I love your ATTITUDE and CONVICTION.

NO MORE PLAN A FOR HIM....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Bugs,

I'm so sorry. Boy right now I like to have a few words with your WH and they woudn't be very nice.

Just remeber you are a special woman.... and that WH of yours is just clueless. You've sone a great job plan Aing. I think it's time for plan B.

(((Bugs)))

Still

Thanks everyone. Just having a plan helps!

DD wanted to talk to her daddy one time that he called, so I let her. She told him I was mad at him, and I guess I didn't hide the look on my face and she tried to cover up with him. I felt horrible!

I told her it was OK for her to tell Daddy that because it is true. I made sure she knew I was not upset with her

I tried calling several time and I did not answer. I was calling Vm and accidentally called WH. He tried telling me how I am upsetting DD and that I need to get control of my emotions. That she is TERRIBLY upset and was scared to talk to him

Truth is, I did not get upset or out of control at all once I had DD with me. We went to the store after mcdonalds, and then to the movies. We came home and played ball outside. A GREAT day

WH left a message while we were at the movie

WH"Bugs I left a message for DD at the house please make sure she gets it"

The message was that he would NOT be able to call her at bedtime!!

YEP he is SO CONCERNED about her that he CAN'T interrupt HO time to call his DD who is SO UPSET.

Talked to Mom and began to set plans to move. NOONE but my family is going to know until we are on our way out of town. I will have to come back at some point for a few things, but am taking most of what I can and getting out of here

Not yet depressed - waiting for the delayed reaction to hit later

DD IS going to call her Daddy, even if it is to leave a message

I admire your stength in going through with this plan. It defidently seems now is the best time to start plan B. Good luck and I will say a prayer for you tonight.

Thanks, BH.

I will take call of the prayers I can get! Bless you!

Bugs:

Sorry about the W/E.

You had a plan. The WH showed up and you were winning, scoring Plan A points all the way around.

Still WH was there, trying to force you out of your plan.

And he did.

And Bugs is bugging out.

So you are following WH's plan now. Not Bug's Plan.

That is harsh, I know. Sorry. But that is what you are doing. You are reacting to him, instead of following your plan.

Did WH take your DD around the OW?

Yes.

And since you are following his PLAN, DD will be around the OW every other Weekend and twice a week going forward from here. OR as soon as the Plan D is final.

Remember the end point. Not the result of this play, or that play, but the final score.

I will disagree with Mimi about your DD. She is in the middle, and you do need to protect her. But by reacting, and not following the Plan, you are exposing her to more time with OW in the future.

It is WH that is doing this. And something you can not control. So you need to remain in control of yourself and the future as much as possible.

Maybe WH has pulled your last straw. Only you can decide.

Plan A is tough. Because you are kissing the butt of a WH. Who likes it.

I also know, that DD will not be spending much time with WH once the D is final. WH will fight and fight for visitation, support, whatever, and as soon as it is all signed sealed and delivered, DD will show up for the first couple of months at the assigned times and before long, WH is calling and asking if Bugs can keep DD tonight. And then, can you keep DD for this weekend? and suddenly, DD is hardly ever seeing WH.

And that is disappointing. Because that is who WH is. This is his second M. He might get #3, but the OW is strictly transitory from this point forward.

So, Bugs, follow YOUR Plan. Modify as needed, but follow YOUR Plan. Because your Plan is being made in a ratonal mind. WH's is not.

Sorry to be so blunt. I have followed your thread all weekend, but this is the first time I got to post.

On South Park, the Character you call a WH would have been dead by now.

I'm pulling for ya!

LG

Plan B is not meant to be a punishment.

If you go to Plan B right now, he will connect it to this event. And he will only see it as a punishment.

more later...

I don't agree that her WH forced her out of HER PLAN. He tried but failed!!



I disagree with this too, LG. Bugs did not LB or even try to slap his face which is what I probably would have been close to doing if I found out that he brought my daughter around that HO..especially knowing how deadset Bugs was against this. Bugs got in her car and left!! GOOD FOR HER!!



From my understanding her LSA reads that there is to be NC between DD and the OW.


IMO, a child's emotional life should never be sacrificed. She is young. This is a MAJOR CHUNK out of her life. What goes on now will remain with her FOREVER. Maybe I'm projecting some here, LG...but I am 52 years old ...and can still vividly recall scary EMOTIONAL experiences that my parents put me through as a result of their MARITAL CRAZINESS..thinking..she's "just a child"... and that INNER CHILD'S EFFECT ON MY ADULT LIFE..YUK..trying to CONTROL and FIX situations that are beyond my control....IMO, Bugs' daughter was beginning to do that..."TELLING ON HER DADDY" by asking about "HIS FRIEND", saying underneath, "MOMMY, PLEASE FIX THIS FOR ME, I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT"...YUCK, YOCK, YUCK..and heaven forbid, did they sleep together that night?; did they kiss and hug in her presence; IT GIVES ME THE CREEPS...surely BUGS can't protect HER from ALL OF THIS CRAP..but she can stand up as she did and do her very best to protect her daughter NOW from this DANGEROUS, SELF-DESTRUCTIVE MAN who is her WH...



This is only AN ASSUMPTION about the future. Bugs must do what is necessary to PROTECT her daughter NOW!!!

As Steve Harley told me, your first duty is to PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR SONS!! He warned me that my WH would be increasingly SELF-DESTRUCTIVE and that I would have to PROTECT MYSELF from him. Bugs is at this point, IMO. Her WH's major priority is th OW..to the detriment of his OWN CHILDREN. This is a sick, sick ADDICTION to the OW's CRACK...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />...Yes, when it comes to hurting children, I get mad...

Bugs;

I'm back. I wanted to post more about the style in which you go to Plan B.

I wholeheartedly support you going to Plan B -- on YOUR timetable. So, can you make it another 3 weeks until your planned move?

If not, then do it now. Because what we don't want to happen is for you to undo all your tremendous Plan A work!
We need to leave him with Friday-Night-Bugs.

And lets get into the details here -- you never filed your LSA, right? Because he had already filed the divorce. But nothing further has been done. Am I correct?

So nothing is in place regarding custody or visitation. Which puts your WH in the tenuious position of having abandoned his wife and child. Which gives him NO visitation "rights"....its just been on your goodwill.
Correct?

So...what I am getting at -- is that if you cannot trust him with your DD's welfare, then visits need to stop. There is no court mandate forcing you to let him have her and bring her around his ******.

I imagine that moving will greatly increase the difficulty for him to spend time with her. Oh well, consequence....

Would your mother be a good intermediary?

Lets help you PLAN your PLAN B.
Do you have ANY Plan A left in you??

Hey all!

Wow - - I missed some stuff and had to catch up.

Last night I played WH message for DD and then had her call and leave a message for him. He called back much later, but I did not answer as DD was already asleep. He did not leave a message.

This am I had her call him as usual. She left a vm. He called back, but my cell had fallen to the floor where I could not reach when driving. He called the Blackberry and it did not connect. I called right back for DD to talk to him.

She passed me the phone, so for her sake, I got on with him.

Bugs -"hi, do you need something?"

WH - "Bugs, so how long are you going to not talk to me?"

Bugs - "I don't know. I just don't want act out of anger"

WH - "well it's too late for that now, isn't it" - - very hateful voice

Bugs - "Do you need something?"

WH - "I was just trying to SHOW you something"

Bugs - "I do not want to discuss this. I do not want to say something I will regret". I am quiet and calm.

Wh- "Well you just need to know that I would NEVER do anything to hur DD. I DIDN'T do anything to hurt DD"

Bugs is silent

WH- "She had a GREAT time, She wasn't HURT"

Bugs -"I have to go and take DD into school."

I forget what he said

Bugs "I really need to go. Ok?" Again, quiet calm, gentle voice. No anger, no bitterness, no resentment.

After I dropped off DD I picked up a message that he apparently left when he called the cell phone and it was on the floor.

HATEFUL voice - "Bugs, you HAVE TO STOP IGNORING MY CALLS. I waited until 7 o'clock to talk to her. I called right back and it goes straight to voice mail? I WANT TO DD!!!"

Well, he is obviously trying really hard to play the Blame game here. I haven't kept him from talking to DD at all. I made sure they talked yesterday afternoon. I made sure she got his message last night, I made sure SHE called him even though HE WASN"T available last night, I made sure she called to talk to him this morning, and made sure she DID finally speak to him.

He thinks he was going to "Show me" that it is OK for DD to be around the ho. So I guess that makes it all OK for him to have LIED to me AGAIN about this?? I am supposed to TRUST him and say it's all OK???? Because a 6yr old little girl had a great time at a carnival and at Chuckie Cheese for one night????????/

He doesn't want to see anything. He doesn't see that this is WRONG and that there are both SHORT and LONG TERM repercussions here for DD, for her relationship with her Daddy and with Every Other Man for the rest of her life. Her future is based on the relationships she has and sees NOW. Does he want her to grow up believing it's OK to abandon your family? It's OK to just move on to another relationship whenever you want and to say the HE77 with everyone else around you & their feelings? Does he want her to believe that adultry is OK as long as One person is "done", no matter what the reality is?

I see no point in sharing any of this with him. It won't get through to him.

I agree, I don't want to Immediately jump right into Plan B, as WH WILL see it as Punishment. I've worked TOO HARD to let that happen.

That is why I talked to him for that brief moment this morning.

I need some more time for now to work this out in my head.

I'll check in later. Open for more ideas.

Thanks everyone for your support,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it means so very much to me to know I'm not alone. Having you all with your experience helps to keep me grounded when I just want to sink beneath the surface.

You're most definitely not alone bugsy!

OK -- sooooo, he needs a glimpse of post divorce world.
He needs to understand what the future he is choosing looks like. He thinks he can dictate your availability and DD's availability to him. UMMMMM NO!
When you have her its YOUR TIME. When he has her (which will be pitifully less and less) then its HIS TIME. And those times will not "blend".

Get that mirror in his face. Reply back to his "no harm done" speel with "we are married, it is not OK for my husband to introduce his MISTRISS to my daughter" -- and "it is extremely harmful for DD to think that infidelity in a marriage is OK"....and "when DD gets married, how will you feel if her husband has an affair?"

Those are not LoveBusters. Nope. They are TRUTH statements.

He needs to know you won't be friends later. You won't be cooperative co-parents. That this WILL be difficult.

I'm concerned that Bugs will have to do more and more of this kind of discussion AT THE END OF PLAN A.

If she moves into PLAN B more quickly, then there will be LESS of this at the end of PLAN A in his MEMORY BANK.

She can move into PLAN B DARKNESS with MORE of the positives of PLAN A.

My thought was that he will try to MANIPULATE her into getting UGLIER, PROVOKE FIGHTS, etc....all standard WS stuff...

The better my PLAN A was..the more my H tried to push me off of the horse..

If BUGS can hold out and STAY LOFTY fine, but I think it's going to be FULL OF BATTLES/TUMULTUOUS here towards END....

Mimi -- I think this is the "end" of Plan A.
Plan B is maybe 3 weeks away.

I think she needs to be giving him a clear view of what is coming. And framing it so he understands Plan B is not a punishment, but a reality of how divorced life will be.

Good valid points all around.

WH is pushing for 2 reasons.

1. My plan A IS having an effect and he does not like it, and therefore IS tring to provoke me into being the OLD BUGS to validate his A

2. Lake weekend is fast approaching,, I am sure the Ho is pushing HARD that they all of TOGETHER. She thinks that if she "WINS" this battle, she believes she will have won the war. She gets MY vacation tradition with MY family in her grasp.

AND

THIS is the one thing (her involvement with DD and the lake), that I have stood absolutely firm on.

I feel that right now this is a BIG crossroads. How I handle this and move to Plan B is CRUCIAL.

In my mind, the questions are these -

1. Addressing this latest development without LB'ing
WHILE AT THE SAME TIME
2. Not letting WH believe I am being a doormat or giving in
WHILE AT THE SAME TIME
3. Figuring out a way to go out of Plan A and into Plan B on a POSITIVE note.

For now, I think I am going to send him the following email to address his nasty voice mail -

DD spoke with you yesterday afternoon

DD recv'd your message last night

DD called you to say good night

She was asleep at 8:45

She called you, as she always does this am

My cell had fallen to the floor out of reach when you called

We answered & accidentially hit the disconnect key when passing the phone

She called you right back

I have not once ever kept her from talking to you.

I did not deserve your negative sounding message this morning.



I think it is straight forward and to the point.

OK. AGREED..a real balancing act..CALM ASSERTIVENESS...

(((Bugs)))

I'm sorry things did not go as you hoped.

Lexxxy and Mimi are giving you great advice so I will leave it to them.

Keeping you in my thoughts.

Well, it sounds to me like we are all moving towards the same page on this.



I agree this is VERY important point to TRY to get across.



Exactly!

Of course, I have to be able to pull that off. I am feeling pretty confident that I can.

Even yesterday, after finding out about the night before, I went and had a BIG cry, but then found my calm place fairly quickly. I was able to act without anger and give DD a totally enjoyable day without it being FAKE or FORCED.

I know that she did not look at me during that afternoon and think she had to do something special to Cheer up Mommy. She was able to just enjoy our time together, and I think she received the reassurance she needed from me. And Lord knows she really needed reassurance.

It's NOT her job to try to take care of ME. It's mine to take care of HER. I have worked very hard to keep it that way and will continue with that forever.

So,,,,, am going to use my energy to work on my next interaction with WH. I need to practice what I am going to say and how I am going to say it. I must have a PLAN for this specific conversation well in advance.

Big focus will be on not engaging in a FIGHT about it. I accept that I will not be able to change WH's mind about this.

I CAN however, make my statements, express my feelings in a calm, rational way and just leave them out there. No expectation for a response from WH other than what I have already gotten,,,, it will be more of the same. When I get that in return, I can leave it lay out there. I don't have to pick it up.

Calmly Assertive Bugs

OMG, this gives me GOOSEBUMPS to read this. In all seriousness, as serious as I ever will be, I think GOD brought you and your little girl into my life, BUGSY.

It such a GIFT TO ME today to hear a MOTHER say this. To this very day, my mother wants ME to take care of HER..I started taking care of her when I was your daughter's age and only just a FEW YEARS AGO...STOPPED TRYING to do the job for her that she was supposed to do FOR ME...

THANK YOU FROM THE VERY BOTTOM OF MY HEART..DEEP INTO MY SOUL....

WHAT A BLESSING YOU ARE TO YOUR DAUGHTER!!!

Excellent Plan Bugs.

Just my own curiosity -- but how did you describe the situation to DD? Does she understand who daddy's "friend" is?

And does DSS know whats coming?

I greatly admire how you have handled things. You are so good at this. You have your cry, get under control, and face things so bravely. You are an inspiration!!!

Just amazing!

Mimi:

WH will take DD whereever he wants. And Bugs, without completly cutting him off to access, cannot do much about it.

Lex is striking somewhat of a balance here.

Should WH take DD around HO? No. But he will, cuz he's wayward.

And I truly respect your opinion. I just wanted Bugs to stay on PLAN. Her plan, not whatever stupid thing that WH came up with today.

DD is getting the truth from Bugs. Big difference. DD will understand that it isn't HER fault. Because Bugs will address that.

Confusion for WH will be a fact of life going forward. AND that impact is scary for DD. Children need BOTH parents. But one parent in this case wants to abdicate the responsibility.

About MY ASSUMPTION for the future of DD/WH relationship?

The Sunday evening/Monday morning exchanges prove it.

WH: "Your keeping DD away from me and damaging her with your actions" Translation: Your making me the bad guy, and it should be BUGS!

But as soon as WH isn't the "Bad Guy"? He will not get in touch, and drift away...


Bugs:

Mimi is right about this: "The better my PLAN A was..the more my H tried to push me off of the horse.."

Your WH was pushing you Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Your Plan A is working great.

Have the dinner as I proposed. Or something similar. Then proceed to darkness.

Your ability to remain calm and collected when dealing with WH must be killing him. He will try even worse to provoke you.

Just from this line:

"Bugs, so how long are you going to not talk to me?"

Wait till he gets the plan B letter.

You told him the rules about Ho/DD interactions He decided to break them. He won't ask again. He will just do.

Plan B isn't the punishment for that. But what will the punishment be?

About the lake thing?

Stand Firm. You are winning on this.

LG