Bugs:

Being Still? Good Idea.

And sorry about DSS.

You tried.

He is the product of two broken people.

You could have provided that stability and normalcy that would have given him a shot at a somewhat normal life. (please define normal???)

However, your WH had other plans.

Plans that he writes as he goes along. And that have nothing to do with the plans made yesterday.

Leave it at his feet.

But lets do a bang up Plan A finish, ok?

Invite him to a dinner at "our house" to celebrate his promotion/potenial promotion.

WH, Bugs. DD, DSS and even FIL/others that might be important to WH are invited.

And just pour it on. Plan A with everything you got.

Then, after the LSA is signed, Plan B, if needed.

You, of course, could start all this after your "be still" period.

In your corner,

LG

Bugs;

I hope this weekend that you are able to express your committment to DSS. But you being a daily active part of his life might be taken out of your hands. And that might be out of your control.

So let him know that. That you WANT to be his mom. That only WH and the courts will prevent you from being his MOM every day. And that you will always be there for him, even if those factors come between you.

None of us are advocating that you PULL AWAY from DSS. But bugs -- you might not get to control that. And please let him know that! Don't leave any confusion for him on who wants him!

I am very glad you got to Dr. for meds. I was sensing a heightened emotional response -- hopefully the meds will even that out.

Plan A BIG FINISH!!!

LG's idea was a great one!

My WS has a DD from a previous marriage too. He has decided to give up parental rights to her because her mom is getting married.

I tried to contact the EW to see if I could still see her, and if our DD could have a relationship together. She hasn't responded.

I understand how you feel about SS. I am in a sense trying to do the same thing.

I am actually happy to hear this... my heart was breaking for your DSS! And I don't even personally know him... lol

Thanks for all of the great support!

Just got back from the dr. office,,,,, he gave me 6 weeks of samples to start off with (he is a real sweetheart!).

I know it will take a week or so for meds to have a chance to kick in, , , , but am glad I finally did it.

"heightened emotions",,,, that is kind of an understatement! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> For me to cry once every 3 months used to be a lot. Crying Every Day, unheard of for me.

I know that the Ultimate well being of DSS will be taken out of my hands as this moves forward. At that time, it will certainly be laid at the feet of WH.

In the meantime, all I can do is my best for him.



EXACTLY what needs to be said over and over while I have the opportunity.

I thought of it earlier that I need to look at it as if I am preparing DSS for a long trip during which I may not be able to reach him. If I can help him "pack" enough of the good things from me in advance, give him his survival supplies, he can make it through to the 'end' when I can see him & give him fresh supplies!

Every time we are together between now and then is a chance to help him 'stock up'.

Then,,,,,, there is the WH. Big Plan A finish?

LG -GREAT idea on the celebration dinner! I will definately make that offer. Serious doubts that he'll accept (it is the HO weekend starting tonight), but that's OK.

In fact, I don't know what I'd do if he actually said YES!

Here's a question for anyone who cares to comment -

Why would the WH continue (from time to time), read my personal journal? Here's some options. Is it -

A. Wanting to find info to use against me legally?

B. Wanting to find info to use against me emotionally?

C. Wanting to find info that contradicts my spoke words and actions?

D. Plain old just nosy?

E. Other options???

I know he was in it again last night. I hadn't written anything in it for several weeks. Knowing he had been peaking at it before, I've not used it to 'vent' in any negative way about him, but rather as a re-statement of my spoken words & actions to him, written as if I were just thinking out loud to myself.

So,,,, just curious as to other's opinions on that.

because he is checking to make sure you are still available to him.
Its an easy way to see where your head is at without engaging in one of "those" talks.

wanting to know if there is anyone else in the picture.


I'd stop writing in it -- you don't want him knowing right now. Or take it someplace he can't access. Or lock it up.
Actually I would definitely remove his access to it ASAP. Leave him wondering if there are new entries, but no way for him to see them!!!

Bugs:

About the journal.

Let him read it.

Talk about the dinner you have planned.

Talk about him in a positive light

Have the dinner.

Mention "bob" at work/office/car dealership/school/whatever.

Make sure he reads that.

Get LSA

Go to Plan B.

LG...

Can't golf, but understands the wayward mind....

Those are the kinds of things I generally did write about when I was writing in it.

Not sure about mentioning the interesting person - he thought before that I was seeing someone. In fact, had himself convinced & telling other people that i WAS seeing someone, so that made what he is doing OK since I, too, had "moved on."


WIll make some updates to it only while in Plan A.

It will disappear in Plan B (along with me)

Hey - - you have NOTHING on me when it comes to being lousy at golf!! I bet you can drive a decent tee shot! Me, I am strictly a putt & chip kinda gal. I used to be killer around the green!


Besides,,, I really need help with understanding the mind of the WS MORE than I need a great golfer right now!

I usually drive the beer cart at our golf tournament - makes me much more popular than if I play.

Thanks guys,,,,,for everything!

Bugs:



You didn't have to say that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

LOL

LG <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LG - -

I'm in sales! It's all about keeping those customer's happy! I work in an industry that is very male dominated, so a day of golf and a cold beer goes a long way in customer relationships. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Don't start getting images of the Bud Light or Hooters Girls here!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Bugs:

Somedays the cart women are the only thing good on the golf course.....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
LG

I missed the post where you explained what Dr. Harley recommended on his radio show.

Would you mind sharing again?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi Mimi!

In a nutshell, Dr. Harley says Plan B. Time to protect me.

Can't really disagree there. Unpleasant conversation this am.

Let me back up - last night he called right after DSS had gotten sent to his room for a few minutes for back talk. DSS gave him quite the 'depressed' voice & attitude.

WH asked me about it = I told him that DSS was mad at me because he'd gotten into trouble. WH had specifically said that DSS sounded 'depressed', so I told WH that I was concerned that he was somewhat depressed & shared a few things of my conversation with DSS.

I could tell I was getting no where = WH's attitude was "well, so he's having problems "over there'". Sounded to me that he was looking to lay some blame, so I disengaged from the conversation rather than have a bad one.

I considered that perhaps my perception of WH's attitude could be wrong(DJ?), so vowed to myself bring up again at another time when I had my attitude in the right mode

This am it came up again. Apparently DSS asked WH last night if he was going to see WH. WH said no, this is your weekend with Bugs, you don't see me on those weekends. This explains a little about how he took it that DSS & I were 'having issues". He assumed that because DSS hardly ever asks when he is going to see WH,,,, of course in WH's mind the only LOGICAL explaination is that it is a problem between me & DSS.

I told him that I am reluctant to bring it up becuase he thinks I am being manipulative or lying, which I would NEVER do when it comes to the kids.

WH saying that he is "Just trying to understand WHY is it that the kids tell ME all of this stuff, but around him they are ALWAYS happy"

I said, "well, could be what I mentioned before, but don't want to do into right now with DD in the car."

He went on for a second, so I finally asked him what it was he wanted me to do. He said he didn't want me to do anything. That he has never had ANY problem with my parenting skills.

I kind of laughed. He said "what"
I replied, "well it wasn't so long ago that you told me you had a problem with the way I interact with DSS. It's good to know that is no longer the case"

That was one of the items on his list of REASONS for leaving. That it would be better for DSS because DSS and I didn't get along????

I said, "ok, well you sound like you are angry with me, so I just want to understand why"

WH said he didn't want to get into it, but just that "Bugs, you are just SO NEGATIVE. I know that you are unhappy and that you do not like the choices I have made, but you are tyring to put this all on me. There's no reason for it to be all so negative like this"

Bugs "Really? I don't mean to be negative. Please tell me how I am being negative so I can change that"

WH "Well, you said that you have 'a friend', who is your lawyer and that you'll 'get back to me after your lawyer and you have loooked at the paperwork', the way you said'did you expect me to sign the papers without having someone look at them'. All of that is so negative. Yes, you could just sign them. WE put together a VERY FAIR package. Now it's all just the lawyers dividing up our lives"

Bugs 0 "Sweetheart, I am not trying to be negative. I want to fix the issues in our marriage, build on the good and make it right. I want to do M, you want to do D, so that's what I have the lawyer for, she does D"

It went back and forth - WH wanted to argue about the details of whether or not it was "filed" and how I hadn't been "served",,,,,, that we should be able to just sit down and work it out. That we should 'both take responsibility for what we did that MADE this happen and move on. That he has chose the way he wants to 'fix' things, this is 'not the way we always said we would do this'. on and on

I did bite on the back & forth on the filing for a minute, but finally said, well, that is neither here nor there.

My responses were - "I do take responsibility for things I could have done better, and know that we can fix. I choose M. You are free choose D. That's your choice No, this is certainly NOT the way we said we'd do things. Honey, I am just being true to myself, I am sorry you feel this is so negative. I really don't want to argue about this. I really have to go, I love you, have a great day, bye. I hung up

I should not have hung up,,,, he was really MAD. He called right back. I told him I really didn't want to continue the conversation, as already too much had been said within DD's hearing. He agreed but gave me a speech about how disrespectful it was to just hang up.

Now, I wanted to argue that I had let him know I was hanging up and did say goodbye without just cutting off,,,,,but I didn't. I told him, ok, I won't do that again. He was barely in control of his anger at that point, but he had nothing left to aruge so he said goodbye.

It is just SO EXHAUSTING before, during and AFTER these conversations!!

So, what could I/should I have done differently?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

oh bugs;

Its just more manipulation. He's feeling sorry for himself that its been "put all on him."
Just more trying to get you to share the blame.

I know its hard to talk with your DD in the car -- so I would have used that a lot sooner in the conversation -- that she was there and you needed to go.

Because when you have those kind of conversations I think it is real important to get the mirror in his face.

"you don't like his choices" is a pretty soft phrase to use for HAVING AN AFFAIR AND ABANDONING YOUR FAMILY.

"how disrespectful it was to hang up" well how about how disrespectful it is to HAVE AN AFFAIR AND LIE TO YOUR WIFE???

And trying to steer you away from your lawyer. And trying to manipulate you into thinking he's being "fair".

It was all such a load of HOGWASH I hardly know where to start deciphering it!!!

But you need to do those things away from DD -- so that you don't let him get away with softening his situation.
And you can let him know its gonna get a LOT more negative. But that's HIS CHOICE, and not your fault.

Bugs,

Don't let him manipulate you, stay strong about the lawyer. He sounds alot like my WH. Everything is okay as long as it goes my way.

A fair package...huh. Nothing fair about infidelity and it's effects on families. Tell him to put his money where his mouth is.

Ohhh I'm so angry that he gets mad at you... just like my WH.

(((Hugs)))

I know how hard interactions are with the WH.

Still

Yes, he's trying to manipulate you!!! How is being SMART and not just signing off on papers that affect your future make you negative??? If you just signed off on those papers you'd be shooting yourself in the foot. Like he would just sign off on ANYTHING you gave him?? No, he wouldn't.

He wants his way SO BAD, he's blinded by his own greed and selfishness, really.

Thanks for the replies! It's good to know that you all see what I see,,,, but much more clearly!

You all give it much better definition for me. Although I have to say that when I hung up the phone this time, the thought that ran thru my mind was

"He's just mad because he's not getting is way. I'm not lying down and letting him do what he wants"

AND I didn't break into tears in front of DD! I was able to show her a happy face, get her thinking about her field trip today to the Science Center! She's so excited! I think she was OK by the time we got int the bldg.

I felt BAD that anything was said in front of her and am vowing to keep that from happening again. Period.



I love the way your mind thinks on these come backs! I'm usually really good at that kind of thing, but not so much when it comes to WH.

But - - are they not LB's? AND are they worth even bothering with at this point? I mean really, what good would that do when he's not listening or caring about anything I have to say?

I think you are absolutely right on target in these statements, BUGS..

It's the old FRUSTRATION RESULTS IN AGGRESSION HYPOTHESIS from Social Psych 101. He's frustrated that he can't wear you down.

STAY STRONG, BUGS..that's what I just luv about cha...I see you standing there with your CHEST OUT (assets showing) and HEAD HELD UP..batting those mascaraed eyelashes...GODDESS STYLE!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thx Mimi!

I haven't really been in much of a Goddess mode the last week or so. That whole camping fiasco and getting paperwork really wore me down.

Am feeling a bit better today. For the first time, able to let a little of the WH aggression roll off my back instead of taking it straight to heart.

BTW - - I forgot to add earlier that WH called back about me haging up, he did mention that I still care about him,(does that mean that something good is getting thru? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ) but of course, it was in terms of if I do, I should not do things like hang up on him.


I was really big time into Plan B preparation,,,wanting to do it sooner than later. Now, am not so sure when I am going to go dark.

I hesitate because
1. I am feeling better
2. Not sure it's the right time with WH being in such ANGER mode,,,,,
3. Want to go out on a Really GOOD note -- - one where WH has been (seemingly) responsive in a positive way

I think if I go now, he'll only interpret it as a way to try to "punish" him or manipulate him - Espeically in light of the revelation that I have a lawyer and we are going to court.

He's taking that as a "challenge" and he is wanting to strike back at me and is NOT wanting to see ANYTHING positive about me at all right now.

Also, he has been pretty much doing Plan B to me. He has managed not to see me in person but maybe twice in the last 3 weeks. He tries to only talk to me on a 'have to, about the kids" kind of basis. Always ending with "tell DD I will call her X".

He initiates almost NO general conversation with me. When he does, it is about work only.

Although,,yesterday I sent an email about funny news that I wanted to share with him. He did reply in a nice, funny way.

Should have expected the YUCK today based on it being HO night and a tiny bit of nice from him yesterday.

Do NOT try to gauge Plan B readiness off of HIM. Big mistake. Plan B is all about YOU and your energy level.

Don't try to read his moods into reaching him or not reaching him. Don't worry about his reaction to Plan B.
That is not for you to worry about, he'll see it as bitterness, or punishment but who cares? You know what Plan B is about.

He's Plan B'ing you? Hardly, but if he is cutting down on interactions its either because you threaten his choices or OW is on his a$$ about it.

As a WH its his full time JOB to not find good things about you! Don't sweat it.

If he's in big anger mode, then maybe you need to shelter your remaining love in Plan B. There is nothing more irritating than an angry WH thinking their stupid tantrums are justified in comparison to what THEY did.....HA!