Mimi,

I think I'm taking your place as queen of drive bys....or can I be a princess <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Still

I am up and down on this.



Sometimes. It's just that I've felt that I haven't been taking care of me as well as I should have. I haven't been doing the Plan A activities while maintaining my own confidence and independence. I've focused almost non-stop on what he is thinking and feeling. I want to be the confident HAPPY person I am,,,, while at the same time showing him that I can/will/do meet his needs at the same time. Does that make any kind of sense?



Still need to show changes!



I have planned to Plan A until the end of the school year.



I don't want the pain,,,, I think it's just knowing for myself (with proof) of the B*llsh*t you note in the post to Mimi.




No, found out that they had moved from this address long ago,,, too long for mail to still be fowarded. Haven't found any new address

WS just called. Started conversation by asking if DSS had meds and clothes for the weekend.

I told him he did. I was bright & cherry.

Conversation went on for almost 30 minutes,,, would have gone longer, but WS had to take another call.

It's funny,,,, we haven't had a conversation like this in several days.

I use these as opportunities to meet ENs,,, conversation & admirmation.

I mentioned several times "just look at what you have accomplished" "You are so good at that" "I'll bet that made you feel good! You deserve the recognition", etc etc.

Obviously he craves these conversations, right? Why else would he initiate them?

I KNOW he does not see them as anything he NEEDS nor does he recognize that I am MEETING his needs in these conversations.

I am just glad to confirm for myself that
1. I CAN still try to meet these needs for him
2. I WANT to still do this

Clarifies my uncertainty in the above post.

The BEST part of it is that THIS time, I was having the conversation as the BRIGHT CONFIDENT GODDESS BUGS,,,,,,,,, not as the "gee, I hope I say the right thing, I'm want so much to please him" Bugs.

Does that make sense to anyone?

Make sense? Of course..

PERFECT PLAN A=PLAN BUGS THE GODDESS!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are waving your MAGIC WAND!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />...GODDESS MODE

Hey all!

Just got home and as DD is with WS, have a few minutes to post "Weekend update". (Makes me think of Dennis Miller on Saturday Night Live,,,, too bad it's not funny!)

Friday I took off early, got the kids, and went to my Mom's for dinner (hour and a half drive). WS called, but service was in and out. He left 2 messages, one of them was snippy. Something about "I hope you ck your vm this weekend so I can atleast talk to the kids. Since I switched phones, I don't have YOUR family's phone numbers anymore"

Does he not know how to call information??? I am sure I've seen him do it once or twice.

We called around 8, bot no answer and no VM on his personal cell. Called work cell phone, no answer, so kids left vm.

WS calls Sat a.m. He started to give me a problem about leaving message on his work phone,,,,"I don't keep it with me after hours". I just told him we called the other number and didn't get vm. Period. End of story.

He got back on the phone with me after talking to the kids,, and was Mr. Nice Guy. Talking about work, this and that. Then he tells me he got a call from one of his employees at 2am. I asked what the guy needed at 2 a.m -GET THIS - -

WS - "I've told the guys that I am the manager that keeps his phone on 24/7 in case I am needed and he was calling to check that I was".

I am STUPID??? Did he NOT just chew me for calling the work phone that he does NOT keep with him 24/7?????

He called again last night, talked to kids, brief with me. I asked if he'd gone by the house to feed the dog. he said he had his Dad do it. CODE FOR - I haven't been home, I am spending weekend with Ho.

This am he called to see when we'd be home. Talked to the kids. I told him I didn't know when we'd be home. He asked what we were up to,,,,I told him just playing with the dogs, getting our stuff together. I asked, "what are you up to"

WS - "Just going home"

Bugs- "Oh? From where?"
I KNEW I should not have asked THIS!!!

WS- "Oh, I just took a weekend road trip,,,,,,"

Bugs "OH, did she have a good time?"

Ws- "Why did you have to go there"

Bugs - "Just asking"

WS - "Why do you have to go there"

Bugs - "well, this is just awfully hard for me"

WS "Well, what time should I pick up DSS"

Bugs "I'll drop him off on my way home"

WS -"Well, I'd like to see DD"

Bugs- "You will see her when we bring DSS home"

WS - I'LL SEE HER WHEN YOU DROP HIM OF???!!!"

Bugs - "Yes."

WS was MAD - I did not react. Said see you later.

I KNOW I shouldn't have brought up OW, but Darn it! I KNEW he was with her all weekend, WHY did he have to throw out that comment? He KNEW when he didn't give any details, that is is OBVIOUS he is holding back BECAUSE he was with HER!! Why do they do that and then get MAD when we react??

UGGGHH! The Goddess lost control of herself for a moment,,, but it HURTS!!!

My mom came by shortly after for a bit. Told me to take a quick drive to look at a house for sale in the area, so I did, mostly to get myself together. I was trying hard not to be in tears in front of the kids.

Got myself together, came back, and we got our stuff together and started home. My sis called and they were on their way, so dogs would be fine until they get home.

Called WS on the way to tell him we'd be there soon. Told DD I'd leave her with Daddy for a while since they hadn't see each other in a couople of days.

Went into WS house with kids, dropped off their stuff, asked if he wanted to have her for a couple of hours while I had things to do. He said yes. I started to leave when he said he'd been by the house, fed the cats, got the mail.

I said, "Oh, thanks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />"

He didn't NEED to come by the house. The cats were fine.

I got home and found that yes, he'd been here

AND

HE READ MY JOURNAL AGAIN.

I really would like to know WHY he does that!

I don't know what he expects to get out of it. I guess he can't figure out that I wouldn't leave it laying around if I was going to put anything in there that he shouldn't read???!!

Gotta get some house work done before picking up DD.

I'm back.

Ws called to say goodnight to DD. I picked her up earlier this afternoon. I was pleasant, but not chatty. Got in and got out.

WS stood by,,, knowing I was upset about earlier conversation. He looked very uncomfortable, but said nothing.

He got on the phone with me tonight. He asked if we "needed to talk"

Bugs - "About what"

WS - "Nothing, I just wondered"

Bugs "there's a reason you asked, what is it?"

WS - "you were just very short today and seemed upset."

Bugs= "Yes, I was upset. You tell me enough to make it obvious you have been with OW, but you then stop short of tellling me any details which makes it even more obvious. Just what am I supposed to say in those circumstances. I won't pretend it doesn't bother me and that it doesn't hurt."

Ws "I've made it VERY clear where I stand and the way things are. Why can't we just move along?"

Bugs "Yes, you have made it clear, as have I. I do not want a divorce. I love you and want us to be together."

WS - "I just thought we could work together on this. When you are so short it just makes me think that it's just going to be so bitter. You have told me that if this is going to happen that I have to do it. But, I know that no matter what I come up with you are going to see it differently. You are going to disagree and it's just going to be so hard and so bitter."

Bugs "What? You want me to make it easy for you to divorce me? Sorry, that's not going to happen. As for bitter, I'd like to know what it is I have done that could be considered bitter. If that means that I act like it's ok when you make it so obvious you have spent the weekend with OW when we are still married, the I guess that would apply."

I KNOW that I should not engage in these conversations, but I TRIED VERY hard to keep it to a minimum. I refused to debate. I backed off a great deal, but is was so HARD.

One part of me is ready to pick up my daughter right this minute and leave him to this "wonderful" life he envisions for himself and the other wants so badly to stay and FIGHT for my marriage, for my H, for my family!!! I feel completely torn in two.

I made another mistake. I looked up the definition of BITTER online. I copied the definition and emailed it to him at work. I noted after the various definitions what I thought applied to me and my actions throughout this stich. I KNOW it was preachy and it won't matter, but I just could not help myself.

To me BITTER is vindictive and cruel. I have in no way been like that at all. I get so SICK of him labeling me and my actions when the fact is that NONE of the labels apply! NONE. Zip. Zero. Zilch!

Do you know what is the worst of all about all of this? The fact that I STILL love him and want to fix this! Soemtimes that knowledge gives me strength and power to keep fighting. Times like now it HURTS so bad, is so painful, and it makes me feel Pathetic!

Anyone else felt this way or feel this way now?

I'm so sad.

((((Bugs))),

Of course he going to call you bitter ad you're making it hard for him to just waltz away to be with his ho. He is still in fantasy land.

Yes I feel like you do lots of times. You love them and dislike them at the same time.

Pamper yourself tonight and give yourself a hug.

Still

Still,

We must have been posting to each other at the same time.

YOU give that big{{{{HUG}}}} right back to yourself tonight, too!

Someday, Someone is going to be VERY luck to have us in their lives!!

You Betcha...

Maybe I just need BOB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Still

Bottom line, Bugs...

In my very strong opinion this morning:

THE ONLY WAY TO EFFECTIVELY CONTINUE TO DO PLAN A IS TO TOTALLY ACCEPT YOUR ABSOLUTE LACK OF CONTROL OVER THE WORDS AND ACTIONS OF YOUR WS. YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOURSELF.

ACCEPT..TOTALLY ACCEPT THAT:

He will be spending as much time as possible with the OW...

He will be trying to rationalize his A...

He will be focused on getting you to collude with him on the rigntness of his A ...

He does want you to enable his affair...

He is an ALIEN..captured by them...

He does lie and is deceitful...

He is TEMPORARILY INSANE...

AND SO ON AND SO ON...

There is NOTHING you can do to MAKE HIM CHANGE OR TO CONTROL THIS.

As you do YOUR OWN PLAN A. YOU can continue to REQUEST.. WITH NO EXPECTATION.... for him to..END IT...but KNOW that it will probably require PLAN B for him to do so...

You say:



I don't believe you. If you KNOW THIS and BELIEVE THIS, DON'T DO IT. You are WASTING YOUR TIME AND YOUR ENERGY. You are FRUSTRATING YOURSELF. You might as well talk to a BRICK WALL.



Hard to do, Bugs, I know...but I would have focused on having a CONVERSATION with him. He ENJOYS talking to you. When he said he needed to talk, I would have talked about something unrelated to the affair. Why talk to him about being with the OW or the DETAILS of that? BOTTOM LINE: He's having an affair. You know this. You know he's going to be with the OW and you know he's not going to tell you the details. You are inflicting further and useless pain on yourself by going there. I just know this, Bugs. BEEN THERE DONE THAT...


ACCEPTANCE IS WHAT HELPED ME....ACCEPTANCE THAT I WAS POWERLESS OVER HIM....





What I am hearing is your FRUSTRATION over YOUR LACK OF CONTROL OVER HIM AND THE SITUATION. If you take YOUR daughter (his daughter, too, right?), you are IN CONTROL. You have asserted YOUR POWER. In FIGHTING FOR YOUR MARRIAGE, you feel OUT OF CONTROL. You want to say to him: "Stop having this affair and come on home" and you want that to work.

Think about it. What is BEST for YOU and YOUR DAUGHTER right now? To hand him over to the OW? To give in to what THEY WANT you to do or TO FIGHT FOR WHAT IS RIGHT AND GOOD AND WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN?

IS IT REALLY TIME TO SURRENDER?



Bugs, what is this stuff about "I KNOW..but I CAN'T HELP MYSELF"...I'm not buying this. I think you may be CHOOSING to do this your own way. If you KNOW, you can STOP this...



and we are back to ACCEPTANCE ..as noted above in RATIONALIZING the affair..and he WILL DO THIS...and in order to do PLAN A..you will need to ACCEPT this....



ACCEPTANCE THAT YOU CANNOT FIX THIS... You cannot fix THIS but you can fix YOURSELF

FOCUS ON YOURSELF AND WHAT YOU CAN DO AND WHAT YOU CAN SAY..YOU ONLY CAN GAIN AND MAINTAIN PERSONAL POWER

Mimi,

Yours is the voice that I need to have in my head all of the time!!



Yes, I am very FRUSTRATED!

NO, it is not time to surrender.

Oh,,,,the giving up of control is oh so hard! I feel sometimes that I continue to be attacked, assaulted, and emotionally brutalized. Yet, what is it that I do to protect myself from the continued barrage?

I want to FIGHT BACK,,,,yet I am falling back into using OLD techniques, that I have learned here do not work.

If I can change my thinking that ACCEPTANCE can be a technique, a tool in fighting back, maybe I can get my head and heart around this better.

The feelings just well up sometimes and then boil over.

Acceptance. Serenity prayer?!

Thanks for being that voice in my head! I have printed out your post and am going to read it daily.

WS did call this am. Talked to DD and then just said hello, asked if all was ok with us, have a good day. Very subdued.

I am going to call him soon re: school supplies for DSS and some insurace stuff. NO R talk! Smile in my voice!

Having LET GO of the weekend.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

He is VERY EFFECTIVE at deflecting you.

Now you're obsessing over his "bitter" comment.

He is doing anything he can to manipulate you into cooperating with his divorce. His ploy is to act sad that you're so bitter (him thinking that if he labels you as such, you will go out of your way to PROVE you aren't....and that is EXACTLY what you are doing BTW)



OMG!!! Don't you just SEE all the manipulation in this???
He sees how hard its going to be to divorce you without your cooperation, and he's practically begging you to make it easier for him!

Would you please get a grip on your venom? Your Plan A is working! Your messages are getting through to him! He has recognized what you told him -- that he's going to have to do the heavy work of getting a divorce, and that you're not going to help him. He was thinking maybe it would be better (for him) if you "COOPERATED". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

BUT!!! He hasn't done it. Not a darn thing. He hasn't filed, you haven't been served, he hasn't negotiated finances with you (remember that one? He mentioned it, and then NOTHING).

Right now he's just totally caught up in affair-world.

Your best bet is to Plan A to the best of your ability. Start making him feel GOOD about interacting with you. Drive a wedge into the affair.

AND...DITTO...EVERYTHING THAT LEX SAID...I was thinking all that, TOO...but had already said enough...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

lexxxy,

Ahh,,, so good to hear from the other voice that needs to be in my head every day! Perhaps I need to change that description of you and Mimi to little Angels sitting on my shoulders, whispering in my ear. TOO many VOICES in my head may make me more mental than I already am!



This I actually DO see. I say all of the time how he just wants me to make it easy for him. I just need to do a better job of dealing with or rather NOT dealing with him when he pulls this stuff on me.



I am TRYING, truly I am! 6 months ago, the Bugs I was would have shocked the he77 out of you with the amount of venom she was capable of spewing. I know, though, that I still have to work on this even more.



Yes, for him, it's all about making it easy for HIM. Not gonna do it.



No, surprisingly, he has not done anything yet. Are you saying that it is just because he wants ME to do it? OR is there perhaps something more to it?

I think it's because he does not want to appear to be the "bad guy" and nothing more. As I have continued to get the word out that he is in the A, he is even more sensitive to how he is viewed by others.

Of course, not enough to stop the A and work on the M. Not surprising, but still disappointing.

OPPS,,,,,,,,No Expectations!! Stop expecting anything!

Work on ME,,, Work Plan A.

As Mimi said, work on making the conversations and iinteractions with me GOOD experiences. I like doing this and can be very good at it. I have to get better at the acceptance part of it,,,, in accepting that in these conversations, he takes my being nice & pleasant as signs that he is going to get my cooperation on the D.

Let him think/believe whatever he wants? Right? I know my plan. I know me. That is the focus? Right?

HE DOESN'T HAVE A PLAN. All he wants is his CONTINUED FUN/FIX..and as CRAZY AS HE FEELS THAT IT IS..he wants to continue to have the BOTH OF YOU..for as long as possible..in any way possible..



Nix the FIRST PARAGRAPH. Take on the LATTER PARAGRAPH as part of your MANTRA. HE'S CLUELESS and USELESS... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok, Ladies.

I called WS. He asked if he could call right back.

I didn't let this bother me,,, as it sometimes does. In the past I would take it personally, that he just didn't want to talk to me. Not this time.

He called back a few minutes later. I talked to him about insurance stuff. Switched to school supply need for DSS.
Asked if all is well in his world this morning.

I got the FULL rundown of what's happeniing with work. He was right back sharing all of those challenges. He even volunteered a couple of stories without any probing from me.

I asked questions, supported with admiring/supportive comments on his ability to handle the situations, laughed, smiled, etc.

No sign of the jealous, wounded Bugs in sight!

For now, I feel a little better. Back on track. In control of ME.

Exactly right. Plan A -- BUGS STYLE! Way to get back on track!!!!

Somehow get to a place where you can ignore your pain. So that you are still able to meet his needs without lashing out at him. That is not to say that you never get your shots in -- but we are going for one-liners, not relationship talks! Maybe that will placate the "viper" in you -- if you know you still can take your occasional shots! (just teasing by the way!)

They just need to be "honesty" statements, delivered calmly. Then if he tries to justify/argue/discuss, you break away from that conversation immediately.

I don't neccessarily think the conversation you told us about was bad -- its just that you didn't let it go and continued on with the e-mail, and justifying yourself. Learn to stop.

***

Now on to WHY he hasn't done anything.

Yep -- a big part of it is being the bad guy. He's trying to adjust to that.
There are so many big steps to take, and each one looks like a mountain!
Finding an attorney to call.
Actually making the call.
Actually going to the appointment.
Having to tell yet another person what he's done.
Having to deliberately inflict more pain on you.

He's a bit of a coward really. He would prefer to let you do it. Maybe he will push you past your breaking point. He will just let his guard down about the affair, and you will be angry enough to divorce him. (that would be WAY easier for him!)

Or if he could somehow convince you to AGREE and COOPERATE then you could do it all together! And maybe you would tell DD that its BOTH of your faults -- you just don't get along, but you BOTH STILL LOVE HER! That would really let him off the hook! And he will try to play on your sympathy that it would be best for DD if you two "got along" for her sake!

Bugs:

You started this thread, stating that you wanted to be like LilSis.

So, start listening, and doing. Just like LilSis.

This WH of yours is lost in the fog. Do not enable his A. Talk to him about your daughter, your day, his day at work, his success, his parrents, his favorite team in March Madness and how much he is going to win in the office bracket pool.

Do not speak of A, OW, D, his struggles with himself about it, (IF HE DOES, state "I know you will do the right thing" and CHANGE THE SUBJECT).

BE the Goddess. Make sure he sees this.

HE's a cake eating dog right now, and you can be a tasty bone, or a something that he can chew, but when he bites, it spits something bitter, and he wants to put it down. But, he always comes back... For another bite. Cuz even with the bitterness, it is so much tastier than the other bone...

Remember that. Make him chew on YOU. The more he does, the more he wants. And if the A doesn't stop, then you hit him with Plan B when YOU can no longer take the biting anymore.....

LG

This is also where exposure becomes a big help.
He is very likely trying to tell OW and others that you are OK WITH THE DIVORCE! That you want to get divorced too. But you're fighting over money, or custody, or some other such thing. That's whats dragging it out.

So if you expose to OW's parents, that puts a whole new spin on things doesn't it? Not so easy to bring the new BF to meet the parents....hehehe