DIG:

The more you hang around, the more they show up.

And remember, you didn't get here overnight, it took you over ten years.

Maybe your H needs a 2x4 upside the head, to really "get it" (I did)

Or, remember that the process is to work on you. We can help with that.

And another thing to remember, there are only a couple of husband and wife teams that post around here.

So, do not think your H is odd because he isn't here. Mrs LG has never been on the discussion board as near as I can tell.

She found the website first, but never came over here.

Greater understanding in yourself will result in changes that your husband will recognize and hopefully, hopefully, want to emulate.

Or, we go to more drastic measures.

LG

Ok I have to know based on what I wrote here so far ( believe me there is more reguarding my history.) What do you say is going on between my H and I? Do we seem atypical? I hate that he has PA behavior. I know I can't change that and I know that for whatever reason he is afraid to make himself vunerable to me and in being afraid to do that kills intimacy and if we can't have intimacy then howcan we have a relationship?

P.S. Head read to the kids tonight and I am very happy that he did but now I think he is punishing me because he won't talk to me. How do I handle this?

D.I.G.

OMG I just read this post and I almost cried. It is almost exactly how I feel. I can not believe how much it touched me. It's eerie how we as people can be so alike and so different all at the same time.

I asked my H to read this post as well and I ask him to tell me what he thought about it and he said that it sounds like what I say to him all the time. I told him it's almost exactly how I felt. That it touched me. I didn't mean for him to take it personally that I wanted him to read it so he could get a better understaning of how I felt but all he saw is that I am showing him yet again how he is not living up to my standards. I don't know how to get him to see that everything is not about him. I want him to stop taking everything personally.


I've thought a lot about how to reply to your email. The hardest thing for me is that because I am in withdrawal thinking about and discussing my situation takes a lot of work and is very emotionally draining. Obviously I can only speak from my own experience, and hope that perhaps you can see your wife somewhere in what I say. I suppose the degree to which we are similar may depend on our EN (mine happen to be affirmation and quality time/conversation).

I know that my husband wants reassurance, he has asked for for it. I have recognized and admitted to him that I just may not be able to give him what he needs right now. I have no emotion to draw from in order to fill his needs, it just isn't there yet. I have found that as I start to move further out of withdrawal, or try to present myself as if I AM out of it, my H's hope can or does push me back in. Strange phenomenon, I know. I suppose when I see his hopeful/positive attitude it makes me feel as though he thinks the problems are virtually fixed! I know that I am nowhere close to being fixed. I fear that admitting that I'd like to try puts me at risk of just stepping right back in to the same old situation. H tells me he is different - he understands himself and his role in damaging the relationship, he has committed to stopping those damaging behaviors. The problem is, words are great, but it's going to take seeing and experiencing the changes for myself for me to really believe. Also, I recognize that it won't be easy for ME to change either. We have spent 12 years building dysfunctional patterns of communicating with eachother. It will be challenging not to fall into those patterns once again. I don't like confrontation. I have attempted to avoid confrontation by doing everything I could think of to be the wife that my husband wanted me to be. Because of that, whenever he expressed disatisfaction over what I had or hadn't done, I was hurt on many levels. First of all, it made me feel that while I worked so hard to be content with who my husband is, he wasn't willing to repay that courtesy. I have felt that my love for him was unconditional, but his love for me was conditional (perception here, not necessarily reality). I would ask myself "Why is it that I just can't be good enough for him?" The next hurt stems from the first one, with all the energy that I expended on trying to be all and do all, I felt stressed by the burden of trying to add one more log to the teetering pile I was already carrying. I was able to keep adding for a long time, but there came a time that I just couldn't take the thought of having to carry one more log. It hurt to think that he would ask it of me. The final hurt (and perhaps the most important one for me) is that it is direct opposition to my highest EN. I require affirmation, when disappointment or frustration is expressed by my H it is negative affirmation. It says "You are not good enough," "You are a failure," "you are lacking." I recognize that I can't base my worth on the way others view me, but unfortunately I am very affected by it, especially from those who should love and accept me the most. It is something I need to work on. When my H left, the very first thing I did was drop every single log I had been toting around, I am struggling with whether I will have the energy to pick any of them back up again. Another change that will need to be made is in how H expresses his frustration and needs. When expressed in appropriate ways they should not be damaging to my self-worth.

Quote:
Tell me more about what a great man/support would look/feel like to you?



Basically this is what I need in the short term. I need to see that when I don't cook dinner, allow the house to be a mess, have piles of dirty laundry, sit around in my sweats all day, etc. that my husband does not walk around in tense silence with tight lips. He does not criticize me for not completing a check list of responsibilities and base his happiness on whether or not I am able to accomplish certain things during the course of the day. It isn't that he necessarily has all of these expectations for me. It is that I have felt that if I did not meet up to the image of an ideal wife in every way, I would not be loved. There have been incidents in our marriage that have validated that fear for me. I need to see and know without any doubt, that he will still love me without ANY of that. That it is ME that he loves, not the services that I provide. Those of course are only the physical things. I also need to see that my H can still love me now when I feel unable to meet his emotional needs. That he doesn't just turn away and move on. I need to feel that he loves and accepts me where I am right now. That for a time he is willing to give without any expectation of receiving in return. Once I can really believe those things are true, then I can act based on my own values and desires. I like to have a clean house, I am a fairly good cook, I honestly don't care that much for doing laundry but I do it because it needs to be done. But I need to know that as I am fulfilling those tasks I am not doing it out of fear of disappointing someone else or expectations on the part of another. It must be because I recognize the value in completing it, and I am choosing to do it. The same goes for doing things that meet my H's EN. I don't want to do them if they feel like demands or requirements. If I am only meeting a demand, what is the real value in that? Acting under coercion does not show love, it only shows submission. Ultimately those actions will ring hollow not only to the giver but to the receiver as well. The result is a shell of a marriage. Actions alone do not bring happiness, it is the emotion behind the action that determines the result. If we act out of love when fulfilling our spouse's EN, they will feel loved. When we act with reluctance or under pressure, it breeds resentment in the giver and frustration in the receiver. We want the other person to "want" to fulfill our needs, not just go through the motions. In one of his posts comparing his wife's EN of domestic support and his EN of SF Artiste says

Quote:
And again, it's not like dishes where if ya don't want to do em you still do but it's not a big deal. If a person doesn't want to have sex it IS a big deal. I can't think of anything more replulsive to me than having sex with an unwilling partner. An unenthusiastic partner is almost as bad.


Though I completely understand what he is trying to say, I actually think both of the situations are the same. If a husband hates to do the dishes, doesn't really WANT to do the dishes but goes ahead and does them because he knows it will make his wife happy, the wife can feel the difference. She wants him to want to do the dishes, not merely be willing to do the dishes! Of course, being willing is a good start... Maybe how I'm saying it doesn't really make sense. The effect is a result of the emotion behind the action. We all want our partners to be enthusiatic about fulfilling our needs.

Basically I guess my advice to you would be, love your wife where she is. Give selflessly without expectation of receiving anything in return. She has felt your demands and your selfishness, she now needs to feel your lack of demands and your selflessness. Obviously, you couldn't remain forever in that state, eventually if she decides to be present again in the relationship, you both need to be willing to work out your differences in healthy ways - POJA. But for the moment, she will never come back unless you are willing to keep yourself in the state of intimacy even when it is the last place her actions will make you want to be. I know it is a lot to ask, but if you can do it, it just may work.

Again, I feel like my thoughts are so disjointed that I'm not sure they will be helpful, but I hope you can see through my fog to the meaning behind it.

--------------------
No More

Ok here is an update. I mentioned before that I had told my husband that if things between us were not better by the time the kids got out at the end of the school year that I was leaving. Well because I told him that he keeps asking me if I have my bags packed. The first time he asked I didn't really reply. The second time I asked him why he keeps asking me that, the third time I told him that when I said that I didn't want him to think that just because I said that doesn't mean that I am not going to all that I can to make our relationship work. I said haven't you noticed that I have been doing all the things that make you happy and trying really hard not to do any of the things that make you unhappy. I also stated that I was not doing just to get him to do the things for me that make me happy but because when I don't meet his needs I know he feels the same way I do when I go without getting my needs met. It hurts and now I realize that I was hurting him that I would do almost anything to keep him from feeling the way I have been feeling because I love him that much. I told him that I know I hurt him by acting to independently, by minimalizing his feelings, not listening better, by laughing at his quirks, and by trying to demand that he meet my needs while I was doing all of these things to hurt him instead of trying to meet his was just wrong and selfish of me. I told him I was sorry and asked him to forgive me and told him that he deserves better than that. I told him that I think he is a great person and husband considering that I was neglecting him all this time.

I also told him that I want him to own his shortcomings and stop trying to blame all the problems we are having on me and that it's ok to make mistakes. I don't want him to be perfect I just want him to be comfortable being who he is. I told him that admitting he is not perfect is not a bad thing it just makes him realize he is human.


After things between us have been really great and we feel connected again. I just thank God that he has been more patient with putting up with my crap than I have with him. I am truly blessed. I can't remember who had this in there sig line but it went something like this" A great woman builds a great life, and a foolish woman tears it down with her own two hands." I knowI may have misquoted it but I know it touched me and I don't want to be a fool and tear down everything I built up being blind. We still haven't done the HNHN but I will see if we can do some of the workbook ex. out of the Getting the love you want workbook. Wish us luck and pray for us. BFN

MB

Ok everyone I have an update. I have to say that I don't know what else if anything I should do. I had been doing all the things he asked of me and trying hard not to LB and yet he still had the nerve to ask me what have I done for him when I told him I would like him to tell me he loves me everyday and that he appreciate all of the things I do around here and to read to our kids. I went IC and she told me that I shouldn't take what he does or not do personally. She said because he has a fear of intimatcy that he would have done this in any relationship he had. She also told me that the request I have made of him are scary and hard for him to do because of his fear of rejection. He thinks no matter what he does it will not be good enough so he tries nothing. She also told me when he did the Q'Aires that he probably just anwsered untruthfully to just get me to leave him alone. I have read that PA people make it hard for people to love them and I find that to be true. I don't know what else to do. He asked me to write down the things I need from him to feel loved by him and I did it sunday and that was the last time he even attempted to do any of the things. My C told me I have to learn how to communicate without shaming or blaming. I have to learn how to do that but I don't know how to get him to make himself available emotionally to me and the kids. He thinks by him sitting on the couch with the kids while he is playing on the computer or watching TV that he is spending quality time with the kids and he shouldn't have to read to them. I need advice and I am feeling so lost don't know what to do. Can anyone advice. I can't see my C again until April. I feel like our whole relationship has been a lie. I don't know if he was ever hnest with me. He also just told me he want's me to lose some weight. I have asked him time and time again if he had problems with my weight because it has been up and down and all this time he told me no, and then he tells me this. Everytime he promised to do something I asked of him and he would say yes with no intention of doing it I feel like he was lying just to get me to leave him alone. How can we have a relationship or anything else like this? I am so tired of the passive aggressive behavior and him being emotionally unavailiable to me and the kids. Someone anyone please help me.

Does this lack of response mean there is no hope for my sitch?

I am just so frustrated. Today is my oldest DD B-day and until just now when I asked my H has not even made any attempt to tell her happy B-day. He has been at work since 9:30 all this week he has been avoiding going until today and of course on her b-day he finally goes in and then has to stay late. Go figure. They came home early on weds and he said that he was going to stay out when he left so he wouldn't have to deal with the 2 oldest DD's the same ones he refueses to deal with. Yesterday our second DD was writing lines because she got in trouble three days this week and she wasn't finished when I left to go make groceries so I left her here with him and he punished me for that. One time he was going to pick some things from the store and they asked if they could go with him and I told them to ask him and he says after they went to bed I forced them to go with him so I could have time to myself. Mind you I had the two babies. I am so tired I am lost I just feel like I am fighting a losing battle. If he doesn't even admit he has a problem how can he even address it or work on it. I guess even if I don't get one response wrtiting this makes me feel better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

I'm reading the thread, hang on a minute.

SB

It sure sounds like you are very overwhelmed. I think I would start by stating good care of MYSELF. You have a lot of little ones depending on you.

One thing that might help is joining some kind of women's support group. It doesn't sound like hubby is very supportive right now, and you need to get that from somewhere.

Also I would take a little break from trying to fix the marriage and just change the things that you can change. Start doing some things that will make you feel good about yourself, and treating yourself well.

As for DD's BD, do the best you can do, WITHOUT relying on hubby. The more you expect of him, the less he is going to do.

DIG,

Wow. I have a list for you. I want you to know I look at what YOU write, and go from there. Nothing is personal, nor intended to offend. I hope it helps give you direction.

1. Stop looking for the things he isn't doing for you, and instead thinking about some/most of them in terms of whether or not they are important enough to risk your marriage about. You tend to look for details of things he does not do, and they seem to have added up. Like, he doesn't get you flowers, doesn't do the birthday thing, etc. But, lots of guys don't buy flowers often, and most guys forget the birthday stuff. It's the way they are. They are guys, they are NOT WOMEN. I recommend backing off of some things and evaluating them in terms of their importance overall, how they relate in terms of the male/female thing (this really means something, like it or not), and holding on for bit on the EN aspect here. While it might add up over time for the EN, one thing does not entitle you to lose it and LB over a small item not meeting the mark.

2. I agree with backing off on relying on him for a lot for things with the kids. Seems like he thinks he cannot please you, however. Evaluate what you are saying to him about how he interacts with the kids. Find more ways to praise what he is doing RIGHT, and shut off the valve that tells him what he is doing wrong.

3. I get his point on not doing anything, for fear whatever he does won't please you. Here's why: You state that you believe that he is only doing things for a short time, and that he will quit as soon as he thinks things cool down.

Have you considered that he feels the same way about YOU?

Perhaps he watches what you are doing, and his actions mirror your own. If YOU don't stop doing the right thing, he won't stop.

4. I don't think he is being passive-aggressive about the weight loss issue at all. I think he has probably told you exactly what you have wanted to hear AT THE MOMENT in order to avoid LB's from you, that's all. He tells you from time to time that he does want you to lose weight, when he believes that you are in the right frame of mind to hear it. When he thinks you will LB, he goes along with what he thinks you can handle at that particular moment. I think he is trying to protect your feelings, nothing more than that. But in reality, his desire is that he wants you to look good.

5. Which brings us to the insecurity you have. How much of the problem really revolves around your own sense of not being beautiful due to your body image? How much of your interest in OM started because he made you feel good about how you looked, and this improved your body image? So much of what you write has been about your looks, your sense of sexuality and attractiveness, your desire to be attractive, your need for reinforcement that you are attractive. You need to explore this area and bolster it within yourself.


6. Building the relationship cannot start with you threatening to leave.

7. If he will not read on his own, put the kids to bed, sit down next to him on the couch with the book, turn off the TV, and say, "After we read for 15 minutes together, let's make out and have sex. I'm wearing the red thong." He will read with you.

8. Make it a point to write down ONE thing he did right every day - and give it to him. If you get the chance, give it to him IN FRONT OF SOMEONE ELSE.

9. NEVER AGAIN ARE YOU TO FLIRT WITH ANOTHER MAN IN FRONT OF HIM. You basically emasculated him. Don't ever do it again. And YES, you did do something wrong. This was one of the things you did wrong, and you should immediately apologize to him for doing this, if you apologize for nothing else.

10. Put a plan in place for yourself for which you will avoid being in situations that involve the possibility of becoming involved with another OM. This includes close friendships with males, private conversations without your H's knowledge, lunches/meetings etc. that your H is not aware of, or any other situations that might lead to inappropriately close interactions with other men. You are foggy in your thinking, and not trustworthy at this point.

11. Focus on what YOU can do to improve your marriage. You cannot control what your husband does or does not do.

Hope this helps. I know it's hard to take this kind of criticism, but if you focus, you can make the lives of your children happier than yours was.

SB

DIG - whats with the name change? Something happen?

Have you written out your concerns to your H? Black and white on paper infront of him?

Ok SB I have to say I agree with you on most of what you said but as far as me being foggy I am not. Unless you consider being tired and scared foggy. I know that I am not my mother and my husband is not my dad but I am scared to death to spend the next 30 years of my life being punished for stuff my husband feels like I am doing wrong but doesn't even think enough of me to tell me so I can try and correct the behavior. After spending 30 years in a marriage with my dad and having hardly any relationship what so ever my dad told my mom that he wants a D. I can't imagine being unhappy that long and then my H telling me he has had enough.

As far as the weight issues he doesn't think I am unattractive or so he says he said he is worried about my health. I find that really strang because he doesn't even go to the Dr to take care of himself. If I leave my H it won't be because I am looking to be in another R it's because I am tired of being taken for granted and ignored.

M2L I changed my name to D.I.G. because I am desperate in GA. I have wrote how I felt using I statements and he never said anything about it until I asked if he got it and he said yes and that was it.

Also I try to do things to take care of myself. I go and work out @ 5:00a.m. because it's the only time I can go without him punishing me. If I go while the kids are awake and he has to watch them he withdraws.

Don't get me wrong I love my H with all my heart. I think he is a wonderful provider, and a good H in all aspects but this one with being unavailiable but I grew up in a house where I was emotionally abandon and whenever I told my FOO I needed to hear I love you I felt ignored because they never did and I see that same dynamic going on with my H and I feel just as bad now as I did then. I don't know how much more I can take.

Also after reading this article and many just like it I felt like there is no hope unless he gets IC. So until then I feel like I am fighting a losing battle.

What's Up with the Passive Aggressive Man?
Recognizing Emotional Manipulation
By Cathy Meyer

The man with passive aggressive behavior has to have someone to be the object of his covert hostility. He needs a woman whose expectations and demands he can resist as he plays out the dance he learned from in childhood. He can never be angry or show anger but he will stick it to her in under-handed ways. He chooses a woman who will agree to be on the receiving end of his disowned anger. She, of course, has no idea she has agreed to this until it is too late to turn back. He will resist giving her what she wants and needs which will set up a pattern of frustration in her and she will end up expressing the anger that he is unable to.

The biggest frustration in being with a passive aggressive man is that he never follows through on agreements and promises he has made. He will dodge responsibility for anything in the relationship while, at the same time make it look as if he is pulling his own weight and is a very loving partner. The sad thing is, a woman can be made to believe that she is loved and adored by a man who is completely unable to form an emotional connection with anyone. He ignores problems in the relationship, sees things through his own skewed sense of reality and if forced to deal with the problems will completely withdraw from the relationship. He will deny evidence of wrong doing, distort what you know to be real to fit his own agenda, minimize or lie so that his version of what is real seems more logical.

He communicates in a vague way in an attempt to sandbag his partner. He is inconsistent and ambiguous. He will say one thing and do another and then deny ever saying the first thing. He doesn't communicate his needs and wishes in a clear way, expecting his partner to read his mind and meet his needs. After all, if she truly loved him she would just naturally know what he needs wouldn't she? He will always withhold information about how he feels or what he has been up to and you can bet he has a hidden agenda for doing so. He has a fragile ego and can't take the slightest criticism and will turn it back around on his partner and attempt to make her look like the person at fault.

If you confront him about his behavior he will sulk and use silence or walk completely way leaving you to deal with the problem alone. Don't ever expect him to live up to his promises, obligations and responsibilities as far as the relationship or you are concerned. Watch out though if he thinks you have done something to him though. He will dole out punishment that outweighs the crime and you will feel as if you have been hit in the heart by a 2 x 4. He will become excessive in his need to get back at you and can obsess on it until he feels that the person who has done him wrong has been dealt with properly.

He has a genuine desire to connect with you emotionally but his fear of just such a connection causes me to be obstructive and engage in self-defeating habits. He will be very covert in his actions and it will only move him further and further from his desired relationship with his partner. A passive aggressive man will pull the rug out from under your life and as you lay with your head spinning he will deny any accusations of anger you make toward him and turn them all back on you. He is a genius when it comes to appearing innocent and only having good intentions and he does this in an attempt to have you believe that he is only acting with your best interest in mind.

He will NEVER admit to any wrongdoing, will make subtle ambiguous statements then deny altogether any hurtful intent. He will also DO little subtle hurtful things like being late for a dinner date or forgetting your birthday, then deny any harmful intent, accusing the other person of being overly sensitive. His game is to "get back" at someone he feels has wronged him by refusing any kind of cooperation with them. He will feign ignorance when confronted and will appear to be very hurt that you could think he would purposefully or intentionally do anything hurtful.

The passive aggressive man never looks internally and examines his role in a problem. He has to externalize it and blame others for having shortcomings. He lives in denial of his self-destructive behavior, the consequences of that behavior and the choices he has made that causes all his pain. He will turn his focus toward others and all the wrongs they have done to him. He feels immense anger and aggression because, in his mind, everyone else is crazy. All this aggression and anger is expressed indirectly and covertly and, at the great emotional harm of anyone attached to him.

The passive aggressive man shows little consideration of the time, feelings, standards or needs of others unless it fits his agenda to do so. To him you are an object to be used as a means to an end. Your only value is to feed his own emotional needs. He will stand in the way of you getting what you need and will then ignore or minimize your hurt feelings and anger. He has no idea how to compromise in a relationship and when faced with the demand that he make a compromise you will get the silent treatment.

He may be a workaholic, a womanizer, hooked on TV, caught in addictions or self-involved in getting his own needs met and not facing his own fears. He is angry where he shouldn't be and not angry where he should be. He gives away his personal power when he doesn't trust his feelings, he manipulates people with kindness, he makes excuses for those who deserve no excuses, and he displaces his angry feelings onto those who have done nothing to hurt him. He will regard a well-intended person with contempt based on his displaced anger and react in self-defeating ways.

He is confused and can't understand why women get so angry with him. He feels others demand too much of him so resists in overt and subtle ways and feels deprived if he must give in to others. The man who copes with conflict by not being there has strong conflict over becoming dependent on someone else. He wants the attention and attachment that comes with loving someone but fears losing his independence to his partner. He absolutely can't be with anyone emotionally. He wants love and attention but avoids it because he fears it will destroy him.

The man with passive aggressive actions is a master manipulator when it comes to getting his partner to doubt herself and feel guilty for questioning or confronting him. He very talented at getting her to fall for his apologies, accept his excuses and focus on his charm rather than deal with the issue directly. He blames her for creating the problem and keeps her focused on her anger rather than his own ineptitude. He keeps his partner held hostage by the hope that he will change. He may give into her and clean up his act after a blow up for several weeks, but then it's back to business as usual.

Is there hope for change when dealing with a passive aggressive man? Only if he is willing to acknowledge his own shortcomings and contributions to the problems that exist in his relationships. Facing old wounds, looking internally instead of externally to find the cause of problems in his life will help him form deeper emotional bonds with a higher sense of emotional safety for himself.

Also I have said before I am doing the things he asked of me and not LBing but he has not and probably won't tell me what he needs from me to feel love because he is afraid of Intimatcy. What else can I do? I feel like he is trying to string me along. He wants me to be apart of his life but he is afraid to let his guard down and tust me because he doesn't want to get hurt. I am at a lost.

Hey Mary!

Boy, when Schoolbus gets done posting, there's nothing left to say. LOL

Fantastic post, SB!



You are giving to get, Mary.

This type of giving will ALWAYS bring disappointment!

Give b/c you want to be a giving person. A more loving person. Being these things will FILL your LB to over flowing.




Really? How do you know that he thinks he's spending quality time this way?

Maybe he's just trying to unwind and relax w/ his family.



Are you lost? Have you lost yourself? Do you know how to make yourself happy?



Why are you choosing to believe this? How does it help you or your marriage?



You're DJIng, Mary.

Stating that he was lying. Assuming to know what his intentions were.

All you can do is ASK him for what you'd like. But, you do more than that...you EXPECT him to give it to you.

Drop your expectations and work on making yourself happy.



It's up to you.

You can choose to focus on what he doesn't do, or choose to focus on all the ways he shows you he loves you everyday.



How did he punish you?



Why do you let his truth bother you?

~ Marsh

Really? How do you know that he thinks he's spending quality time this way?

Maybe he's just trying to unwind and relax w/ his family.


Thank you for your advice Marsh and everyone else. I really need it. I know this because this is what he told me.


How did he punish you?

He punished me by not talking to me the rest of the night.



Why do you let his truth bother you?

Because when he made this statement he punished me for that as well, by not talking to me that night as well.


You are giving to get, Mary.

This type of giving will ALWAYS bring disappointment!

Give b/c you want to be a giving person. A more loving person. Being these things will FILL your LB to over flowing.


I agree with this statement to some degree. On some level I am giving to get his attention on some level. But also because me doing the things he needs from me to keep him from feeling the way I do right now and because he knows I feel this way and he is not doing the things I asked of him I feel like he doesn't care as much as he says he does.

Mary, do you know that your H doesn't feel loved by you?



You are in his stuff, Mary. And so was your IC. Has he/she ever met him?

I just don't see how this type of thinking is helpful.

Share w/ your H. Love him. Connect w/ him.

~ Marsh

Also I didn't answer this but I guess I don't really know how to do things that make me happy or I am afraid to do them because I feel he may punish me for doing things for myself outside the home without the kids because he has to watch them. So I feel good that I am doing something for myself but the I will feel bad because he will withdraw from me as he has done in the past and present.

How do I do that? How do I share and connect w/him.

Yes Marsh she has met him she is also our MC. If he doesn't feel loved it's because he will not tell me what he needs from me to feel loved. I am more than willing to do what he needs me to do, but I can't get him to open up and tell me what his EN are.

Hi DIG,

I've read your thread, and the article you posted on the passive aggressive man, above. Read this thread on the Passive Aggressive Spouse

It will take a while but try to read through the whole thread.

What I hope for you to take away from reading that thread is your role in this dance you do with your husband. In order to fix things you have got to change your "dance steps".

The thing about a P/A spouse is they can only do it, if you allow it.

Realize that your husband uses the behavior as a defense mechanism, and learned it to protect himself in his childhood.

When you participate in the dance, you become a willing partner in it. So you have to learn strategies to stop yourself from participating.

When my husband would criticize my housekeeping or computer use or time I spent gardening or whatever, I would allow that to upset me and I'd REACT by getting angry and hurt.

I got to the point that I was frightened to tell him what money I spent, I would be frightened when he came home in an angry mood, I would be frightened when he would come in with judgement, I could see that he was pissed off that the house wasn't clean or whatever, even though I had valid reasons for putting other things ahead in my own priority list.

If he could put me on the defensive he could gain a sense of control.

I would cower trying to please him, he said jump and I'd jump and ask "is that high enough?"

As I became more skilled in my career, as I made more money, as I became less dependent on him and more successful in my own right, he became more Passive Aggressive, because he feared me not needing him.

And it led directly to his affair.

And long before he chose to betray our marriage, I was in your shoes, lapping up the attention of an inappropriate male friendship to make myself feel better.

I had seriously considered leaving during the time I was involved in the inappropriate friendship which is an EA. But when he cheated on me, I was devastated beyond description. It hurt so bad I would have welcomed death if only to stop the agony.

And I read your story and I see you walking on my path to destruction.

I had to face the fact that I was 100% accountable for the state of our marriage, even though, Like You, I put a stop to the inappropriate friendship and focused on trying to be the perfect wife. But I was so angry that he didn't appreciate me and how much I was trying to do everything right. And things did get better, but the problems were still growing like mold in the basement. Our marriage looked good and seemed 'fine' but the foundation was rotting away, as my husband convinced himself that I didn't love him.

And who can blame him? I didn't spend much time focusing on what was right between us, only came to him with relationship problems, not the positives.

I forgot to tell him that in spite of our troubles I love him dearly, I forgot to remind him what I told him when we first fell in love, that God had sent him to me, and that I thank God for him every day, that he is precious to me.

After D-Day, I was angry, and hurt, and humiliated, and devastated, but I told him that even if we couldn't recover that I will always love him, but that I would not be in his life if we were to divorce. It would be too painful. So his choice was to try and recover or lose the one person on earth who recognized how precious he is.

You could lose your husband if you don't change your interactions with him. The only way you can do that is to change your own behavior.

Once you change your behavior, your own dance steps, a magical thing happens. He has to learn new dance steps.

You have to stop fearing his anger. You have to stop fearing his judgement. You get right with God and yourself, and his anger will no longer feel like a father's anger. And you will be able to take back your adult.

By reacting to his anger, you buy into acting from your child, and by doing that you act from your child, a position of powerlessness.

You must ACKNOWLEDGE but not REACT. Make a habit of not arguing, ever. Do not try to convince him of anything. When you feel your anxiety rising, LET IT GO, call on God to help you, tell yourself to LET IT GO, ask God to catch you, He will.

Remove your REACTIVE ANGER from the equasion, and he will have no choice but to treat you like an adult, because otherwise you will not engage.

When he raises his voice, stay calm, do not react, do not talk back. If you say anything, say, "I see you feel angry." Do not apologize for his anger.

If you slip, while you're teaching yourself this new behavior, point it out, saying, "I'm sorry that I'm feeling angry, I'm working on that."

Forget about asking him to change. A P/A person believes that you are attempting to control them when you do that.

You can tell him that your daughters benefit from positive interactions with their father, but do not tell him what to do. Let him come around to it, if he does, and if he doesn't, it's not the end of the world, it is less damaging than divorced parents in the long run.

I can tell you I was a straight A student and love to read and my father never read to me once in my life, but my mother did, when I was little. You can encourage your girls to read by taking them to the library, and allowing them to pick out their own books. Encourage your older girls to read to the younger ones. Praise them praise them praise them when they do it. Beam smiles, and big hugs for them and show your pride in how bright they are. That will do more for them than a begrudging tired dad reading to them with resentment.

No matter what he does, though, do not let it affect your mood. If he's sulky, you stay calm, centered, and in control of your own emotions. You can do this.

Or, you can choose to believe it's too hard. You can choose to make life harder for you and your beautiful kids.

I'll pray for you.


One more thing. You know what his ENs are, listen to his complaints very closely. He has a top need for domestic support. You have been working on that, I believe, right? You might want to try just 'straightening up' a little right before he's scheduled to come home each day.

Get the girls to start learning to pick up their rooms while you pick up the living room or family room, so when he walks in there is an atmosphere of calm and orderliness.

When he comes home, give him a kiss and hug as you greet him. Do not underestimate the power in this little step.

Let go of your anger and resentment, stop expecting things from him, and start showing him care, by making the things he has compained about important enough to change. Take pride in being his wife, and be grateful for your many blessings. You have so much to be grateful for, your lovely home, your beautiful girls, your health, and a husband who may be unhappy right now, but who you love very much. BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE. And then delight in your changes.

M4L gave a good post. Read it again and let it sink in.;)

Here's my advice: NEVER show fear to a WS or a mad dog. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.