Dear rwinger,

Your post is a bit of a tangent, but I don't mind too much. I feel such relief at seeing a Catholic start a sentence with the words "From my perspective" but then finish it with something the Church has been shouting from the rooftops for 2000 years.

Don't feel bad about not having much learning. First of all, you know how to read the Bible. Millions of Christians have lived and died without that much learning. Also, I'm pretty learned myself, so I can assure you from experience that learning doesn't make anyone happy. Virtue does, especially faith, hope, and charity.

I would suggest that you read the Catechism along with the Bible. The Bible's a complex thing and the Catechism is a guide to what 2000 years of other Catholics, some very learned and very holy indeed, have worked out about what the Bible means.

This is a very good Catechism:

http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Catechism...TF8&s=books

eav1967
Sorry - Too horrific to visionlize. I will never understand this business. It just doesnt make sense to me. Your refuge & safey violated - awful. Makes me feel anger to hear of someone so hurt.

Anth

Thanks for kind words.

Like I said we are a simple hardworking family and I recall my father said to me when I was 17 going on my first date. He said that the girl I am taking out or any others in the future are special because one day they will have some one call them 'Mom'.

Always treat any woman as if you want your own mother to be treated.

He also gave that speech to my sons some time ago - may be the reason for them to intervened when I was starting to get some bad vibes re: my wife. They didnt know what I know and still to this day. Just glad my W snapped out of it or the A ran out of steam before it became ugly.

[Mrs. W. in withdrawal from OM consults a psychic...]

Mrs. W., I don't wish to alarm you further, but I am concerned by this event, especially since Mr. W. actually dreamt of fighting demons for you. I'm going to ignore the theme of my own thread for a moment to address this, as I suspect that most of the people you know are too rationalistic to take this problem seriously.

Does your denomination offer any specific resources against evil spirits? We Catholics have a nice prayer invoking the aid of the Archangel Michael, who threw Lucifer out of Heaven in the first place, which I imagine you could use, if you don't have theological objections to invoking angels.

It goes like this:

Saint Michael Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the Devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and You, Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, cast into He11, Satan and the other evil spirits, who prowl through the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

Also, the Catholic Church advises her lay faithful not to speak to demons, if they ever have the misfortune to encounter any. Apparently it encourages them. It's better to abjure them with the above prayer, the sign of the Cross, waving a Bible or a crucifix at them, or something like that. I think that's good advice for any Christian.

This is one of my favorite prayers.

I said this with my children every night while my husband was having his affair. I have an icon of St. Michael in their room.

I also love love love to be present at baptism. I get chills down my spine as we reject Satan as a spiritual community. I imagine that such powerful prayers must torture Satan.

this looks way better than the one I've had for a long time

"Why Do Catholics...?"
by Sister Charlene Altemose

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Does it have an imprimatur?

Ath:
This may be inherently obvious to you, but since works + faith are what you believe, I am wondering what purpose did Jesus slaying have?

From my point of view, Jesus paid for my debts and all others because no matter how "good" we are, it can never be good enough.

Pep


I suck at Concise.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I've been pondering a long while on how and why people compartmentalise. H lived essentially two lives for a long time - since late adolescence. He was a habitual compartmentaliser. From all I've gleaned from him and from the endless emails between him and OWs1-4, I've come to think that there's a pervading sense of unreality in some people - not just in the affair life, but in the real life as well.

I don't think we all have the same sense of being 'real'. If you're living a life based on values that come from your honest core, then there's little about you that can feel false. However, if you've never learned the habits that allow you to connect with your gut-level self, or you've been actively prevented from exploring those aspects of yourself, then a lot of what you do is not really 'you'. You're essentially acting your way through life, with as much belief in your reality as an actor has when playing a role. Except, unlike the actor, you don't know that you're acting.


I think that people who get into the habit of slipping into an alternative reality, erode the sense of who they really are. The sense of what's the 'real' reality becomes harder and harder to hold onto. If they're challenged by something for which they don't have a ready-made opinion, they have to run it past their conscience and values - but which conscience? Which set of values? It becomes harder and harder to resist the views of others, when you're not scrutinisng them from a coherent conscience.

When it comes to the Mafia, I think the whole culture is probably strongly geared to suppress self-awareness and hold all members in a permanent state of 'dream' reality. Going from Communion to assassination is probably a similar process to reading 'Catcher in the Rye' and identifying with adolescent angst, then switching on 'Desperate Housewives' and feeling enraged by Edie's latest act of mischief. Neither is 'real life', so both are equally valid. But I suspect that Mafia culture persuades itself that it is upholding Catholic virtues in some kind of Fog of its own.

Is that any help?

TA

Thank you for addressing this with me...I am fearful of it too-it weighs heavily on my mind...I do have friends that are of another faith than we are that are planning to "lay hands" on me at the end of this month...You are right that Southern Baptists don't readily address that stuff, which is odd, as it is Biblical...

Thank you very much for the prayer...I will say it...

I know this is an different topic(sorta), but if you do know anything about it, I would be interested in hearing your views on it...perhaps on another thread...Free Masonry...My father is a free mason/"shriner"/33rd degree...from some of the stuff that I have read, this is a pretty bad organization as far as Christianity is concerned-I read that upon making it to the 34th degree they are taught that "Lucifer is God"-Now THAT really creeps me out...The friend that I mentioned earlier is who brought this to my attention when talking to me about generational curses...I have not read up enough on it to understand the correlation...You seem so studied, I just thought you might know more???

Thank you so much for being so welcoming to me on your thread...it is much appreciated...

Mrs. W

P.S. rwinger...I'm so sorry if reading our story was a trigger for you...I do know how despicable my behavior was...I have repented and am doing everything that I can to make up for my terrible choices...I wish you well...

YES it was a help

thank-y kindly

and that was dayuuuum concise (for you! ... BHAAAA <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

this is particularly interesting

Mrs. W~



In your opinion, what was it that really "fueled" you to repent, stop justifying and start "doing everything that I can to make up for my terrible choices..."? I am just wondering if you had an "a-ha" moment, or if it was a gradual climbing out of the abyss...???

Also, do you and Mr. W have your story posted anywhere? I would be really interested in reading it.

I hope you know that having FWSs here, like yourself, is so helpful for us BSs to really try to understand our FWSs and what they are going through....which in turn helps us to hopefully be able to curtail our behaviors in order to help them, too....(did you get all that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />)

Sorry for the TJ, Ath!

Romans 8:38-39

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If we are truly His, nothing can separate us from His love.

WE might go astray, but He will never forsake us.

``````````````````````````````````

I loved your post on here. It was so open and honest.

You really are a beautiful person.

~ Marsh

The intellectual aspects of my threads have a natural duration. Once I pose the problem, everyone has contributed their experiences and observations, and there's been some discussion, there isn't much left to say.

To summarize the results:

Confession is NOT particularly effective against Fog. It may give a moment of relief and is a foothold for God in the soul of the WS. Either the Fog completely overwhelms the beliefs of the WS, or compartmentalization allows a double life, one in Affair-land and one in Church-land. Neither babble, cruelty, nor devaluation is reduced. The one success story, SaturnRising's, is more due to the spot-on advice she received in the confessional (Praying for her BH every time she thought of OM) than the ceremony itself. That, IMHO, reconnected her with both God -- the ultimate reality -- and her real partner, every time the emotional attachment to OM made itself felt.

This thread seems to be transforming into a Catholic-friendly group counseling thread. Apparently there's been an unmet EN for this kind of thread. I, the owner of this thread, hereby grant permission for this transformation. I throw open the discussion to all topics respectful of Catholic beliefs.

ForeverHers, please continue to abide by my request not to post here. Thank you.

I am going to be off-line for the next ten days because very dear friends are coming to visit me from another continent.

Stay tuned for CD&MH #3 -- Fantasy Reality and Sex.
(That title should pull in the crowds! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

Dear grindnfool,

It's not obvious from the last couple of pages, which have been all over the place, but these threads have the purpose of discussing what EFFECT believing certain Catholic doctrines have on marriages.

But your post seems to be asking me to EXPLAIN and/or DEFEND a Catholic belief, so I will post my reply on my other thread, "The Arguing about Religion Thread".

Ath ~

I believe I hit on this topic quite a bit in the email that I sent ForeverHers (the one he posted here, on this thread) ~ feel free to use whatever you need from that email to address this question, if you want. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

~MF

Thanks MarriedForever. I hope you won't be hurt if I confess I didn't actually read it. There was enough material already over there for the polemics I didn't want to carry on here.

I prayed another rosary for your marriage. Well, not quite finished yet.
You had to share it with LilSis's WH and ForeverHers, though.

Dear Mrs. W.,

Feeling a certain obligation as possibly your least rationalist friend around, and perhaps the only one willing to discuss these matters, I’m back on-site with a quick bit of advice for you before vanishing for ten days.

If these things burden your mind, you should go ahead and have a laying-on of hands. Have the person exorcize your house and car, too. Anywhere you had the crystal and candle. If you like you might put a cross on the front door. (or are the Southern Baptists opposed to using images like that? )

If your or Mr. W.’s rational side rebels, think of it like this: if the rationalistic (and anti-Biblical !) point of view is right, your being upset is a sign of a superstitious belief in non-existent evil spirits. But, if you’re upset, then in some way some part of you is a bit superstitious. Performing these ceremonies will calm that superstitious bit of you and make you feel a lot better. It’s just respectful for your emotions, which are real even if demons aren’t.

And if the Bible’s right, performing the laying-on of hands and house exorcisms is a very good practical idea. Given that dream and your strong intuition of vulnerability to evil.

It’s not the Southern Baptists – Americans just tend to be rationalists. I’m sure a Southern Baptist from, say, the Dominican Republic, would have already called in the aid of a friendly brujo.