And the point of this was? You thought this would REGISTER with a WS? How do you think this affected the ADMIRATION NEED?

PLAN A...meeting ENs...and NEGOTIATING the END OF THE AFFAIR...

Hand slap... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi -

Hand slap administered and understood, thanks!

This was part the following conversation - I have re-read it myself and see mistakes I've made.

I'd appreciate your critique as well,,,,,,,,,

Mimi is right.
Scolding him, making him feel bad, educating him, are NOT Plan A. You've said your stuff -- now let it sink in.
And get back to meeting his EN's for SF, ADMIRATION, conversation, etc....

Okey dokey - -

While you were posting, I already got back on that band wagon.

I tried to call but got vm, so I sent this email to him -



How's that? More in line with Plan A?

I was thinking about the above conversation (again).

So, HOW do I make it clear that the A is NOT ok while at the SAME time, doing a good Plan A. This has me so confused! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Bugs you ask:



Let's take a closer look at your conversation as you describe it:



I know it's easier for ME to see in HINDSIGHT. But here was your opportunity to switch to "I" talk, saying "I'VE CHANGED, TOO"..instead there was a switch you made to YOU talk which resulted in DISRPESPECTFUL JUDGING OF HIM.



It would have been great to STOP with: "I AGREE THAT YOU ARE A GOOD MAN INSIDE.."The rest is SCOLDING.."You are a BAD BOY"...OUCH...Yes, he really IS..but TELLING HIM won't HELP..he has to come to realize and accept this on his own..



Your response COULD have been.."I agree..yes you do"...

Do you have a copy of HNHN? Dr. Harley talks about meeting the ADMIRATION NEED to a WS. Focus the conversation on what the WS DOES..not what the WS DOES NOT do..



Scolding..as stated above. Response could have been: I REMEMBER when you were WONDERFUL:; Do you really think you are GREAT, NOW?; "You really think you are a GREAT DAD?" (ORCHID WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE NEED YOU? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

Overall, it's important for you to begin to have discussions in which YOU EXPRESS YOUR FEELINGS AND OPINIONS that it is BEST FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY for him to come HOME. "We need you, we miss you, I want to have my WHOLE FAMILY under one roof,etc." It's not necessary to make it clear that he is having an A. That's a given. Bottom line is , you want him to end it and to come home. SPEAK YOUR TRUTH AND DO NOT GET CAUGHT UP INTO HAVING HIM TO AGREE WITH YOU.



This part was PERFECT..captures what I've been TRYING TO SAY...

THANK you so much!

I knew you'd help to clarify this for me and get me re-focused.

Yes, I do have HNHN,,, and used a great deal of this in an earlier conversation with WS. I just let myself get off track in this last conversation.

I made the mistake of LISTENING to WS babble over the prior weekend,,,,, I let it stay in my head to where it started to take root. Mainly his steadfast commitment to how this is not an A because he was "done with us, done with our M it was over and he had left. None of it has to do with OW".

I SHOULD have let all of that roll right off, as in the very SAME conversation, he said that OW wasn't the reason we split, but IS the reason we are not getting back together.

I know,,,, Alien thinking. No way my TELLING him how crazy that is will change his opinion.

Although I will give myself a little bit of credit for growth and change,,,,,,,,,the OLD BUGS would have stood there, getting upset, using every word I could possibly think of to ARGUE why I am RIGHT. I would not have let it go at all. This time, at least I left it to agree to disagree before it got carried too far.

Definate slip backwards on my Plan A progress, but nothing I can't recover from.

So,,,,back to thinking of some positive things I can do for him. I sent earlier email about his being a Hero to DD and to me.

He says he is working "late" tonight and having FIL pick up DSS. Maybe I will be able to leave work early enough to send some dinner home with them.

I have some greeting cards I picked up the other day (I am a Hallmark junkie). Think I'll slip one in with whatever I send.

Thanks again!!! I really needed some straight on advice!

Plan A vs. Convincing WH what he is doing is wrong.

Don't get into prolonged conversations about it.
You still need to hold up the mirror, but you need to do it in short bursts -- not long conversations.

Make a statement -- then let it go.

You still need to tell him:
he's hurting you
its wrong
your marriage can be better than before

BUT -- there's no point in debating it because you will never "get through" to him. God knows you're RIGHT, but that won't keep you married!

When he says something just off the wall -- you don't have to agree with it. You can look at him funny, or just pause and let the ridiculousness sink in, or make one statement that you don't agree. Don't debate.

Ohhh,,,, Lexxxy!

The "born debater" in me hears what you are saying,,,,, and is promising to try to stay in her place for now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Last evening WS worked late and had FIL pick up DSS. FIL and I talked and I gave him the facts on WS and OW. FIL says that WS doesn't talk to him,,,, and he can't get thru to him. He agrees it is wrong but does not see WS giving up the OW for now. FIL does believe it will fall apart, but is worried that it will be too late for us to save our M. He's a great guy, but not one that can step up to give WS tough love on this. And, that's OK. I love him anyway!

I took kids to the dentist this am. WS said he'd meet me after and take kids home so I could get to work. Pi**ed me off, though, when he said where he wanted to meet because I KNOW it's where he and OW have met up before! PUKE!!

I gotta say, I look GOOD today! Made sure I was wearing great clothes. It certainly reflects in my attitude! Am using that today for my source of power.


VERY cold again during the kid switch. I was smiles while trying to peak into the back of his car at the new clothes in a hanging bag. Bet they aren't HIS.

I got the half hug and HORRIBLE pats on the back. Gave him those pats right back. It seems to give him pause when I do that. Maybe receiving them feels just a tiny bit yucky for him, too. I always make up for it the next time,,,, with a big, full, 2 arms all the way around, leaning in hug.

Just every once in a while, I can't help myself with those pats,,,,, they just feel SO BAD,,, SO COLD,,, like it's all due to PITY. I want SO MUCH to tell him not to hug me at all if that is how it's going to be, but I stop myself every time. I don't want to lose the little physical contact that we have. I think NO contact would be worse in terms of Plan A than my having to tolerate the cra*py hugs.

Does anyone else feel that way?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


He pulls away. We were both going the same direction for a while. I wanted to just run over him,,,,but not with my precious children in the car. So, instead, I picked up my cell phone, acted like I was talking, and vented all of the angry feelings and thoughts I had about him.

I made sure to be smiling and laughing when they passed me by! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Yes,,,, Bugs IS enjoying life without you Mr. Big A-Hole, Cheating, No Good,,,,,,,. Ok, you get the picture.

Had a meeting upon my return to the office. I am givin a speech in a couple of weeks for a Women's Professional Network group and needed to review the agenda with the event planner. I've known her for a very long time and told her what was going on. She knows WS as well. Said she had heard the 'rumor' a while back but did not give it any merit at the time.

She's very supportive. How'd she put it, "I am SO disappointed in him!" That is a strong negative statement for this person. I told her I don't care if EVERYONE knows what he is doing, even though HE wants it to be a secret. I have a feeling she won't hesitate to tell the truth as she makes her travels around the area.


SO, am dedicated to trying to get caught up on a lot of work that seems to get ahead of me so quickly!

Am feeling that something really GOOD is going to happen today! Just a hunch! Maybe just because the weather is SO beautiful outside.

I just read Mimi's post on Sis's thread,,,, about being in GODDESS mode.

THAT is how I feel today!

Is it strange that I feel empowered by saying out loud to other people the words "WS has a girlfriend"!

Is that weird????

I hope not, because for some reason, it is making me feel BETTER than I have in a long, long time.

I have a pet peeve about the "girlfriend" description. That's what the OW in my situation used to call herself..my H' "girlfriend" as if it's OK to have a GIRLFRIEND when you are MARRIED. She actually referred to me as being his "WIFE" while she was his "GIRLFRIEND"...

She hated it when I called her a HIS "HO"..

So let's proclaim her a "HO" and NOT his "GIRLFRIEND"... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I like it!

HO it is!

It is getting tiresome saying "girlfriend" with that sarcasm in my voice and making the quotation marks in the air with my fingers!

Besides, HO is much more accurate!

Mimi..sighing...with relief...and wiping her brow...

singing..TO THE LEFT..TO THE LEFT...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I think I have found address for OW parents. Do I send a letter? DO I identify myself in the letter?

Here's my first quick draft -

Dear Mr. and Mrs. OW

I am writing to you regarding your daughter, OW.

You should know that OW is having an affair with a married man, and has been doing so for several months.

WS, her former boss at XYz company, is the man. He is married with 2 children. A son X and a daughter Z.

I am sure you have seen the struggles your daughter has gone through as a single mother. You have witnesses the trials of your grandson without a full time father in his life. Having seen all of this, I am sure you would agree that an intact family is the best thing for the children, and a wife.

The way to have a husband for yourself and father for your child is not by taking someone else's. Breaking up a family is the worst thing anyone could possibly do.

WS's wife and children love him very much. They want and need him to be in THEIR family.

Please, as loving parents, tell your daughter to immediately break off this relationship for good, and to never have contact with him again.

You will be saving another family, as well as protecting your daughter and grandson from the harm she is doing.

Thoughts/recommendations??

Bugs,

I like the letter.

I didn't realise that your WH is her boss. My Wh ho was also one of his employees. They still work together but WH is not her direct supervisor.

Still

{{{Still}}}

Thanks for stopping my my thread. I have been keeping up with you, but not posting, as you can tell by my thread, I"m not in a position to give much advise right now.

Yes, WS was her boss at their previous employer. They both changed jobs about 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately, I think it has made the A even stronger now that they are not trying to hide from their employer.

Also unfortunate is the my WS's office is only 5 minutes from OW's house now. He tends to have to work late so I am sure most times now "working" late entails being with OW in the evenings.

He has gone pretty deep into the A in the last week and is even more withdrawn than ever before. Last few days have felt very very cold.

That's ok,,, I'm operating in GODDESS mode as much as I can. I've gone back to some basic posts for a Plan A refresher for myself. I am back on track with working on and focusing on ME.

I want WS to see me as the happy, confident, attractive woman I am. Not the pathetic, sad, angry, controlling, old Bugs! Let him get a glimpse of what he is going to be missing if he proceeds with the D!!!

It just hurts when I see how he is arranging his life to exlude me as much as possible. Like last night, asking about the coming weekend. I thought he was interested in what kids & I were doing,,,, when in fact he was trying to find out if we are attending an event or not so that he can decide to go or not. If we are there, he won't be.

I'm not sure if we are going, but let him think that we are. Let him miss out on it because he doesn't want to be seen in public with the woman he is betraying! He certainly can't let anyone think he might 'care' about me by being seen with me. No, that would be TOO confusing!

UUGGGH,,, there I go down the wrong path. The GODDESS does not care about that. The Goddess is going to do what SHE enjoys and what is best for the kids. WS can do whatever he chooses,,,, not my problem!!

I just read Sis' vent on WS BF and the feeling of betrayal/abandonment by supposed "friends" I started to vent down that path as well, but changed my mind.

I am in GODDESS mode today!

It must be working, because I have received compliments from 3 different people today about how GREAT I look! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Also exposed to another co-worker/family friend. That felt good.

Just waiting for the exposure to come back thru WS to me. Am anticipating the anger, but am not afraid.

I have my cloak on to block the fog-speak and already plan to say, "whatever" and move on. I will not engage in a conversation about it. There is no point.

Am seeing IC late this afternoon and am looking forward to it.

I forgot that I sent WS an email last night that IC had left a message on the home phone asking if he is going to re-schedule an appt. She tried his cell phone but since the job change, she does not have his new number. I put in the email that I did not know if he wanted me to give it to her or not. He has not even acknowledged the message and I do not expect that he will. That's his choice.

I WISH he would re-schedule, as I believe it is VITAL to our having a chance at recovery. However, this is one of those things I have put in my God box. I can't control if he goes or if he does not.

If you didn't read in previous post, IC canceled more than 1 appt with WS, which made him mad and he has not gone back since. It is a convenient thing for him,,,,,an excuse I think. If he is in IC, he MIGHT have to face some truths/facts about his actions. We certainly can NOT have that now can we? Let's not disrupt fantasyland with any reality!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

HAHAHA...you think he's telling his IC the TRUTH???????
Thats funny.....

He's telling whoever/whatever will make him feel BETTER, not worse....

Bugs,

I am so amazed by how many affairs are with co-workers. It really blows my mind. I work in a hospital and all my co-workers in my department are female.

Where my WH works he is one of a handful of men... women outnumber them significantly.

Right now it seems the only people he feels comfortable around is his co-workers. Last month he had a skating party at the camp he is staying at and he only invited co-workers and ho. I know he knows that none of our friends would even consider spending time with him if he's wih her.

I'm very fortunate I was reading on LilSIS thread about friends abadoning her. My situation it is the other way around. And I can tell WH feels it. Even the single friend of ours who went out on double date last Nov. tells me every tie he sees me...he's sorry and will never do that again. Although he still hangs out with him just not with her.

I think I need to read up on becoming a goddess... tired of being down.

Bugs by the way I think your doing a great job with Plan A. At least you know your WH is still attracted to you. That I think is a good thing.

Did you contact her parents yet?

Still

Lexx,,

Of course he is lying to IC about our sitch. One thing to note is that we have the same IC, so at least she would have both sides of the story so to speak.

Actually I want him to go to IC to address some OLD past issues of abuse that he has never dealt with.

Still - - - - How hard it must be with the co-workers sitch. The truth is that as a WS, they will stick with ANYONE who enables their A! They will avoid those who make them face the reality of their actions at all costs.

Thank goodness you have the friend support around you! Hang onto that and use it every chance you get! I have felt abandoned by several of our "mutual" friends,,,,a couple of which have become HUGE enablers of the A. If we ever recover, this will be a difficult situation to deal with. But, I HOPE I will get the chance to try!

I see that you read Mimi's Goddess thread! I LOVE it and will have to post to it later today.

I have had my moments of Goddess mode off and on. I am getting back into it as it the BEST thing!

Yesterday afternoon, I went to IC. I then went to meet a friend for dinner/drinks. I did not call to ck in with WS.

He called while I was out,,,, I did not answer. He left no message. I figured if it was important, he'd leave a message. As he does not find it necessary to answer his phone for hours while with OW, then why should I? I was out and about being the wonderful GODDESS that I am and having fun!

He called again 10 minutes later. I didn't answer. No message

He called again 10 minutes later, I didn't anwer. This time he left a message.

Ws "I have the kids. DD says they won't be at the sitter's on Friday? You are going to your S that day? What am I supposed to tell sitter"

I did not call back until I was on my way home a couple of hours later. I talked first to DD who answered the phone. Then I talked to DSS. Then WS got on the phone.

Talk about a PI*SY attitude. I got short yes/no answers to anything I said. I kept my voice light and breezy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />:) I asked what was wrong,,,,,, "NOTHING", but I wasn't buying it.

WS did NOT like not having BUGS jump when he called.

WS "So, what am I supposed to tell sitter?"

Bugs, "I will talk to sitter tomorrow. I don't know yet what my plans are for sure"

THAT did not go over well, either!

So, GODDESS MODE rules! I wasn't cold, I wasn't disrespectful, I wasn't doing anything more than living my life and having a good time.

As my friend said at dinner, WS is on a "Need to Know Basis. Right now, he DOESN"T need to know every detail of your life".

While I don't have on a great GODDESS outfit today, I am wearing my pretty thong underwear and it helps me to stay in mode!

Have a great day,,,,,, do something that makes you feel like a GODDESS,,,,,,, because you ARE!