ARK you are such a BLESSING to us ALL...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maybe he wants advice on marriage from people like you.

And me - I'm not Catholic, but I have been married for almost twenty-five years, with no adultery. But why not seek advice from people with good marriages, and (hopefully) bad marriages that have recovered.

I would hope people interested in building marriage would come to a messageboard named as this one is.

Regards,
rs0522

well rs..

because I think that the search begins with the basics...
not when all beliefs are under the greatest of attacks....

there is plenty of doubt fear and anger on this board..
the active throes of fidelity....

this is not the site of healthy marriages at this stage of the game...

I don't feel comfortable giving a lot of great marriage advice on this board....

because people aren't able to use the messages necessarily right now....

this site is great for marriage advice...
this board though may not be...

this board is for those in pain....

and even the base rational of questioning is skewed in my opinion...

only God knows the heart of each man..
and for us to ponder what goes on in confession between God and man...is not of our business nor judgement...
for we can not know what lies in others hearts.....

this is a board of great sorrow.....

the recovery board in my opinion is a better site..
for this discussion....

I would not come here to this board to try to find out about how marriages work..
this is so very sadly a board about marriages that aren't working...

ARK

my advice for a how a marriage works..

uhhh number one

don't be an infidel...

that is infact the definition of marriage...
ARK

Athanasius, it is not my intention to question your good faith.

Here is something for you to perhaps consider and that may help in your “infuriation.” NONE of us is “guaranteed” to be right all of the time and NONE of is God.

There are MANY “religions” in the world, and many of them believe sincerely that “their” religion is the only true religion and every other religion is “misguided” at best and “heretical” at worst.

I think Ark indicated that the “good faith” you refer to seems to be directed at gaining information and knowledge for yourself. There is nothing wrong with that because it may certainly help you should you ever decide to get married yourself. But you are wanting to do that “acquiring” through the “filter” of Roman Catholicism and FOR yourself, not so much to help others who are going through some of the most difficult times of their lives where EVERYTHING that they may believe in, including God and His “goodness,” is called into question in the huge emotional responses that infidelity triggers. It is fine to try to remain “philosophical” about the subject matter, but you need to understand that there is little “philosophical” about it to those who are drowning in the midst of the reality of an adulterous relationship that is destroying their marriage.



OUR, yours and my, responsibility is to God first as individuals who “claim the name of Christ” as our own personal Lord and Savior. GOD, not us, not the religious denomination we identify with or associate ourselves with, SHOULD BE the focus and Christ should be the sole LORD of our lives, not anyone or anything else. Wouldn’t you agree?

Consider this also, YOU titled this thread to specifically tie ROMAN CATHOLIC Confession, and all the attendant meanings that appertain to THAT specific doctrine of that specific church. It seems a little illogical to “get upset” when someone takes a position that the RCC specific definition of what the Sacrament of Confession means (including all the attendant underlying beliefs that lead to RCC meaning of that “Confession” means).

Why does it seem illogical? For two main reasons. The first has already been touched upon…you put that specific belief up as the “yardstick” and “focus” of the thread. The second is that IF that “yardstick” is, in your mind, THE correct yardstick related to a proper understanding of God’s teaching concerning the Forgiveness of Sin, (or at least a “tool” that may destabilize an affair) then you should be able to “defend” that position based upon what the Scripture says and not solely on the basis of what any mortal man says. That leads to understanding of not only your own faith, but in perhaps helping others to understand why “your” interpretation of God’s clear Word is the “truth,” or at least “better than” what someone else (like me) may believe.

Usually when anger rises it’s because people are feeling an emotional response, not a logical response. Anger tends to shut down discussion with an “I’m going to take my bat and ball and go home” sort of reaction that is another form of our “Taker” in action. The same “reluctance” or “anger” about discussing the “why’s” of one’s beliefs is not restricted to Catholics. I am thinking about the followers of Jim Jones, for example. They put Jim Jones up as the “authority” and put his words on a par with God’s Word. The followers of Charlie Manson considered Charlie to BE Jesus and followed his words without question.

God is very clear, but one thing that he tells us we should do is to “be still, and know that I am God.” That means to quiet our emotions and let the Holy Spirit lead us into understanding what God is saying and how it applies to our lives. It is the “job” of the Holy Spirit to do these things for each individual believer, as per Jesus’ promise to the disciples.

Here’s the “bottom line” with respect to God and the Scripture. I am perfectly willing to “change” any interpretation of Scripture that I may hold if someone can show me, Scripturally, why my interpretation is not consistent with God’s revelation and teaching. But that REQUIRES discussion of issues that CAN be emotionally inflammatory. God addresses even this sort of possibility when He says, “Be angry(meaning righteous anger against sin or false teaching against God) but do not also sin (in response to that emotion of anger) in response.” This is especially true when we begin to examine some of the “deeper” truths of God, especially when what God says may come into “conflict” with our reason and what we might like to think. That is because God is the authority, not us. We all continue to live in a “sin-natured” body and are susceptible to things that we “like” rather than what God may have said. Adultery is but one example wherein even believers caught up in the sin of adultery can try to “reinterpret” God’s teaching (i.e., Thou shalt not commit adultery) and change truths into lies in order to allow them to do what they “want” to do. For example, WS’s have many times said that “God must approve of my adultery or why else would he have brought my OP ‘soulmate’ into my life?” Or they will even say such nonsense (nonsense is MY opinion of what they say) as, “I am saved, therefore I can willfully disregard God’s clear commands with impunity and with immunity.” My opinion is that they seriously need to consider whether or not they truly are saved because it is God, not us, who “sets the rules.” What they attempt to do is to take a truth of God and “twist” it to allow them to behave in a manner that is antithetical to God and to perform sins that are anathema to God.

So, if we can, let me list some things that you have said “in public” that I could let myself grow angry about, but that I don’t because I have “been there, done that” when I was a younger Christian and full of “zeal” and had not really examined the reasons for “why I believe what I believe.” This “examination” is also part of the process of Sanctification that the Holy Spirit leads us in for our whole lives, so that we can mature in the faith and become more “Christ-like” in our individual lives.


1. First of all, are you sure it’s appropriate to have this kind of religious discussion at all on a board dedicated to building up marriages? I don’t see how this is going to build up anyone’s.


2. I’m not sure of your intentions towards me.


3. But as for Catholic teachings, one of my (Catholic) first principles denies the validity of private interpretations of Scripture in areas where the Catholic Church has spoken. So it’s a waste of time for you to try to convince me, for example, that Protestants are right about what St. Paul meant in Romans, until you’ve altered that first principle.


4. I believe Protestantism fits exactly the historical typology of heresies.


5. I think the first principles of Protestantism are absurd, self-contradictory, annul themselves, promote pride, and make nonsense of the very idea of Revelation.


So let me address your statements briefly, by way of answer and/or clarification.

Point 1. Marriage is a covenant relationship that was ordained and established by God regardless of one’s personal belief in God. God builds up and does not “destroy” marriages because marriage is “supposed to” be a reflection of the marriage of Christ and His “bride,” the church.

Point 2. My intentions toward you are simple. As a self professed believer in Christ, God and His Word are the “authority.” You can choose whatever earthly “church” you want to associate with, but it would be prudent to make as sure as you possibly can that the teachings of that “church” are consistent with God’s revealed Word and not the product of someone’s “imagination,” personal justification, or twisting of God’s truths (as Satan tried to do with Jesus) to accomplish their own objectives.

Point 3. Taking a blind approach to the teachings of ANY earthly religious body is potentially dangerous to your own relationship with God. Following any belief, sincerely or not, is potentially dangerous if it is in “conflict” with God’s will and God’s revelation to us as given in His Word. It can lead, for example, to the “blind leading the blind” sort of lemon like following the herd over the cliff. That is similar to my previous example of the followers of Jim Jones.

Here's a potentially interesting thing to think about in relation to your statement (which IS the teaching of the RCC), "one of my (Catholic) first principles denies the validity of private interpretations of Scripture in areas where the Catholic Church has spoken." The RCC considers itself to be built on Peter and that the Pope is infallible when acting in the "role of Peter." Was Paul's "interpretation" of God's inclusion of Gentiles into the spiritual family of Abraham a "private interpretation," since it was directly opposed to Peter's interpretation regarding the issue of circumcision as a REQUIREMENT for being a true believer in Christ?

Obviously the New Testament Scripture had not been written at this point, but Peter was "interpreting" the Hebrew Scripture and Paul was "interpreting" the same Scripture in the light of the Messiah. Both Peter and Paul were Apostles, directly appointed by Jesus Himself, yet the sincere position of each of them could not BOTH be correct. It IS God who reveals the truth, not the interpretations of Men, and each "interpretation" of Men MUST be examined BY Scripture, especially when it seems to take a "truth" of Scripture and "misapply it."

Point 4. You can certainly take that opinion, but opinions should be based upon careful examination of the “facts” before coming to a conclusion. It is impossible to come to that sort of conclusion without actually examining the “areas of disagreement” or “conflict,” because one is faced in most circumstances with the FACT that either both positions are false, one of the positions is false and the other is true, but NOT both can be true.
For the record, the official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that no one can be saved UNLESS they are a Roman Catholic. Therefore, the RCC “sets up” their doctrines as the “only correct doctrine” and all other “religions are false. It excludes anyone who is not a member of the RCC. Now, I don’t want to get into their “accommodation” for some who are not “within the RCC” at this time, but we could discuss that also at some future date if you are so inclined.

Point 5. Okay. Again, you are free to believe whatever you wish to believe. But it would seem to make sense that if you do believe that, then the specific “principles of Protestantism” that you consider to be absurd, self-contradictory, annul themselves, promote pride, and make nonsense of the very idea of Revelation should be examined in detail to arrive at such an opinion with respect to how they are either consistent with, or in opposition to, God’s Word and not just the opinions of others. IF someone believes that they hold the “Truth,” then they should not “fear” examining or discussing “opposing” positions because such an examination only leads to clarification and “right thinking” of what God has said and why one believes what they believe (since most sincere believers DO want to be followers of God and not followers of men).

When you state categorically “I am a convert to Catholicism so cannot ignore ANY of the Church's teachings although there are many I do not understand”, I understand that because that is a Major Tenet of the Roman Catholic Church. The RCC sets itself up as the ONLY “voice for God” on earth and excludes all others. The “danger” in such a dogmatic stance is precisely the area that you identified, “there are many(teachings) I do not understand.” It is in this area that these teachings, imho, require one to actually examine them in order to gain understanding and either embrace or reject them, but not to simply “follow blindly.”



There is nothing wrong in “attempting to see to what extent belief or not in a particular doctrine has affected marriages.” But I would caution you to understand two things that are relevant to your attempt.

First, many of God’s doctrines, i.e., “love your neighbor as yourself,” are often stated or expressed in “secular” ways such as “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” God’s directive is “universal” and is NOT dependent upon a belief in God anymore than the fact that God sustains the universe by His will and power needs to be believed in order for the universe to “work” according to the principles that God created (i.e., gravity, etc.) Following “God’s ways” even for those who don’t believe in God is a “good thing” from a purely practical, interactive with other people, sort of way. This is getting into the area of “common grace” that God affords to all mankind regardless of whether or not they acknowledge Him.

Second, when you DO bring “God into the picture” and use His “measuring stick” for evaluation, then you automatically bring into the discussion “what IS God’s position on this subject” whether or not we happen to “like” what God has to say about it. It is this part that most often leads to feelings of “irritation” because it necessitates examining the “why” of whatever it is that we accept or believe currently, and the potential that we may come to realize that the position we were holding is not God’s position, no matter how “irritating” it might be. Virtually no one that I know of comes in the “body of Christ” a fully mature believer. We start out as babies, trusting in God that His “requirement” of “The Way” to be reconciled to Him is NOT dependent upon anything that we do, but is solely a gift of grace and mercy through what Jesus did for us. We then begin to learn what “being a Christian” means and how to surrender our lives and thoughts to God, and to God alone.

God bless.

Ark ~ I think you are a bit unfair with Athanasius.

There is certainly room (and a place) for discussion about the impact of Catholic beliefs on marriages and more specifically infidelity.

Unfortunately, while this forum does provide a safe place for Christians to discuss infidelity and MB principles in the context of their Christian beliefs, and while there are safe places for a secular discussion of MB principles in a non-religious fashion, there is no safe place on these boards for a Catholic to discuss these things. The reason is precisely as Athanasius points out, there are people, FH is one of the aggregious offenders, who threadjack, not to discuss, but to LECTURE, JUDGE and DEMAND that Catholics recognize the error of Catholic beliefs every single time one tries to discuss anything Catholic.

You are right, people here are in pain, and trying to put their entire WORLD, their entire REALITY and BELIEF system back together. I certainly was one of those reeling in shock right after D-Day - we were Catholic - how could he do that?!!

NSR's beautiful posts about marriage, infidelity, annulments all in the context of Catholic beliefs were SO HELPFUL to me. I can't imagine what would happen if he were here posting today...

The constant assault on Catholics on these boards is harmful to BSes in pain.

Athanasious is not the problem.

If Catholic discussion about marriage, infidelity and MB concepts is not appropriate here, then neither should there be any other Christian discussions.

No bramblerose..

I am honestly not saying that Catholic beliefs/discussions don't belong here......

my opinion is that he might gain more insight (as he seeks) on the recovery board....

believe me bramble the facts you point out are one of my biggest concerns..

I am very protective of those in pain here.....and these discussion always break in to religious wars....

people already confused...lacking sleep and food...and in great pain....barely need the us against them war brought in to the mix...which what it always breaks in to.....

so I totally agree...and stay far away from it...

I love practicing my Catholic Faith...
I love doing it with no concern as to what others think or believe...
I love seeking out guidance from apologetic sites and other Catholic forums....

I would love to talk about people attending Cursios and all the other gifts and sacraments of the Church...

but I know to well where it will end up
debate defend debate defend debate defend...

I think I just don't think that Athans agenda of seeking healthy information will be gained here...
for his own chance of getting want he seeks ..this may not be the place....
unfortunately...

I am not trying to be tough...
but you and I have seen it happen over and over...

just trying to either redirect his original questions....so he can gain the insight he seeks...

or redirect to a board that can meet his current agenda...

in fact my Catholic answer to his question is that A Catholic should not give a thought about anyone else and their confessions...

God alone knows that...
all the stuff is speculation..
the original question in my opinion. is in and of itself unanswerable...

no one KNOWS what someone says in confession....
cept present company excluded...)

so to ponder what a WS does/says in confession just becomes fellow Catholics judging them in a totally unknown realm...

ARK

Ark ~ I agree with you that in terms of "what works" that his questions here are futile. I agree with you that the fights are very harmful..but again...that is NOT the Athanasius' fault, his questions ARE appropriate. The problem is with the profoundly anti-catholic few that disrupt thread after thread...

however ~ while Athanasius may not be dealing with an affair, he has the energy and will and apparently the time to respond to those who have all but crushed Catholic discussion on this board.

Catholic discussion is necessary here.

I was a cradle Catholic, believing that God had bound me and my husband together for life...hurt..damaged...destroyed...my catholic faith in jeopardy because of my hurt and disillusionment...and my anger with God...because my belief that MY marriage was safer, better, stronger because of my Catholic faith...I needed to hear from others how to put my life together in a Catholic context. THANK GOD there were Catholics here that could talk to me about MB and about marriage - and no, those other Catholic sites out there could NOT have helped me at that time. THIS place was my only safe place where I felt that I had ray of hope, a light back to sanity. I don't think I would have been so well off had NSR not been here to show me the path ....I needed him here...

That discussion has been chased from these boards, and I welcome someone with the ability to defend that here. Catholics should NOT have to come to these boards and apologize for their beliefs.

Athanasius...

First, I like to tell you that I am not Catholic, but I am a Christian who was a WS...I'm not sure that what I have to say even belongs on this thread because of the fact that I am not Catholic, but I do like you Athanasius, based on the things that you have said on LilSis' thread...So, hopefully you may gain something from my experience as a WS that is a Christian...

When I was a WS, I could not even pray...I had to fight VERY hard to push God out of my mind, because I KNEW that I was in active rebellion to Him...I remember very clearly how hard this was to do...It was a constant battle as I had always had a close personal relationship with Christ...It was so bad, that I could not even read Christian fiction...NOTHING that had to do with God at all...Everytime the thoughts would come to mind, I would immediately begin thinking of something else...ANTHING ELSE that I could...I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt, that had I have been Catholic, that I could not and would not have gone to confession...I just could NOT have brought myself to go through ANY church door...My behavior was SHAMEFUL and I knew it...I knew that NOTHING could justify what I was doing in God's eyes, and yet the pull and addiction was so strong...I was quite famous for using the double negative sentence, "I just can't not do this"...

At one point I came home and opened our bedroom door and found Mr. W on his knees praying beside our bed...This really infuriated me and I wanted very much to use it against him with OM by ridiculing him for it-HOW SICK IS THAT??? I called OM and told him about it, thinking that he would make fun of Mr. W with me about it...OM got very quite and said, "Wow, Mrs. W, he must REALLY love you." and then quickly ended the conversation with me...It was shortly after that that he ended the affair...There were other factors as to why, some you may have read on LilSis' thread, but I will always believe that those factors came into play because of divine intervention...God was there...

Also during this time, Mr. W had a very real dream about really dark creatures trying to get at me and him trying desperately to save me from them-he, of course, is much better at telling the details of this...He is very much a realist type of guy, but upon waking, there was no doubt in his mind that what he dreamed was VERY real...That it was truly spritual warfare...He continued to pray and became much closer in his relationship to God and remains so today...

Today we are very happily married and working the Marriage Builders principles in our marriage and will continue to do so...I am so grateful for the second chance that I've been given with my husband...It is such a gift, and the greatest of blessings...

I sincerely apologize if this fits nowhere in your thread, in fact, if you'd like I can delete the post...I just really wanted to share, and I do sincerely hope that you or others gain something from our story...

Respectfully,

Mrs. W

Bramblerose - that you are offended by anything that I may have said is not my intention. So please accept my apology for what you may feel is offensive.

I personally also think that you are engaging in a similar disrespectful judgment. I do not try to "LECTURE, JUDGE and DEMAND that Catholics recognize the error of Catholic beliefs every single time one tries to discuss anything Catholic." I am willing to DISCUSS the beliefs with the Scripture as the Authority that is recognized by both Catholics and non-Catholics alike who consider themselves saved by a belief in Jesus Christ. The "judging" of one's beliefs is ultimately up to God, but the Scripture clearly instructs all believers; "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."(1John 4:1) It is the "testing," the examining, the studying, of anything that is put forth as "from God" that is designed by God to assist us in determining for ourselves if what is said is truly from God or not.

As pertains to your allegation that I "DEMAND" that Catholics, or anyone for that matter, give up their religion, I NEVER demand anyone give up anything. We are each free to choose whatever we want to believe. But the sincerity of one's belief is not the issue. The issue, at least in so far as Christians and Christian belief is concerned, is what God has said and not what Man has said if what Man says is in conflict or opposition to God's revelation of HIS position as He has revealed it to us in His Word.

It is very disrespectful of you to accuse me of "demanding" anything. You may not like what I say, and by all means if what I say is NOT "in line" with Scripture, then call me on it anytime and I will follow God's directive in 2 Corinthians 13:5, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves," and in Lamentations 3:40, "Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the LORD." We "test ourselves" by examining what we believe against the authority of Scripture.




PEOPLE are not the problem, per se. The "problem" is anything that may lead us FROM God rather than TO God. Those potential "problem areas" are worthy of discussion whether we like it or not simply because all Christians, I would think, want to be aware of what God says about them.

I have never said nor implied that Athanasius is the problem. But you seem to want to put words in my mouth to support your DJ of anyone, specifically me in this case, who might open their mouth and say something that you find offensive. I cannot help your feelings, but I do not intend for you to "get mad, or get hurt." I stand on the Word of God and for love of sound biblical doctrine. I believe deeply that the Scripture, for Christians, is the sole authority and that 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is God's purpose for Scripture in the life of Christians: "All Scripture is God-breathed (inspired) and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

I am equally congnizant of God's instruction and warning to believers in 2 Timothy 4:1-5: "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Wrod; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage - with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry."

I would commend the entire book of 2 Timothy to you as it pertains greatly to this entire of issue.




No one has said that Catholic discussion about any subject matter is "not appropriate." Your "stretch" that discussion OF those Catholic views should be somehow "immune" from discussion, however, is interesting, especially if someone who proposes that "view" as part of the discussion also believes that "view" is the right view and other "views" are wrong.


God bless.

Citation reference please: “Be angry(meaning righteous anger against sin or false teaching against God) but do not also sin (in response to that emotion of anger) in response.” And what translation?

Bramblerose, I'll tell you what, forget my previous post. I will retire from posting anything. Please understand that I was attempting to have a discussion with Athanasius directly, both on this thread and on the thread where he apparently set out to attack me, my beliefs, anything not "Catholic," not to ARGUE, but to DISCUSS, to give him and answer for what I believe and why I believe it.

The "groundrules" were set by him within the framework of Catholic doctrine and teaching and I did nothing more than respond to, not originate, the discussion topic.

But frankly I've had enough too.

I personally also think that you are engaging in a similar disrespectful judgment. I do not try to "LECTURE, JUDGE and DEMAND that Catholics recognize the error of Catholic beliefs every single time one tries to discuss anything Catholic."

the error of Catholic beliefs...

can it be foreverhers...that Catholics aren't interested in whether they are right or wrong..

that they don't spend any energy worrying about that..except within their own journey of faith

that the path they choose is the path they have chosen...
and do not concern themselves with the error of Catholic beliefs..

and would like to discuss their belief even in the mix of their errors...with others who understand their base belief

I truly believe that you don't even see your posts
the way they sound
the way they come accross...

you my friend when it comes to Catholic errors are in a FOG
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Catholics believe in confession...period...they choose to..
in good faith they believe it...equal to your counter belief...of it being unnecessary....


and the difference is that the Catholic belief comes with no judgement towards your belief...

there is NO energy expended on what others do or don't do..


you see only the errors...
over and over again...

I guess you can't help it..

We can post scripture after scripture as to why Catholics believe in confession...

and you can' post scripture after scripture to prove the error....

where will it end....

ark

A.M.Martin - My paraphrase of the following. I'll make this my last post, since you ask specifically for Scripture.

"Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath" (Ephesians 4:26 KJV)

""Be angry, and do not sin": do not let sun go down on your wrath" (Ephesians 4:26 NKJV)

"In your anger do not sin" (Ephesians 4:26 NIV)


Commentary from the MacArthur Study Bible:

Ephesians 4:26 - Be angry and do not sin. Quoted from Ps.4:4. By NT standards, anger can be either good or bad, depending on motive and purpose. Paul may have been sanctioning righteous indignation, anger at evil. This type of anger hates injustice, immorality, ungodliness, and every other sin. When such anger is unselfish and based on love for God and others, it not only is permissible but commanded. Jesus expressed this righteous anger (see Matt.21:12; Mark 3:5; John 2:15).

sun go down. Even righteous anger can turn to bitterness, so should be set aside by the end of the each day. If anger is prolonged, it may become hostile and violate the instruction of Rom.12:17-21.


God bless

Yes, as is true for many, if not most, people.




That is entirely possible, Ark. That is precisely the reason why I am leaving. I will let the Lord lead as He wills, not as I might think He wills. All people answer to God, not to me or to anyone else.

God bless.

Personally
I would LOVE to have an entire thread devoted to Catholic marriage recovery ... completely free of non-Catholic interference !!!!

that would be a great service to me

injecting the "Yes but you Catholics do this wrong ... blah blah blah" ... is just so much static and not helpful

Imagine someone started a thread to discuss Mormon marriage recovery ... and I decided to take over the thread pointing out the differences between Mormon and Catholic doctrine ... I'd be making an [censored] out of myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

If there was such a specific Mormon marriage recovery thread, I'd read it with interest ... but I would never presume to take their religion apart the way FH has done here, and on other threads as well.

I find it very unsupportive of the needs of others to take over a CLEARLY STATED discussion of CATHOLIC DOCTRINES ... and make it about something else...

rude
rude
rude

please stop

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Yikes...I hope my earlier post to this thread wasn't considered rude...I did offer to delete it, and the offer still stands...

Mrs. W

no
was not you

you shared your experience & did not call into question the Catholic tradition of going to confession

I am saying that I personally could use a thread devoted to Catholic marriage issues devoid of any attempts to put the traditiions into question

... there is a separate thread for that !

Pep

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Pep ~ thank you, thank you, thank you for this!! I personally no longer read or respond to FH posts since he constantly bashes Catholicism, claims to *know* alot about it, makes false statements and presumptions, and does not want to hear even consider refutations. He made many inaccurate statements about Catholicism on another thread, he offered to ME to take it offline and debate it. I did, I spent a long time refuting every one of is inaccuracies, and he never, ever responded.

I have no respect for Catholic bashers. Catholic apologetics was a big hobby of mine before d-day, and I do have SOME knowledge of Catholicism. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I have not and will not ever point out to a fellow Christian how they are *wrong* because they believe differently than me. That is hypocritical and disrespectful, and not what Christ calls us to do. IMVHO, that is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Besides that, am I ever really going to change their mind by pointing out how wrong they are, how their religion is messed up and wrong, wrong, wrong? I highly doubt it, it will only be offensive and push them even further away. Again, IMHO.