx - - I did NOT defend here. I just let it all roll. If I had pointed out the obvious flaw in his thinking that I noted above, I KNOW it would have gotten me rolling into some major LB.

WS was really upset because X supported my thought of "why is WS mad"

Can't upset the Fanatasy land ride!

Back to work,,,,,,,,,,

Its OK for him to be upset. This situation is SUPPOSED to be upsetting. That would be a natural emotion.

Not only do I think you need to stop defending yourself, I think you need to get stronger at pointing the MIRROR back in his face.

IT IS NOT A LOVEBUST TO SPEAK THE TRUTH.

You should point out the obvious flaws in his thinking, and just let it go at that. Take it no further -- just state the truth.

Go ahead and say it: "So you think it was WRONG of me to speak to X, but not WRONG of you to have an affair?"
End of statement.

I LIKE it!

Your example makes it much more clear to me, thanks!

I am trying to learn the line between the above and arguing/lovebusting. I need to remember that WS will look at it ALL as some type of aruging,,,, just because I do not agree with his way of thinking.

Let him be MAD or UPSET!! OK!!

I will practice on the way home so I will have it in my Plan A Tool Belt during the talk this weekend!

I envision myself wearing a Pink Cape which is the Cloak of LOVE for my husband & family. On my waist is a Utility Belt,,,, Armed with all of the knowledge I have learned here, from the Harleys Books, and from the Grace of God!

Armed and ready to do battle!

SuperBugs!

Now I'm picturing you as a superhero in pink, maybe Playboy Bunny with a cape......LOL

Love the Playboy Bunny look!!

WS just called and tried getting me again with the "Did you talk to X yesterday?"

Seems OW heard about it and called him right away. So, what does he do?? Call to chew ME out about it! A**!

I didn't bite this time!

Bugs - Why do you want to know if I talked to X yesterday?
Well, I don't know who talked to who. Perhaps OW has been telling the tale, too.

The bottom line is you are having a relationship with her, you are going out together in public, people see you, they know we are MARRIED and they do not approve. They are going to gossip and talk about it.

I don't know what it is you expect from me on this. It's not my issue.

He eventually calmed down ,,,,,,,,,but made it sound like he'd figured out another way that the talk was spread around this time.

Funny part is,,,,, I KNOW that it WAS the OW who told this time around.

Sounds like he has quite the manipulator on his hands and has no clue. I KNEW!

Glad I am ARMED for BATTLE.

Bugs,

My Wh also didn't want anyone to know. He was just telling people we were separating and divorcing. We grew apart (I hate that phrase)

If my WH didn't want anyone to know he shouldn't be messing around with the SIL of the biggest mouth in our town <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

They really just don't get it.

Still

Did you actually SAY this to him???

I hope you did -- SuperBugs!

No, they don't come even close to "getting it"!

Yes, I said something at least very close that, if not word for word. It felt good.

WS called on the way home to tell me of a traffic back up.

He said again that he was sorry for the earlier outburst at me.

Bugs - The LAST thing I needed today was this. OW calls you upset, you get upset and call to chew MY a**??!!

Ws - I am really sorry I was wrong. I had thought I had been protecting you.

Bugs - How's that

WS - By keeping things from you. I don't want to hurt you. If I tell you, I hurt you, but now I see keeping things from you is hurting you too.

Bugs - WS,,, the only way you can stop hurting me is if you STOP seeing her completely. You obviously are refusing to do that, so you will keep right on hurting me.

WS - quiet

Ws - I guess a lot of people are uncomfortable about this

Bugs - What do you mean

WS - I saw Y person today who gave me a big hug and looked very uncomfortable.

Bugs - - There are a lot of people who know both of us, who care about both of us - who are now stuck knowing all of this and feel bad. They don't know what to say? What is ANYBODY supposed to say?

WS - I know. Are you ok?

Bugs - yes, I'm ok. No,,,,,,,, that was a lie. I am NOT ok. This hurts. Hurts SO much! There are times I feel like I want to curl up and die. But, I WILL live.
This wouldn't hurt so much if I did not love you, but I do. I do love you.
The man I fell in love with though, is not the man who is doing all of this. You are not being that man right now, but I know that he is there inside of you.

WS was just very quiet. I could hear him crying

He changed the subject. Said he'd pick up kids,, should he take to my place or his?

Bugs - I don't care

WS - do you want me to feed the kids

Bugs - I don't care,,, that would be fine

WS - DO you want me to pick something up for all of you?

Bugs - I don't care

WS - What do you want? What sounds good?

Bugs - Arsenic?

WS - frustrated sigh

Bugs - I really don't care. I am not hungry

When I got home he was putting in a pizza. He hung around as if he wanted to talk but I did not give an opening. I just went about my business with mail, kids, etc.

I told him Thank you very much for taking care of dinner, I really appreciate it

He finally went to leave,,,, got the huge ONE arm hug thing again. Those looks and pats of pity

Bugs - Good night I love you

He called later "I am out and about but don't have my phone charger, wanted to say goodnight to DD"

I put her on the phone and after he talked to her he hung up

God - he really does think i am stupid! The only reason for that call was so that he could justify not answering his phone if I called later in the evening. He was going to be with OW. DUH!

I had nightmares all night long and am in a VERY down place today. I cried all of the way home last night and only really held it together until the kids went to bed.

He's going to want to have the "talk" today and I just do not have the strength right now to face that.

Think I"ll try to get some house work done and hope that later I can put on my SuperHero MB cloak and belt and be ready to face it all again.'

((((Bugs))),

Giving you some strength... you can do it. Remeber this is for you and your DD. I believe in you.

Keep us updated.

Still

{{{Still}}} THANKS! And right back to you, too!

I am actually getting a lot of strength by reading LilSis's thread today on her Plan B. She has done such an AMAZING Plan A! Now she is going into the home stretch.

When I originally came here, her stich and all of the advice was what got me going and has kept me going. What an AMAZING woman she is!

Being slapped in the face this week with the REALITY of my WS affair has been so hard. But then, I sit back and look at the reality that you, Sis and so many others have been dealing with that I come to understand that I CAN do this.

Reading, understanding, feeling the hurt and despair of so many of us here it breaks my heart and makes me cry for us all. BUT,,,,,,,then it also gives me STRENGTH and HOPE.

Does that make sense?

Bugs,

It makes perfect sense. Even though I don't physically know any of you. You are all in my prayers. Luckily God know who LilSIS, Bugs, Silent, Eve., Rind and observing are. I also pray for everyone else here but sometimes all the names escape me.... it that alzheimers thing starting.

I have got strength form every one here also... it hurts when others hurt, you're happy when others are happy (also hoping that it will happen to us soon)

I know that slap... even though knowing since it's my weekend with my kids when I went to get my am coffee and her car wasn't in her driveway no tire marks in the snow or anything. It still hurts. I find the weekends I have the kids much harder. It means they have all kinds of free time to be together. She has no problem bringing her kids around my WH. My kids are older so I'm here all alone DS slept over a friends house and DD has practice all day for the HS performance next weekend. Too much time to think.

We ALL have strength we just need to reach deeper for it at times.

Still

SuperBugs,

You know you have a choice in this? Right? You are not obligated or required to submit to this "talking".

If you don't want to -- don't do it. Permission Granted. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Good job on the Mirror!!! You didn't let him twist a thing!! EXCELLENT!!

Now do something nice for him. Still Plan A. Spend family time (meet some EN's)

Let go of negative emotions, so you can Plan A in the face of his stupidity.

Yeah, he's not so slick is he? Forgot his charger??? Geeez. Almost comical how easy it is to see through him.
Maybe thats one of your superpowers!
Able to see through FOG!

So funny how minds think a like sometimes! I was thinking to myself during my mental pep talk that I DON"T have to talk if I am not ready.

I STILL needed to hear that from someone else!! THANKS!

Still thinking alike,,, I have been working on printing some pictures that he asked me to print out for him. He is doing a tribute collage for a friend of his,,, his daughter passed away and it is a tribute to her. She would have been 16 a few weeks ago.

Even though he has hurt me so badly, I am sitting here doing something NICE for him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am going to need a lot of encouragement on the continuation of Plan A. Those gut, lash back reactions are right on the tip of my tongue and racing thru my mind. The desire to hurt him the way he has hurt me. Those old habits and natural instincts are there.

I think the more I acknowledge those feelings/instincts/old habits, the better I will be able to control them.

Calm. Still. The bright lighthouse in the fog.
All my mental pictures to keep me on task.

I didn't really realize it, but I put on a [color:"pink"]PINK [/color] shirt this morning! Now I am using it to symbolize my Super Power Capabilities! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Still - - - know my prayers are with you, too! Do something nice for yourself today! One small thing that you really enjoy.

I, too, have a very hard time when the kids are away. Yet, dread even more the times that WS and OW are free to be together without limit.

My WS spent the entire week with OW. Not at night that I know of, but probably last night. They were both off work as they are both starting new jobs. YUCK!!

Try hard not to go there,,,, I know it's hard!!

Going to work on these pics for WS. Am going to try to think of some more Plan A things. Maybe review the emotional needs questionaire I did for WS to see what I can work on.

Good morning!


Sitting here working on printing pics for WS that he asked me to print.

WS called 2x yesterday. Call last night DD answered the phone - he talked to kids and then hung up. I called back. Took him 5 rings to answer, as obsiously didn't want to talk to me!

Just asked his plan for the "talk" he wanted to have. Said he thought we'd talk when he comes today to pick up DSS. I just said OK, that's what I needed to know. Have fun! He was on his way "out with BF",,,, yea right!

I tried to TM him later, but I saw this am it did not got thru. I figure that was meant to be for whatever reason.

I just want to get this "talk" over. I know it is going to be very painful for me, so I figure it's best to get it over. Kind of like taking off a bandaid,,, just rip it off quickly and be done with it.

I have been thinking how I'd REALLY like to Plan B right now,,,,, but I do not think I have done Plan A long enough yet. It's just that trying to Plan A is so DARN hard!

I'd love just to give him what he wants so that He can start that ride down to the bottom where he just might realize what a HUGE mistake he is making!

Gonna read some other threads and look for some inspiration!

BLECH!!! Another one straight out of that mysterious WS "handbook" that they ALL have. Word for word...could have been WH and LS talking.

It makes me want to throw up.

My thoughts and prayers are with this for the "talk." I'm sure it will not be pretty...I don't say that to discourage you...just so you know I'm sending strength your way. I imagine you are feeling apprehensive and that's an awful place to be. It makes ME feel better to root for someone else!!

You've done a wonderful Plan A, but it will come to an end. You sound like you are in a MUCH better place than I was...I didn't want to end Plan A...kind of kept thinking that if I just said the right thing, looked at him the right way...TAA-DAA! The light would go on. I fought and fought for that.

You are much more realistic. SOOO...

Why don't you start prepping for Plan B? That way, when you encounter your "last straw," you will be ready! SuperBugs...whipping out another superpower...Plan B! (Plan B-ugs???)

Plan B checklist:
*Intermediary
*PBL
*Kid arrangements pretty well sorted out so there's not a lot of back and forth about that (I guess I mean having a pattern established?)
*Finances secure

Maybe this will give you something to do to alleviate some of the negative energy that builds up. Resentment is a killer in Plan A because you are more likely to snap...I was, anyway.

That and posting/venting here, of course.

We all support you!

(((Bugs!)))

I agree with Lexx..

HIS TALK is only a SCHEME of his to get you to go along with his WS SCRIPT...

You have every right to have your OWN TALK about what YOU want to TALK about...

Or AVOID "THE TALK" PERIOD....

Bugs: "Talk? What talk? Did I hear you mention some kind of talk?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

YOU ARE GIVING HIM TOO MUCH POWER!! You do not have to TALK to him about anything. This is his SCHEME and you don't have to PLAY into this.

Oh, I sooo remember my WH's TALKS..all SCRIPTED and PLANNED to DECEIVE ME and to TRICK me into doing what I did not want to do....YUCK!!!!

If anything, if I were you, I would JUST LISTEN and say "thanks for sharing" or WHATEVER...."I'll get back to you on my response, WH"....

WHY????

WS just left. He came in sat down and says "we have to end this"

Bugs- What do we have to end?

WS - this, we aren't getting anywhere I can not feel the way you want me to feel It's gone We need to move on

Bugs = I don't agree.

I can't reacall everything. I did mention that he'd said that he had stopped seeing OW for about 6 wks because he didn't feel he was giving us a chance,,,,, WHEN/HOW did he give us a chance when we spent no time together and worked on nothing.

WS- I was done when I left

Bugs- As long as you were seeing or talking to her you never gave us a chance If you stopped doing it now I KNOW we could make the marriage one that would make us BOTH happy.

Ws- it's not what I want I can't

lots of other stuff,, he tried forcing me to make decisions,,,, what are my plans? will i buy or build? will I move back by my family?

How much money do I need? he wants to be sure me and DD are "taken care of" "provided for" BULLSH*T He wants to make himself FEEL better by playing to good guy!

What do we do about property we own? What's right and fair?

I told him I do NOT want this and I will not be doing any proactive things to help make it happen. If he wants to do it, that is up to him. I love him and I want us to be togehter

He admited that while OW as not the reason we split up, that she is "probably" the reason we are not getting back together. DUH!!

I told him that the man I fell in love with, the man I swore my vows with before God and our Children is not the man who is doing this. I love that man and KNOW that he is inside him right now. I believe in him. I know that the good man he is can be here to be my husband and a father to our kids

They need us together!! For us to be a family is the best thing for all of us

WS - Even if we are not happy?

Bugs - we CAN be happy together if we try

WS- I don't want to try

He wanted to know if we can be friends. If I can do that so that the kids events, holidays, etc can be spent on friendly terms, being there together when we have each moved on.

Bugs- I do not think I can be your friend, no. I need you to be my husband. I can;t see that we'll talk everyday about our lives, share daily events, etc. My guts are spilled out here on the floor - - I don't know that I can continue to do that to myself every day. I still believe that we can fix this marriage,,,,, and you are asking me about holidays?? I can't think past that to tomorrow, or Easter or anything else.


He also wanted to know what we are going to tell the kids. I told him I do not have that answer. I don't have these answers for him. I have told him my answer is for us to stay together.

So, he said that he understands that he's going to have to put this all together. He'll have to put together a plan, contact a lawyer, etc. He thinks we should use the same lawyer to make it simple and easy for everyone.

YEP - - All about the Simple and Easy!

Oh yes, his whole family AT FIRST supported him and "understood" why he left. But now, for 'whatever' reason, that has all changed and he is the S.O.B for not making it work. He made some mention of what I perhaps had said to any of them.

I told him that I tell them the same thing I tell everyone. I love you and I want to be married to you.


I suppose that if he can get divorced real quick and easy THEN everyone will be OK with him and the OW realtionship??!!


So,,,,,,,, after much silence as I was not cooperating the way he wanted, he decided to go.

I told him, looking him in they eyes. I can only say this - I love you. I believe in you. I KNOW we can have a great marriage. I can not force you to do anything. However, I am not changing my mind about this. I belive in us.
If forced into this divorce, I will do what I have to.
Someday you are going to see what I see. That you are walking away from the best thing in your entire life. I hope that when you see that I will be here to welcome you home.

I am still shaking. Can't stay here long, DD is home with me. Just had to get some of this out. I haven't bawled yet,,, am feeling numb and shaking all over. Tears will flow later.