Bugs:

Have you noticed that Flamingo is ONE OF OUR GIRLS...A TRUE GODDESS...you can't just have any kinda CURTAINS.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Bugs:

You said this:

"BTW- I only feel bad for the LG you are now,,,not the dirty rotten scoundrel you were then!"

I never considered myself that. It's part of what I understand the FOG to be.

I went to work, I paid the bills, I was a good dad, I took care of things around the house, (Ok, somewhat!) I was affectionate with Flamingo. (Ok, not like NOW, but I still hugged and talked with her.)

So remember that. I spite of all the things that have gone on between me and Flamingo, and You and Drac, he still thinks that he was operating as a good guy during this period. Yucky, I know, but part of the reconciliation process and the forgiveness needed to get to recovery.

Agonizing?

I was destroying Flamingo. I was somewhat still ok.

Look, all I did was buy curtains! What's up with her? She will settle down and merrily we would go into the future.

WRONG.

In hindsight now, I can see that DS was severly affected. AND he truly appreciates what his parents have now.... He enjoys the stage, but he is really somewhat of an introvert. HE knows, for sure, that we have his back now.

Wednesday.

I had a morning meeting, starting at 7:30, I blow it off. OW shows up. LG>>> can only go to half-mast if you know what I mean.

LG has learned a lot. LG is no longer the old LG. He's the newbie. I spend most of the day surfing MB... Even printing out much of Dr Harley's info on Affairs, the lifecycle, etc. So I can read it at home, study it.

DS gets off bus at 3:45, and W shows up to take him home. I go too. Time to talk.

Sit on couch with Flamingo for several hours and talk about the Harley MB concepts. Finally learn how to TALK with each other. MB gave us a language. An ability to frame things that we needed to say, in a manner that made sense to both of us. I finally started to understand Her Needs. And she started to understand mine.

It's getting late. Flamingo is wrung out. So am I. She looks at me, and says, "I don't care where you sleep tonight"

I've been sleeping at the office. I'm not sleeping in the guest room, nor the couch. And even after all the talk we have had, I still can't believe that she doesn't care where I sleep.

So, I pack up and head to the office.

It was the best thing she could have ever told me.

Anything else? The butterfly wings would have created a hurricane elsewhere. But those words, "I don't care where you sleep tonight" started what happened next.

>
>
>
>
We lived happily ever after?
Not yet...

LG

Mimi:

You know what?

She really likes the curtains NOW!

They represent SO MUCH.

Just like your "For Sale" sign....

LG

OK...I know there's a SCRIPT somewhere..where do you GUYS have it hidden????

This is the "YOU CAN'T SAY THAT I WASN'T A GOOD HUSBAND SPEECH"....I heard it more than once... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yep, there is a secret WS script society out there, I just know it!

Hat to interrupt your wonderful threadjack, but a quick Drac update.

In earlier conversation he was relaying a convo. W/his boss. His boss said he hasn't been the same since he's been back at our company

Drac told him he is NOT the same. He says he doesn't take things for granted any more and he doesn't take the job personally!

What a load o'crap. He sure takes ME for granted. And who works 12+hrs every day w/o it being personal?

Later convo w/Drac he hems and haws around about how he needs to bring kids over early Thurs am due to a meeting

Then says 'well the last wknd of the month, it's my weekend anyway but I wanted to tell you I am taking the kids to the lake'

I said 'oh'

He went into detail about how he figured MY family would do something the following wknd.

He sounded almost sorry. It was weird

Of course I asked who was going,,,but was light and breezy. Asked where they were staying etc. No mention of the ho by either of us.

Then I asked to use the tent the next week, as we will be camping at the lake w/my family.

He said I can use the tent Anytime

I said thanks, well have a great night. Bye!

Light and breezy. Not upset about His plans! As I have plans of my own!

Is it Wed yet?

And now,,,back to the LG/Flamingo Saga,,,,,

Bugs:

Thursday.

I'm sleeping in the office.

The phone rings. I wake up, go to answer it. No one there.

It's 3:30 am.

I sit down. The phone rings again.

It's Flamingo.

Yes?

F> I've decided that no matter what, I need you here. I've been up all night and the only thing I can come up with, is that I need you here.

LG> Ok, I'm coming straight home.

We talk on the cell phone while I'm driving home.

It takes about ten minutes.

I go upstairs to the bedroom. She hugs me. We talk some more, and she falls asleep in my arms...

If I had stayed in the house, she might have walked down the hall.
If I had stayed in the house, she might not have ever walked down the hall.

Later, she said that she really meant that I can sleep anywhere in the house. She really wanted me there. But she just didn't phrase it right.

I doze, waking at 6:30 to get ready for my weekly meeting at 7:30.

Flamingo and I kiss, and hug, ILY's, and she continues to doze.

In the car, the cell phone, (Which never comes in the house, or is out of my sight) is buzzing in the car....

OW, has called three times. She was outside the office and wondering where I was.

LG> At the house.
OW> "at the house?" What do you mean by that?
LG> She called me last night and asked me to come home.
OW> She called you?
LG> Yes, and I went home.
OW> But LG, you were OUT OF THE HOUSE!, WHY did you do that!
LG> Because she called me, and asked me to come home.
LG> And it's where I'm going to stay. It's over.
OW> What?
LG> It's over. This time, for real. I will always choose Flamingo over you.
OW> (Who is on way to her office, and going to be late, and I'm about to go into my meeting...Can we meet later? at the park?
LG> 9:30?
OW> OK, I'll meet you then.

I go into my meeting.

10 minutes later, my cell phone vibrates. It's Flamingo. I don't answer it.
5 minutes later, other call. I realize something's up. I walk out of the meeting, talking to Flamingo.

F> LG, I just got a call and a woman said "I don't deserve him!" and hung up.
LG> What?
F> she repeated it, and then said: What's going on?
LG> Don't worry, I'll take care of it. (Mr Fixer....)

I then listened to the message that Flamingo had left.

That was the most amazing and powerful ILU that Flamingo ever said to me. I saved that message as long as I could, and then one day, without notice, Verizon deleted it. I saved it over a year. [email]Da@n[/email] Verizon.

THE cat was out of the bag.

Flamingo suspected, and thought it was someone else, for about a year.

She calls me at the office. Let meet for lunch. We need to go over some things. Ok.

She calls me back.

I'm committed now. I understand a little bit about MB. And I also know I have been lying for a very long time. I personally vow to myself, I will answer any question, with complete honesty.

F> LG, how long has this been going on?
LG> 5 years.
F> 5 YEARS!, OMG! Any Children?
LG> No Children.
F> OMG!, LG, how could you?
LG> silence.
F> OMG, She hangs up.

Just after that, OW calls me, she's on her way. She was at the park, and I wasn't there, what's going on?

LG> It's over. No more Lies.
OW> How could you!
LG> I think you know why now, for sure.
OW> BUT YOU WERE OUT OF THE HOUSE!
LG> Yes, BUT SHE CALLED ME, and ASKED ME to COME HOME.
OW> hangs up.

F> Calls back. I need more than Lunch. I just told my supervisor what I just found out. And he told me to take all the time I needed. "Can you drive me home?"
LG> Yes, I'm on my way....

I avoided OW that day. She called my cellphone incessantly. But she did not come to the house.

Flamingo and I sat on the couch. We talked. She asked me all the real big questions first....

WHO?
Any others?
STD's
Can I afford this House without you?
Was DS ever exposed to OW? No, not directly, and you were there.
Overnights?


Then we started to get into the details

She raged sometimes, but was amazingly calm. Thank you MB.

I just spoke. Times, places, what happened, She would ask questions and I would answer.

The big picture came out. She got more details later. I was debriefed over the next three weeks. Literally.

We had to go get DS from school. We had talked for 5 hours at that point. When we returned to the house, DS went out to play and we heading to the privacy of the bed room...

That's when I started rubbing her feet, with lotion. Something she really enjoys. I broke down and cried. THAT was the real turning point.

She knew going forward, that I had changed. I had turned a corner. She knew I was different, but she just didn't know it for sure until then.

She was different as well. MB had provided just enough protection.

I had also ordered HNHN at that point, and she knew it. I had also knew about the MB weekend in Philly in Oct 05. We signed up for it five/six days later.

Friday? The OW shows up at my office. She walks in, and sits down. "You need to talk to me."

LG> Stay on that side of the desk.
OW> Why?
LG> Because it's where you belong.

The phone rings, it's Flamingo.

F> Hi! what's up?
LG> OW is here right now, she just walked in.
F> I'll be right there.
LG> Please hurry!

LG> to OW: You can go now, she will be here in 5 minutes.
OW> No, I'll stay.

Flamingo shows up.

Why she didn't ******-slap OW I will never know. But she smiled brightly and sat down.

15 minutes later, OW stood up, and walked out of the office.

That was the last time I talked to her. Flamingo talked to her two more times. Once thru the door, when Flamingo locked it and F told her that she wasn't wanted here. And the next time, about 10 days later, after we had caller ID installed, she called, and F picked up.

That was a close to a B-slap as you could get.

And that was it.

Did Flamingo ride the roller-coaster? You bet. The hills are lower now, and there are some unexpected turns, but otherwise, she's in good shape.


Why did I decide to lay this all out on your thread?

Because maybe it was time to say it.
Because, maybe you really needed to read it, because Flamingo knew what to say and when to say it. Drac will need to hear the same words from you.
They might be a little different.

I never had a conversation/exchange/discussion/argument where I stated that "ILYBNILWY" "I need space" "your Horrible" etc.

So, I had laid down alot of hurt, A lot of entitlement. But I was amazingly discreet. Like I said, she really didn't know for sure until one year before dday. And really, she didn't suspect for very long before that. I was a dirty rotten scroundrel. A CAD even.

I hope to have moved past it.

I attended our DS's 8th grade graduation today. The best part? The woman on my arm. Really.

Enjoy your discussion with Steve tommorrow.

That's where the difference will be made.

Good luck!

LG

LG,

You Da Man

Bugs,

Good Luck tomorrow

Bugs,

Will be praying for your meeting with Steve. I echo the others in saying he is great. I think I have talked to him 3 or 4 times already myself.

If I could just get WW to talk to him.....

Bugs:

I never thought about it that way, and I do believe you are right. Thank you for that.

Mediation does go easy on child custody cases. Ours was done with within 10 minutes.

LG,

I feel very honored that you chose to share all of that here on my thread!

I am so happy your & Flamingo found MB, that you restored your M & your family, and for your being here to help so many others!

You are a blessing to so many people!

I sent Drac 2- Plan A TM last night. No reply

He came in the house this am. Dd was watching tv in our bed. I was standing there in my Goddess undies!

He talked to DD, then high tailed it outta there- FAST. I had just continued to go about my business of getting dressed and gave him a breezy 'see ya'

I did call him on the way to work as I had heard of a fatal accident on his usual route to work. Had to leave vm

I missed his return call - his voice mail said something about 'sorry to disappoint you, but I am alive & well'.

I have not called back. I am just feeling like pulling back a bit is the thing to do.

It's my night off from kids, and I know he saw my makeup bag by yhe door for tonight and could see I was dressing for 'Bug's night out'.

Sitter called me to be sure it wasn't ME in the accident. Told me Drac had called this am and told her his friend R would pick up the kids tonight. They are going out for one of R's D's 14th bday tonight

He did not say word 1 to me about that at all. So, guess we are on the secret lives plan still?!

Can't wait - 2 hrs to go!

BC- thx for ck'ing in!

Eph- {{hugs}} hang in there!

INH - glad that you were open minded enough to see what we were saying.

Be sure to post on your thread w/updates on your sitch and ask questions there, too

Custody mediation may not be too bad - however I put in my parenting plan that DD not be exposed to OW for 6 months. Drac will try to throw that out. I am insisting on it.

There should be no problem if he is truly not seeing her, right?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am going to TRY to work a bit. Then am going to spend 30 min or so preparing for my appt!

Thx again all!

is it time yet?

are we there yet?
are we there yet?
are we there yet?

impatient....

Ok, I just finished up a few minutes ago. Need to do some work stuf and then will update!

Patience, pls!

I have to type on my computer, email to the Blackberry, copy and paste. The company bocked my computer from MB!!

aaaarrrgggggh!

Ok, first let me tell you something you ALL need to know. He said it multiple times when we talked about the Forum.

"It is an Amazing Community of AMAZING people!"

Of course, I agreed wholeheartedly! I told him at the beginning and the end of our call. It is SO true, that the support I have gotten and continue to get here has been a Life Saver for me!

Ok, so after the initial history, where are we now, some details of how we arrived here, Steve helped me boil it down to this.

WHY does Drac want a D? (or anyone for that matter)

Because he sees the situation as HOPELESS. He does not believe that there is a way to stay married to me and BE HAPPY.

Steve asked me, "So, how do we change that?"

I replied, ":That's what I'm why I am talking to YOU. I'm waiting for YOU to tell ME!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We need to get Drac around to Ideas that he hasn't considered before. To get him to believe that there IS a way to change his feelings, even when he can't imagine that they can.

His explanation of this makes perfect sense. This is the Inverse of the reason that people get married. When we marry, we do so because we can't imagine our feelings of love for our spouse EVER changing. If you try to tell newlyweds that they won't always feel the way they do,,,,,, they will argue forever that it won't EVER change. That made sense to me.

Drac is not going to want to turn this around because it is the RIGHT thing to do. He'll only be open to it if he BELIEVES he will be HAPPY. He is in a "self serving" mode. I need to get him to just agree to LISTEN. Then help him believe he can be HAPPY. I have to appeal to his HAPPINESS FACTOR.

So, we need to lay out a logic line. Present the theory, a step by step line of logic of where we were, where we are, and if/how we can change where we are today.

BC - we talked about the letter he suggested to you and that you wrote to you WW. Same premise, but something that I am going to talk to Drac about. The idea being getting him to talk to Steve. It will be phrased in the form of asking about HIS ideal scenario, HIS happiness and asking for Drac's help.

What would be Drac's IDEAL scenario of happiness,,,,,,,,,,,, In THEORY ONLY - - what if it could include being in LOVE with the mother of his daughter. IF that were possible,,,, and I'm not saying it is going to happen,,, but IF it were possible, wouldn't that be the greatest for YOU, Drac?

Drac, I need your help. You see I believe that both of us can be HAPPY in this marriage. I understand that you do not believe that. I've found an intriguing idea that says that there might a way for us to be happy.

You see, I am having a hard time following your request for divorce, when I think there's a way to have a better, HAPPY marriage. I just can't seem to get around this and agree with the divorce. All I am asking is that you HEAR about the idea. It is an interesting perspective that looks at how we got here and has options we haven't considered before. There are options to get out of where we are now and for us to both be HAPPY.

I really need a better understanding of why you, Drac, don't see a possibility of rebuilding our marriage. I need to get unstuck from where I am, and if you would talk to Steve, it would really help me understand.

This isn't about shoving anything down your throat or getting you to agree to anything you don't want. Not at all. Steve doesn't call himself PRO marriage, because that does not describe what he's about. This would be merely a discussion about ideas. You can ask questions, tell him why it won't work for us, explain to him why the D makes better sense, and generally poke holes in the entire thing. If you could help me out by talking to him, I think it will help me to get unstuck.

So,,, that's the plan. There is no offer to come home at this time. That can't be done unless there is confirmation of NC.
No introduction of MB at all. Perhaps AFTER he talks to Steve.

For the mediation, stick to my plan. Insist on NC for DD and OW in the agreement. That really is the only potential for true conflict in the agreement.

We talked about my meds, my support systems, he asked me if my support IRL think I'm crazy!! I told him I don't share all of this with everyone, because YES, they would think I am crazy! He asked about my energy, my strength, how I feel about the continued SF with Drac. So sticking Plan A and trying to get Drac on board with the MB idea,,,, expand his mind and consider not going with the big D.

He said he thinks I'm sounding strong, and that I am doing really well right now. Of course, what else is he going to say? "Bugs, you are a mess?!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, though, it was very good.

So, do I think it will work? I don't know, that depends on Drac. IF Drac will talk to Steve, I ABSOLUTELY believe it will work.

Next question - - WHEN to have this discussion with Drac????????????

My thought right this minute is after the custody mediation, if it goes well. BUT,,,, it might not go well and that would NOT be the time to have this discussion. So, will have to ponder this a bit more.

Ok - - - Inquiring minds,,,, Any questions? Comments? Come on you Amazing People? Let me hear from you!

I think sooner than the custody hearing.

In fact - I would get on Steve's calendar RIGHT NOW.
Have a date and time set; instead of waiting for WH's buy in. Then have the discussion -- ask him to talk to Steve on Tueday at 10AM (or whatever...) Cuz you know how long you have to wait to get scheduled -- you don't want WH agreeing and then having to wait a week....

And I also agree with him NOT coming home yet. Like I said a few posts ago, he is still very wayward thinking....

Oooo..I LOVE THIS.."THE MOTHER OF HIS DAUGHTER"..makes you different than anyone else in the world..that's what the OW in my situation LOATHED..that I was the "MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN"...



Love, love, love this, too..how he puts this.....



Yep...my H really, really LIKED Steve's PERSPECTIVE....

I AGREE WITH LEXX...this should be done ASAP..like YESTERDAY...schedule the appt. for your H...

"Drac..I want you to do me this one favor"..(chest out, blinking eyelashes, GLOSS ON LIPS)..tell him the NUMBER AND TIME TO CALL...

ETA: Maybe you can reschedule the mediation....

Ok, I need to breathe here!

Deep cleansing breaths, while fortifying my Goddess attitude!

Ok. Now, have to think about Drac's schedule and what time would work best.

Then, part 2. When will I be able to talk to Drac? I'd do it tonight, but he'll be out. I may call and see what the timeing is looking like for their bday dinner tonight.

we need time alone for this and I don't want to rush it.

Also would prefer it where it is at FIL's house, so he can not just say No and then leave.

So, am going to practice the speech. Practice really worked well when I first started my plan A mantra!

By the way, Steve said my line of 'I don't do divorce was good!'

hI, i AGREE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER BUT i THINK THAT YOU NEED TO COLLECT YOURSELF...

(sorry about the caps, working)

you are like bouncing off the walls....calm yourself...

LMao...like you said breathe!!!

Perhaps not tonight!

Wow, sounds exactly like the first conversation I had with Steve.

Did he give you the analogy of taking your child to the doctor, and the one doctor could possibly save his arm?

Same conversation I had with my WW. But she wants her own favor first, i.e. she gets the kids. So I don't want to bring bad news - just be aware that a WS won't necessarily respond favorably.

I hope Drac responds for you.

Mimi...trying to remember what I said to get my H to talk to Steve...I remember being SHOCKED that he agreed to do it...I did all of the SCHEDULING, etc...said CALL at X TIME...

Since he's in a selfish WH mode..make it about HIM...about HIS HAPPINESS...not about RECONCILING....."THIS GUY has HELPED lots of men like YOU...MEN who haven't been helped in other forms of counseling...won't hurt to give it a try, will it?"....