LG - -

Hey there.

You know how it goes, you read here, you make your plan, you do your best to stick with it. You try to let whatever WH says rolloff your back, but it's really, really hard sometimes!



It HURT really bad when he threw at me that I haven't changed at all!! OUCH!!



Ok, I know I've read this multiple times here, but it is one thing that I TRULY continue to struggle with.

It FEELS more like the conflict is due to WH being as DONE with me as he says,,,,that it is due to his LACK of feeling for me that he is interacting with me at all, and when he does he is being this way.???


I'll buy into that I am still a Goddess! I won't let him take that away,,,,,,,,,,but I am not so sure as to the intenal comparison.

Yes, I've let the "I left because of YOU not because of OW" get to me (again!)


NO Doubt about that!



To quote the ever so wise Ms. Mimi - This is WAR - Do NOT let the enemy know of your plans!

THAT I get!

Tough to not worry and try to figure out what the Enemy Plan is! I really wouldn't give it much though EXCEPT for the DD/lake trip situation. I've truly accepted that WH will do what WH will do in every other regard.

BTW - Loved the vacation analogy! It is Right on the mark!

WH replied to my offer to try mediation - Here is his reply -

"The children first is the program, that I understand is set for us to go through by the courts. This should help this situation. I will not see another counselor with you, this has not been benefit to us as a couple. I understand you feel it has been a help to you.

Personally I felt I had a good thing going with IC, then you decided to make her your counselor as well. This I am sure is my perception, but you would think by your claim trying to understand you could have gotten your own assistance.

On last night I agree the conversation got out of hand for DD's sake and it will not happen again. I am not concerned on her well being on our situation she is strong and smart and her knowing that the two of us love her unconditionally is what she needs.

On your issue with the lake trip, DD and DSS are the 2 most important things in my life. Even though I feel this is your attempt to continue to control my actions. You WIN no on this trip is going that you should disapprove of. In short OW and her son are not going."


Quick Comments - I did not EVER hear that WH had issue with us seeing the same counselor. If I HAD, I would have gone to someone else. HE had been seeing her and then we went together.

I THOUGHT that us both seeing her would be helpful to our MARRIAGE counseling.

Do I reply back with that information and an apology? I REALLY feel badly about that, as WH NEEDs counseling so much! I'd have given up virtually ANYTHING for him to keep going to IC!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

RE DD - - The comments about her being STRONG, etc CONCERN me. He still does not ACCEPT the risks and dangers to her in this entire situation if WE do not protect her in every way. Am I wrong in reading that into his comments??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

His last line is hard to understand - It should read that No one that I (Bugs) disapprove of is going on THIS trip.

As much as I would LIKE to believe him,,,,,I don't. I think he's lying.

How do I respond in Plan A Style????????????

My VOTE is NO MORE OF THESE RELATIONSHIP DISCUSSIONS with him...I don't think AN APOLOGY is necessary...I think he's trying to suck you in..get you off of the horse...

To me, he seems intent on RATIONALIZING/JUSTIFYING at this point, trying to PROVOKE you, making continuation of the affair OK for everyone involved.

There's no reason for you to BELIEVE him about the trip given what he did so recently this past weekend. What's to keep them from showing up?



SOOOOO...I would just do the LIGHT, FLIRTY, PLAYFUL STUFF from now on....and tell him that you will not be discussing THE TRIP anymore...THEN DON'T DISCUSS IT...Haven't you and your daughter already made other plans??? Hint..Hint...

ETA: Maybe it's OK to REPEAT OVER AND OVER WHEN YOU GET CHANCE..."I HAVE CHANGED..IT WAS WRONG OF ME TO TRY TO CONTROL YOU IN THE PAST"...

Hey Mimi!



You know, I guess I let myself get sucked in, , because I didn't really view these as R discussions.



I'm still waffling on this, as I AM sorry that he POSSIBLY felt/feels this way. I consider an aplogy a plan a move - to demonstrate change, take responsibility, even if I might disagree with his "perception" of it.



I TOTALLY agree with this.



Nothing could keep them from showing up,,,,,,,Unless by some MIRACLE WH DEICDES TO INVITE ME!!! HA HA!!



That was what I had been thinking as well,,,,,,Immediate pressure is off (for now).


I like it!

Back to thinking about Plan A mantras,,,,fun, exciting BUGS, but not GLOATING because I think I've WON Bugs.

Geex,,,,good thing I've lost some weight, this balancing act is hard enough without those pesky exta pounds!

BTW - I DID dress in Goddess style today, head to toe, Diva sunglasses in place!

So many things your WH said, were word for word what mine has said to me. I know they hurt. i am amazed at how well you keep your cool. You are really quick on your feet too! Good job!

I have noticed a couple things about my WH when he says those things to me. Yeah, he is trying to rattle me, and make me lose my plan, but a lot of times I see where he is talking more about his issues and his thoughts, then about me. Make sense?

Keep It Simple for the WS..

I think the main thing that he wants and needs to hear is:

"I'm sorry I WAS WRONG..... about this and that..."

Saying the same thing over and over won't matter. He's hardly listening and has a FOGGY, ALIEN BRAIN..focusing on getting to his next DRUG FIX...

Hi Bugs,
Since the OW is not going, maybe suggest to WH that you bring DD to the lake since it is your weekend and make it an even better birthday celebration for DSS. What he is saying sounds very suspicious to me though.

As a sidebar to you and others...I sometimes wonder from reading the posts on MBB if people walk away a little more confused about what to do in their situations because of sometimes conflicting advice. It seems to turn into so much of a game and when you love somebody why does it have to be that way.

Diana

Bugsmom,

My response w/b something like:

Ws,

I am hoping my real H can read this message since he is a bit more understanding than you are. First of all there needs to be some clarification so you do not make incorrect assumptions, again.

1. The children first program is a good thing. Your supportive response is appreciated.

2. Going to the IC. Glad you went. Sorry you felt this way. Wish you had shared your true feelings earlier. I thought your IC was capable of keeping confidentiality. If this is a problem, I will be glad to change ICs. Then both our ICs can share info so that they are not only getting 1 side of the true story.

3. All our children should know we love them. As for the unconditionally part, well that is hard t/d when having an A. As much as you claim, your actions show you choose OW and her children over yours. I can not see how unconditional love is even a consideration from your current situation. Btw, our children are smart enough to have figured that out, so if you tell them you love them unconditionally, you may come off sounding a bit foolish in their eyes. They may not tell you this but it is already a known fact.

4. As for the OW and her children not going, ok... isn't that what a parent who loves their children unconditionally would automatically do? Not bring their own children into the adulterous R? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> This sounds like babble. Do you know that you often babble like this?

************************

NOTE: If you have further info to communicate at this point, then do so.

The above sample is in an itemized form and probably easier for the WS to read. It also helps the BS keep the subjects organized. This s/b more of a factual response vs an emotional one. See you are not trying to teach the Ws anything. In fact in some cases, you are even using their own words against them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

The key is for Bugs and others to be knowledgeable of the MB PLANS in order to best follow them. Our goal is to help support and encourage the MB PLANS. This is definitely NOT A GAME. These are strategies aimed at BATTLING INFIDELITY and RESTORING MARRIAGES if possible.

Sidebar to you Diana is to read the the books..SURVIVING AN AFFAIR and HIS NEEDS YOUR NEEDS for starters....to help you better understand what's up.....

I'm all about the K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Diana - thanks for your post! I will ponder your idea, but am certain that will be rejected outright by WH. The LAST thing he wants is ME on this trip.



I really want to respond to this. Now please note this is only MY opinion.

Sometimes conflicting advice can be a good thing. It helps you to consider many things you may not have before.

Like anything else, it's your choice what to use and what to throw out. Ultimately it is each individual's decision what they DO in their own life.

HOWEVER,,,,,,,studying the MB principals a lot, reading Dr. Harley's books,,, will give you insight to those posters here that really stick to those principals. THOSE are the posts that read most thoroughly, give the most consideration, and the advice I put into practice more often than not.

It's the MB principals that have saved marriages (IMHO). THAT is what I want for me and thus what I try to follow.

In my experience, EVERYONE here has the desire to HELP and are all very generous people in their time and efforts. Some you will agree with, some you won't. That's OK.



I can see where you might think this at first on this site, but I assure you, this is no game. This is MY LIFE and MY FUTURE.

It's not a game, it's a plan. Understanding what starts affairs, what happens during an affair, how they end, how best to help them end, and how to help MYSELF thru this most horrible of situations has been invaluable to me.

When the person THAT YOU love chooses an A, it forever changes "How things should be".

JMO since you asked

Hey Orchid!

I always love your direct appraoch!

I am holding off on ANY response for now. Feeling that right now is the time to just sit still and let the dust settle a bit.

IF/when I do respond, you are so right that it should simply be factual, not emotional.



AHHH to be the Goddess of Reverse Babble!! Yet another goal of mine!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mimi- - we were posting at the same time. Your response to Diana, much more direct than my rambling one!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

DD just called. WH picked her up from school today,,, something he has been promising to do for some time. She usually rides the bus, so this was extra special for her.

She chatted away for a long time about nothing. She had an "accident" today at school. She's had a couple of close calls the last few days,,,,, I am concerned about this being a symptom of her emotions but am holding that thought for right now.

Talked to WH,,, the cold, short talking WH for sure. Told him that DD's teacher has parent/teacher conference times avail. tonight or Monday night. He asked which I wanted.

I can't make it tonight, but he could go tonight and I could go on Monday. He chose for us both to go on Monday, which surprised me. Probably just his fear of me talking about when when he's not around,,,,,,, can't have Bugs spreading any TRUTH around!! EEEEKK!

I DIDN'T say a word about WHY I couldn't make it tonight and he didn't ask. No biggie or change there.

I used my terms of endearment. Didn't bring up his email or anything about last night or the trip. Just told him I'd call at bedtime. "Bye Sweetie"

It was the best I could do for now. I COULD have praised him for picking up DD since it meant so much to her, but frankly his little gestures mean nothing IMO. Just like all of the "great places and things they do together".

It's easy to buy a child's love of activity. It's another to earn it by being a good parent, giving them what they need, protecting them, etc.

Don't get me wrong, WH DOES love them both VERY much. Just as a WH, he's not being the best parent.

Am off to meet friends for dinner.

Bugs:

You haven't changed at all? WH hasn't. HE's exactly the same as he was six months ago and a year ago. A selfish WH.

Don't ever get bothered by this.

In His Needs, Her Needs, Dr Harley talks about the Spouse will attack the EN that the other spouse most needs. If your want your spouse to be home for dinner? (Domestic Support) You stay late at work, or go to the Bar and have a Beer. Admiration? You say "that was stupid, can't you do anything right?"

THAT is what WH is doing. You have made changes. He KNOWS this. And you have told him, told him and told him. And he SEES it. So, he needs to kick you down with that.

"I left because of YOU, Not OW."

Same Issue.

Is OW Going to the Lake?

Yes, but not in WH car. She is driving up seperatly. Count on it. She may have a seperate Campsite. Closeby. But There.

Stick to your guns.

I was thinking that you could invite yourself. If it is a big birthday party, why can't you be there?

Ask if you even just drive up for the party and come back. If no OW, why is that a problem?

In your reply to his email:

WH:

I WIN? I will think I have WON when you return HOME.

How about this? I drive up with DD on Saturday (or Sunday/Monday) to attend the party, and then DD and I return in the evening, or when its time to go. If there is "No One this trip is going that you should disapprove of" Then you should be able to find some room for us.... And hey, it was my Weekend with DD. We can visit you at the camp or go with some other plans I have been kicking around.

Will you be around to finish up the Yard? I really need the help...

Bugs.


Ignore the fogbabble about the IC. If he wanted to go, he would go. (I would never go, nut'n wrong wit me!) Just more excuses.

The Families First program? YADA, YADA, YADA. Yes, the court will require it. They will tell you that "your parents are D'ing, but we can all be one big HAPPY Family" Yes. It will be a program. But not what DD needs, nor DSS for that matter.

If he denies your attendence, then OW is there. Bingo.

If, he does let you come visit, and OW was there, then he had to kick her out while you came by. That has a certain sweetness to it.

Ain't gonna happen, but put the ball in his court on this.

Remember, your plan was to go to Plan B the day after school ends. So, this could be the final interaction.

LG.

Bugs: About your post to Diana? Very good. Mimi was on point, but you made very valid points as well. You DO have to read alot around here, Read the Books, or attend a MB weekend, etc, to truly GET what is going on. I hope Diana gets up to speed.... We can help, and will wait.

AHHH,,,, LG!

What a wonderful, insightful planner you can be!



I'm going to chew this one around,,,,,,and see what I can put together. Of course, WH will see right thru it, but if I phrase it just right it could work.

Since it is a 4 hour trip to where they are going, it's not as easy as popping by.

I don't know for sure where they are staying. I think I'll call the normal hotel where WE stay on Memorial. Since the weather can be iffy this time of year, we stay at a hotel where they have an indoor pool for the kids.

WH will have made the reservations for everyone's rooms. I can just call to "double check" how many rooms and nights he has reserved.



Deep down I know that you are right,,,,,,


EXACTLY what I said to my sister earlier!! They don't give a crap about what's right. They care about moving you thru the system and will approach this as it's all supposed to be NORMAL! PUKE!!


OOPS,,, gotta call my boss back!

Bugs,

It is also required here about the KidsFirst program. I went right after WH left. Scored me points with the judge at our first meeting.

I do have to say alot of it was hard to swallow. Your right about every one being on big happy family. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are. They tried to tell me I should not have told my kids about the affair... I should force my DD16 at the time to visit her dad. IMVHO alot of BS. Altough I understand the point of not having a tug of war with the child. But I feel as a parent we should be ablt to decide what we morally wish to teach our children.

Keep up the great work BUgs... you are awesome

Still

Thx Still.

I think of court as a dirty word these days!

I talked to kids earlier, then to WH

He asked me to 'look around there for DD's tennis shoes'

I aid, sorry I am not home right now but will call you later when I get there and let you know if they r ther

I did not say anything about where I was or what I was doing

I waited for a bit after getting home to call. Had to leave vm 'hey sweetie, I do not see DD's tennis shoes anywhere, but have her crocs here if u need them. Let me know

Some time later I was going to get something out of my car and he says 'Boo!'from the shadows at the side of the house. I nearly peed my pants!

Oops,, I wasn'r wearing pants (or panties) I was in a Goddess nightie

WH- u are going to get the neighbor all excited walking out here like that.


He came in to get the Crocs,,and got lots of peeks of me as I dropped her shoe a couple of times!! Ooops!

As he was getting in his car he asked 'so have you had your b.o.b. Time yet?'

I answere ' not YET'

He left so I sent text and invited him to b.o.b. Time

A while later he replied to my text from the weekend saying'How can I be so mad at you and yet I still want to hear you '***'?

We texted back and forth for a hour. I invited him over again.

He said sorry because he has DD.

I told him FIL is there, it never stopped you before

He said he did not want to risk it

So,,,,I said I would make due for tonight! But invited him for tomorrow night when DD will be here in her own bed!

He replied 'don't know'

I told him to think about it -- I would certainly be thinking of it!

I think that it was some good plan a stuff!!

Yowser - good stuff Bugs.

I wonder what he will be thinking about tonight.....

Thx Eph!

Figured since I could not sleep, maybe I'd try to cause him to lose a little sleep as well!

I have to own up to being especially proud of myself. For propriety sake I would never share the details, bit it was some HOT stuff that also repeated some boundaries.

I have GOT to try to sleep! My battery is going dead, which is probably a good thing!

Nite!

Your PM INTERLUDE made my morning...

I was grinning from ear to ear on the way to one of my gruesome morning work tasks....



This is a PERFECT INDICATION of what PLAN B will do to him..

Don't cha just love, love, love the HARLEY PLANS?????



And listen up, ladies!! A GODDESS HAS ALWAYS GOT TO BE PREPARED!!!



MORE THAN GOOD....SUPERB!!!!

POWER TO THE GODDESSES OF THE WORLD!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Mimi! I woke up smiling, too!

In a way, even this morning was pretty good.

I talked to the kids, then WH. I asked how he was, and then I told him I am , "Tired & horny" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

We chatted a bit, I told him I didn't sleep much and was running late this am,,,, "In fact, I'm standing in the bathroom naked right now"


Then,,,,he was stalling a bit, not saying much when SUDDENLY,,,,,the ALIEN showed himself - -

Wh"So, did you get your email and are we set for the holiday?"

Bugs - "well, I'd hate to think you'd lie to me"

WH-"If I was lying I wouldn't be SO UNHAPPY about it!"

I made no further comment on the subject and neither did he.

WH - "So, has the,,,,,,,,,PERSON,,,,,, who works for you talked to the person that works for me?" (the kids were still in the car so he did not use the word lawyer)

Bugs - "I don't know"

WH - "Well as I understand it we will start switching holidays no matter WHOSE "weekend" it is, right"

Bugs - "Once things are settled it will be according to whatever is in the parenting plan, when it is finalize"

WH - "So, how many changes were made to it?"

Bugs - "WH, I don't know, and I'm not going to discuss this with you. That's what I have a lawyer for. I don't do divorce, I do marriage, my lawyer does divorce"

Wh - "Well I'd think you could talk to me about it"

Bugs - "Nope, as I said, I do marriage. I want to be married to you. You don't want to be married to me, then that's what I have a lawyer for"

WH - "Well thanks for NOTHING"

Bugs - sweetly, nicely and light "Well, right back at ya babe." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Wh - "Well, I guess I'll go"

Bugs - "Ok, sweetie, talk to you later"

Now he didn't sound ANGRY, more tired and confused than anything.


Not so long aog, I would have been DEVASTATED after this conversation.

I would have been SO HURT with WH making it so obvious that he is PUSHING hard to get the D completed.

I would have felt like the previous night was for nothing. I would have felt USED and MANIPULATED,,,,,and believe that I am nothing more than a piece of meat to WH.

Don't get me wrong,,, I can list those things above because they HAVE been crossing my mind!

HOWEVER - -

At THIS moment, I am taking this conversation as an indication that last night's exchange has Angered the Alien Wandering Husband and HE is fighting back against the H to keep him down deep.

Can I get a confirmation from anyone on that? Have I lost my mind or is it that I am "getting" the right idea? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />