this is a victim letter "OH woe is me"

(please refer to my veddy veddy OLD "I am not a victim" post recently drug out of the basement by Arkie^^up carrots)

Believer ... he never "got it" ... still hasn't ... but where there is life, there's hope

Pep

Schoolbus...can I hijack you to help me. I am having a very difficult time expressing myself and the whole of my problem. I started to read the long porn thread from about a week or two ago. Some of made me furious, but I saw a tidbit of your sich on there and I believe you will understand what I am trying to say.

I am limited on time to be able to post so alot of times I miss the oppurtunity to participate in a discussion. Not to mention the interuptions at my job are very frequent and we get busy. Oh, and not to mention my tremendous inadequacy with words...hehe.

If you have time will you check a couple of my posts?

Thank you.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3173406

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=2#Post3175113

Pep - I know, and everyone told me at the time (Remember??) But I am just fascinated by SB's field. In fact, I even did some reading on the net about it last night. It is SOOO interesting.

One thing is the blame - when I threw him out (on D-day, when he stayed out all night with OW) it was the beginning of the end- how foggy.

Also I now notice Janice, Janice, Janice. Seems like Believer wasn't on his mind too much. LOL!!!!

It's also interesting to me because I told Silent Lucidity that I had a whole pile of letters just like hers. Now that I've been reading SB (and the old letters), and comparing them to SL's letter - they are as different as night and day. I feel a little bad for warning SL to be careful!!!! But not that bad........her sit is looking promising.

Believer

SL should be careful
the warning was valid

a letter does not make a turn-around ... more like he's put on his turn signal & he's about to make the turn

KWIM?

Pep

Believer

your H is what is known as a LOW BOTTOM drunk

Pep

I know, Pep, and too bad for him.

But I'm loving this topic. Hope that SB can tell us about some good books on it. I know that you don't learn this stuff overnight.

This was my point over on Sis' thread.

Do you even listen or give any credence to the WORDS of a DRUNK while actively DRINKING?

It's different when the ALCOHOLIC/ADDICT has made the step of saying "I know I have a problem"...like SL'S H...

There was such a turn around with my H when accepted and got the point that he was ADDICTED TO THE OW..before that time he was focusing on BEING HAPPY...BEING FREE TO BE WITH HIS SOULMATE...CONSUMED WITH MAINTAINING HIS HIGH ON HER..YUCK...

Believer

did OW and her H separate?
I thought I saw that somewhere... was I dreaming?

Pep

Pep:

Did you see my question? I think we were posting at the same time...

yes

"Do you even listen or give any credence to the WORDS of a DRUNK while actively DRINKING?"

immediately my mind went to Mel Gibson

LOL

Pep

Right, I agree with Pep, I'm not rushing in, I'm positioning things so that we can look at them and begin to put the puzzle together. I'm ready for him to SHOW me.

Believer, you are right to tell me to be cautious. I feel like the baby steps are going to work for us. I am not afraid, but I am cautious. H seems READY, primed. I am ready, and I'm not holding back, but I RUSHED in before, and fell flat. I need to see ACTIONS from him toward recovery, like reading the website or calling the counseling center, or even having a conversation about MB Basic concepts. Showing an interest, and a WANT toward recovery...

Yep, Pep - her husband divorced OW. I divorced WH.

SL - Hang in there and rest up for recovery. I've heard it's even harder.

Believer, that's what I've heard too. I'm okay with that.

believer,

The other telling thing in his letter are all of the "buts". He essentially negates the preceeding concession every single time - he gives you one thing, then takes it away by saying, "but...".

SB

growing hope,

If it's advice with the porn thing, here's what I had to do. I told my FWH that I could not stay in a relationship as second to ANYTHING. He absolutely must stop all porn.

He has.

And our sex life improved.

I am meeting his needs (well, he has had cancer, so there is some issue here, but still, I meet his needs and vice-versa).

But, if you are talking about communication style, I'm your person.

I looked at your posts. I would advise just one change: don't beat around the bush.

You tend to avoid coming right out and saying, directly, what you want to say. You say a lot, but then again, there's not much content in your messages that helps a person REALLY know what you want to say, from your heart. I sense you are afraid of hurting his feelings? Or is it that the topic is difficult to discuss?

Either way, you need to be extremely direct with the discussion with him. First off, it makes the topic MUCH easier to discuss! Use direct and proper language about the body parts, your feelings, and what you want. Talk directly to him about the porn, how it makes you feel, and what you want to happen with it.


Also, are you really sitting on the fence with regard to a divorce, or am I correct in thinking that you really WANT a divorce but just don't want to be judged by others in your life if you leave this marriage? Pardon the question - I don't mean to offend. Sometimes I read things under what people write.



SB

This is the first thing H wrote to me after D day ... he was in another city filming .. I told him to S T A Y there and N O T to return home.

Schoolbus ... lemme know what you think ... MY take on it at the time was 100% ~~~> "this is bullcrap" ... but I was full of rage at the time... January 1996
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>wife<
I can't seem to find the words - but here I am trying anyway. I love you ! And I know that I can never say it enough - I do love you.

I know that you probably think that everything here in >city< is easy for me - but you are wrong. It is far from easy. All I do from day to day is get through and figure out how I can start over with you.

Again I say to you that everything has a different look to it. My whole understanding of things is completely different than what it has been for a very long time. And that all starts and ends with you. I have to say again how sorry I am for ever saying those horrible words to you. They were really about me and how I have been feeling about me for a long while. I know that may never take away your pain - but it's a start.

I want to take these new eyes of mine and find you in them. I want to see what makes you click and what makes you move. Thank you so much for sharing that book >name of book< with me. It has given me a new understanding of you and what is inside you. It has also been a good thing for me to read.

I look forward to the tape you made for me as I look forward to that Sunday that I can come for a visit.

I miss you >wife<
more than I can say - but I am going to try and continue to try.

I have made up my mind - and I am not going to waver. I want you - and I am going to show you- in time
>husband<

Pep,

The opening sort of hedges his bets. The phrase "I DO love you" is meant to reassure you that he loves you, but also has an underlying note that there is a still a problem there, something he still wants to talk about. Something that he isn't willing to go into right now, but that remains and impedes a full-bore, I'm coming home and things will be peachy-keen and roses because I have this feeling worked out in my heart kind of message.

He even conveys it in a way, saying he is "trying to figure out" how to start over with you. Your take on it may have been that you had already discussed how to restart, but his actions hadn't gone the right direction - so you got angry? I can see why, if that is the case.

He does want to start over with you, but wants an acknowlegement from you that it has also been hard for him, too. He also apologizes in a unique way - by stating that his transgressions to you were really all about himself. Interesting insight here, and I wonder if he really fully understood it at the time, or if he was saying that because cognitively he knew it but needed the "talk" to lead him there (we do this sometimes without knowing we do it). I would love to hear his feedback on this one....interesting for my further understanding of cognition-communication...purely selfish of me! Sometimes we don't really "know" something until we say it.

He also reveals that he is still somewhat confused. The paragraph about his trying to find you all over again, and the book helping him, that still shows his being somewhat lost. I don't know if he is still searching, or if this is trying to convey to you that he feels lost and wants you to understand that he knows that the "found" end of the lost-and-found is you. Maybe this is a little of both, where he is testing the waters for himself and you. I would have to know the context of the relationship at the time more to tell for sure.

The last line is there to tell you that he intends to be around over a long period of time, and that he intends to keep trying to show you his changes. And he understands that you are not likely to accept it in a heartbeat, that it may take you a long time to believe it, and he knows that - but he tells you his intention to invest time to do it. But....

I was struck by his choice of the word "try". A little hedging there too. But, given that he is male, they tend toward more broad semantic fields, so this could be more committal than if a woman were to use it. It may be that when you read it, you saw "try" and thought, "well, if you really meant this, you would have said, 'I am going to DO this' not just TRY." Also might explain your reaction.

My question is, had he SAID things like this before, and then acted otherwise? If so, then your anger would be even more justified, because this letter would be just a written version of "more of the same".


But overall, the sense is that he is remorseful, but not sure how you are going to react. A bit of defense is there in the letter - and of course, given that it followed d-day, he was probably bracing for the war.
SB

I'd say you are pretty spot on actually

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

his letter to me is stuck inside my recovery journal with MY notes commenting on his letter .. I was NOT kind <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> in fact, I pretty much tore him a new one ! ... but those words never went beyond my journal, thankfully

but
that was then
this is now

funny what 11 years does, isn't it?

Pep

Wow, you continue to amaze me, SB. I would have the same take on "try". To me, you DO things, not try.

It would be interesting to get some male input. Maybe Pep can put "Getting all the sex you want" in the title.

I would have said he was pretty genuine myself.