IHE is exactly right, jk, you are in no position to demand anything. You dumped him for the OM, after all. He just took you seriously and considers himself DUMPED. He has moved on.

Technically, he is married and shouldn't be screwing around until the divorce is final, but if his marriage is over, it is over and he is free to do whatever the he11 he wants. You made him a free agent. You simply are in NO position to make demands and ESPECIALLY, you are in no position to moralize. You dumped him for your stud, after all, so don't tell him he is immoral for moving on. He moved on becasue you left him.

As IHE pointed out, why should he stay with you? He has a nice GF that is trustworthy, respectful and doesn't make demands. Why should he give that up?

That is what you need to think about when you talk to him. This is what you are UP AGAINST. You must ATTRACT him back from a GF that treats him good.

Stop the demands. Stop "laying down the law," stop moralizing. Start acting kind, pleasant, attractive, decent and moral. AND REMORSEFUL for your own affair. Show him that you have changed into someone that can be considered MARRIAGE MATERIAL.

OK ML, So what do you think about sending him a message saying I even though I don't agree with it,I understand how another woman could look like a much better alternative after all I have done and that I still want to be his wife and there will never be anyone better for me than him?If not do you have any better advice?

jk, I wouldn't talk about his gf at all. Next time you speak to him, tell him how sorry you are for doing this to him and tell him you plan on proving to him that you can be a reliable, trustworthy wife. Take it in baby steps and work on changing yourself for the better. Find out what it was about that you that allowed you to have an affair. He needs to see that you have changed yourself in order to consider you an attractive alternative.

ML,do you mean sorry for having the A,or do you mean my actions the last couple of days?

Sorry for the affair. But while you are at it, you might tell him you are sorry for lecturing him about dating. Just let him know that it hurts you very much.

jk, what kind of things are you doing to change yourself so something like this doesn't happen again? Have you been in counseling? Why did you have an affair?

I have been seeing 2 counselors for the last two months and have read two books on infidelity!Truthfully,I believe several things led to my A!One breakdown of respect in my M,3 years of infertility,and also my desire for attention,which is something I have learned about myself in the last few months that I have really been trying to work on!I have always worked out very hard and always tried to look my best for my H,and I think that when he didn't notice and someone else did it was the straw that broke the camels back!Not justifying it by any means,just what I have realized over the last couple months!I have been really trying to work on being happy with myself internally so that I don't need feel I need someone else to tell me I'm beautiful to know that I am!Although it is nice when ur H notices your effort to look nice for them!And I have told H several times I am sorry for the A!Do I just keep telling him over and over?

I read your thread and feel you are getting excellent advice from ML and a great perspective from IHE.

Yes, you tell him. Empathize with his anger and resentment over it. Show your remorse and regret. I hope you answered all of his questions regarding the A details. Be willing to do whatever it takes to reassure him of your commitment to having the best marriage possible/being the best wife for him, and that you will never have another A.

If he would be willing, get the MB homestudy course and work through it together. Or, it he will, go to an MB weekend.

ML,

I think you are taking it too easy on this BS. He has told his WW that he doesn't want to get divorced but enjoys "being single." He is now having his own affair. Does her affair justify him having one. Her A is OVER, and he has had SF with her on several occasions. The reason he is blowing her off now is because he is having his needs met by the OW. Until she is out of the picture, jk will never win her H back. ML, are you really giving her H a free pass? If he wants to divorce her, that's his call, but he shouldn't be allowed to have his own affair in the meantime. If I were jk, I would tell OW about how her BH doesn't want a divorce and is sleeping with his W while he is pursuing her. That should get her out of the picture.

I can't believe that you've gotten this soft on jk's husband, ML. Would you justify me sleeping with other women because my WW cheated on me and hasn't slept with me in over seven months? After all, she showed no interest in our M, so I should just move on, right? My WW's sister was drunk this weekend (her birthday) and my WW left early. I could have maybe had sex with her. That's okay, right?

JM, what you seem to have missed is that he has moved on. She dumped him for her OM and he doesn't care. It doesn't matter what she thinks about what he is doing; he doesn't have to justify himself to her. He doesn't need a "pass" from her, he already got it when she dumped him for her stud.

If I were him, I wouldn't give her the time of day. But since she does want him back, it might be worth an attempt to save her marriage. She can try all she wants to run off the OW, but she won't succeed. It will just make her look like a flagrant hypocrite since she is the one who dumped him for her stud.

The only thing that might succeed is trying to attract him back. As she has found, "laying down the law" and taking a hard stance with him has only left him disinterested.

He doesn't need permission. He can do what he damn well pleases. She dumped him for her OM.

If he doesn't want a divorce but is having a revenge A...well, we know that two wrongs don't make a right and he may regret it in the long run. Is it payback or it may be as ML says that he has moved on. Maybe he wants to experience what she did for a bit...not great if he really wants to stay married to JK.

As Trix stated, two wrongs don't make a right and I realize this. However, jk forfeited the priviledge of demanding fidelity from him when she dumped him TWICE for her OM. He is dating because she DUMPED HIM for another man. She abandoned the marriage. She can't very well demand something of him she does not practice herself.

This is a MAN, not her b*tch, who should make himself available when she tires of her OM and decides to be a wife.

ML,

If jk's husband wants to move on, that's fine, but he doesn't. He told her he didn't want to get divorced. He has been having SF with her. He is having a revenge A. She shouldn't have to be his doormat because she made a mistake (no matter if it was once or twice, but we all know it was the same mistake, it just never ended). If he wants to date other women, that's fine, he can get a D. My guess is that he won't, however, and the longer jk let's this thing go on, the more her WH (that's right, I called him a WH) and OW will get caught up in this thing. I think you are leading jk into dangerous territory by telling her to just allow this to happen and hope he takes her back.

Don't you think my WW dumped me? Well, she never officially dumped me because I pay most of the bills and OM moved far away, but she told me she wanted a D and was looking for jobs and apartments in Boston. She just thought she'd stay here with me in the house I was paying the mortgage on until she saved up enough money for a D and a moved and found a new job. She still won't be intimate with me. I crave every day for female attention. I desperately crave to feel wanted by the opposite sex. When a girl starts flirting with me, it is extremely hard to ignore. Don't you think that I could justify my own A? Why don't you think long and hard about your advice to jk before you just tell her to allow it to happen?

jk, I still stick by my advice. If you want to save your M, you need to fight to get back in the house and expose to OW that your WH still doesn't want a D and has been having SF with you. This will piss him off, but he won't be fooling around with her anymore. If he divorces you, he divorces you, but you don't have to stay in limbo forever while he screws around on you.

I agree with ML and frankly Jim, if asked, I would advise you to handle your sitch in a very different fashion. To each his own though. Your advice is valuable as is Mel's.

Jim, please put on your thinking cap and think long and hard about this: HE DOES NOT NEED HER PERMISSION. All this talk about "allowing" him to have an affair is foolish talk that will get her nowhere, because she has NO POWER to "allow" him to do anything. SHE ABANDONED THE MARRIAGE FOR ANOTHER MAN. So, please understand he doesn't need her permission.

She FORFEITED her right to make any demands as a wife when she abandoned him and the marriage for her OM TWICE. Just because she has decided she wants him to be her b*tch again, does not mean he has to come running. Or should come running.

Interfering in his affair after she has abandoned the marriage will get her nowhere except LAUGHED AT. It might irritate him a little, but that is about it.

What she needs to do is ATTRACT him back and make herself appealing as marriage material. She needs to demonstrate TRUST. Being an annoying, demanding hypocrite will not achieve that. As it is now, he does not consider her marriage material. As he shouldn't. She needs to demonstrate that she is a viable option. Until that happens, he would be WISE to ignore her as he is.

Jim - it may well be a revenge affair. But that doesn't change anything. jk is a serial cheat. Mel has given her excellent advice.

Her H can do whatever he pleases at this point.

Her H is still her H and should be slapped upside the head for betraying his vows as well. If he wants to date, get a D. She has every right to tell him not to fool around, AS LONG AS HE IS STILL MARRIED TO HER!

She abandoned him for another man, Jim. She abandoned her marriage. Did you miss that part? She foreited her prerogative as a wife when she dumped him for her OM. When you abandon your family you are no longer entitled to any say.

She needs to demonstrate respect for him and the marriage along with a compelling demonstration of trustworthy behavior before he should even CONSIDER taking her back.

This man deserves some say in his own life. If they reconcile, it should be only because he decides that it is in his best interest to take that step. He deserves the right to make that decision after she has dumped him for another man.

How is barging back in after she has dumped him for an OM, demonstrating respect? Just because she WANTS him back does not mean it is the best thing FOR HIM. Jim, I think it is absolutely irresponsible of you to tell her to just move back in. That may not be in HIS best interest as she may not be a viable option for him. She has to REGAIN TRUST before he should ever consider taking her back.

If she does follow your terrible advice to just barge like in and demand to be treated as a wife after she forfeited that role, I hope to God he calls the police on her [censored] and has her arrested for trespassing. I can't think of anything more outrageously disrespectful than to think she can just barge back in at her pleasure after she has abandoned him for her affair.

Jim... you place a little too much significance in a piece of paper that in some states is now even given to gay couples! Bottom line is she left the marriage repeatedly and he really doesn't have to answer to her any longer. She has no right to tell him anything... she can ask... but her rights to tell him anything ended when she left him over and over for another man. He has a right to make decisions about his own life right now... and can do as he pleases...his WW does not need to let that impact HER personal boundaries... she can choose not to sleep with him or spend time with him...heck, she can even begin divorce proceeding. The thing is, she needs to set up her own personal boundaries for HER... not for HIM. He will decide for himself what is in his best interests right now... and if that means dating while separated.... that is his call imo.