Jim... you handled the situation with Lostsheep in the same fashion and frankly your suggestions were VERY disrespectful to her BH. In that case there was a WW that actually said that she didn't know if she would go back to the OM if she were given the chance.... she had cheated for four years and left him alone for over a year... YET YOU CALLED HIM A WH. Frankly that is destructive and so off base. He was a man trying to pick up the pieces of his life and decided to start living....
YOU even suggested that she stop a divorce proceeding that was weeks away from wrapping up and put the burden on her oft BH to divorce this still WW if he chose to do so.
Frankly I am shocked at your advice to this poster as I was to Lostsheep.

MEDC is right. It is totally his call. Dating while separated and not divorced is unwise IMO but it is HIS CALL.

I am confused ML!I have been trying to get my H back for the last three months and had NC with the other man!I ended my A over 5 months ago!My H has told me several times in the last few months that he wants to work things out then sleeps with me and quits calling for a while!And why is it ok for him to lie to me about the OW but sleep with me and tell me he dosen't want a D and is working on getting back to our M!If he is done with our M and wants to be with someone else shouldn't he tell me and get a D?Why is what he is doing not considered cheating?He is still M and telling me to give him time!But you are right about taking the hard stance,it only pisses him off!I told him today that I was sorry for lecturing him and that I had no right cuz my actions were what got us into this predicament!Then I told him to have a great day!He actually thanked me and reassured me that he was not dating anyone and if he was I would be the first to know!A big difference from the disrespect I got yesterday!

And I think you are all right,although I don't feel I am a serial cheater since I have never cheated on anyone before in my life and my A was with the same person,I just went back and forth cuz I still loved my H was was very confused!Anyway,I know it is my H call whether he has a RA or not and I wouldn't be dealing with this if I had not had an A myself!Although I don't really think it is right for him to sleep with me and get my hopes up by telling me to give him time if he is involved with someone else!I don't believe two wrongs make a right and it will only further complicate things!But that is his decision and I realize that!And I also agree that barging back into the house might be a bit much right now,even though one of my IC's suggested the same,the other disagreed!I definitely think that I need to keep working on myself and making myself look like a more attractive choice for him again!But I don't feel I should let him take advantage of my guilt and use me for sex!

JKS,

What Mel, MEDC and others are trying to say is simply this.

Your H is NOT here. Therefore none of us are giving him advice.

It does not matter if your H is right or wrong in his having an A. Why? Because this discussion is about YOU, not him.

You have about three options right now. File for divorce yourself. Just step back and continue what you are doing, probably leading to divorce. Or you can realize that divorce is likely but that you will take the high road and show him the kind of woman you now are, some one he would like to spend his life with.

Frankly, my advice would differ from Mel's only slightly. I would recommend that you withdraw (very much as your H has asked). Don't call him, don't email him, and don't see him for sex especially if you don't want it. If you are called by him, be nice, be cheery, be pleasant, but ask no questions of him, and really don't volunteer any information he does not ask for.

You need to realize what IHE said and that is he feels no obligation to do anything but use you for sex when he wants to. Is it right? No! Is it understandable given how he has been treated? Yes! Withdraw from that game. It may end your marriage, or you may decide to end the marriage if his behavior continues, but it is possible that he will see what he is doing and make a different decision.

You really have no control over your H's decisions, just like he had no control over yours. You chose to hurt him, betray him, lie to him, ignore him. He is chosing to violate his own morals, his own vows, and what he knows it right. That will be his problem, if he divorces you and marries GF, that will be HER problem as well. Why? He will carry a lot of baggage into that marriage, baggage handed to him by you.

If you can do anything for him, why not try to lift some of that baggage from his arms. This is a tough situation. It will take time to resolve and you have only been at it for 3 months. Have patience, keep yourself focused on your goals, and back off for awhile.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

You were working in the same gym as the OM as recently as TWO WEEKS AGO, so as far your H should be concerned nc did not take place until then. And then, he only has your word. Trust has to be EARNED, it is not an entitlement.

And no, it is not ok that your H is cheating, but you dumped him. So that is HIS business, not yours. When you abandoned the marriage, you abandoned your prerogative as a wife. You get no say in his life, and you are especially in no position to lecture him about cheating.

As far as telling you he wasn't ready to end the marriage, I have no doubt that he is lining up someone else to take your place so the divorce will come down easier while he slowly withdraws from you.

This is why I have suggested that you present yourself as a VIABLE alternative by demonstrating to him that you have changed into viable marriage material. Right now all he knows is that you can't be trusted and you will harm him in the worst possible way. That picture must be changed in order for him to be willing to reconcile.

I think your best bet of getting him back is to work on changing yourself and proving to him you have changed. In an attractive way.

I amazes me how hypocritical some BSs are. It seems to me that if you cheat first, you are at the whim of your BS. Her H has made his decision. He has told her that he doesn't want to get divorced and has chosen to re-engage in SF with his FWW. Of course, he could move on with his life, but that is not what he has chosen to do. Instead, he has chosen to stay with his FWW but have an A of his own. And you advise her to just stand around and let him get deeper into the fog. I guess in your mind, once you cheat you are a slave to your betrayed spouse. I wonder what some FWWs that post here would think of your advice. Some of you BSs are in your own fog. You are using the pain of your own betrayal as justification for jk's WH to date other women while he wants to stay married. How hypocritical is that?

jk, I would talk to your H and tell him that you want to move back in. If he won't allow it, then force your way back in. Tell the OW that your WH is still sleeping with you. After the dust settles, get into MC with the Harley's and fix your M. If you doubt this is the way to go, call Dr. Harley up on his radio show today and ask his advice.

uh Jim, what is hypocritical is demanding fidelity from a spouse you have dumped for another man. She can make all the demands she wants, it will fall on deaf ears. She cannot demand the prerogatives of a wife when she has abandoned that role for her affair.

Secondly, who says it is in his best interest to be back with her? You are telling her to just move back in as if that is the best thing for HIM. As far as I am concerned, she needs to demonstrate some real change before he even considers reconciliation. She needs to demonstrate trustworthy behavior and EARN his trust.

This is what we are advising her. To work on changing the things about herself that led to her affair so that she will become viable marriage material. But he has a right to make the choice about reconciliation since it was SHE who abandoned him.

She will get nowhere barging in there like a cowboy demanding the rights of a wife after she has dumped him for her OM. That will get nowhere except maybe ARRESTED for trespassing!

Would it be hypocritical for my wife to demand fidelity from me? Do I have a get some sex free card that I can cash out at any time? After all, it would be hypocritical for her to complain.


I am trying to advise her on what is best for her M, not him or her. Her H dating another woman is not best for her M. I personally believe it would be better for the two of them for her H to get a D right now than for him to date around while his W is working toward reconciliation.

I'd like to see the police arrest a wife for breaking into her marital house. However, I'm not advocating that. I'm telling her to tell her H that she wants to move back in, and if he doesn't want her to, find a lawyer that will get her back in. It's called tough love. They need counseling and to not date other people if their M is to survive.

jk, I am going to leave your thread since Jim has chosen this venue to throw a temper tantrum and it is not helpful to your situation. I think you understand that barging back in like a badass cowboy is not going to help your situation and I surely hope you don't take that bad advice. Jim is young and new here and means well, but the cowboy approach will probably land you in jail.

I really do wish you well and hope it all works out for you. Take care. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Where the he11 did I tell her to break into her home? Quit making crap up because you don't agree with me. And I guess I'm stupid because I'm young?

jmwc95 wrote #3202679 - 03/13/07 03:42 :

oh no? Well, I am glad to hear you ARE NOT advising her to FORCE her way back into his home after she has moved out and abandoned the marriage for an OM. I am relieved to hear that, Jim and certainly would not want to misrepresent your position.....

JK,

Here's my two cents on this.

Yes, two wrongs do not make a right. Having a relationship while still married is not right. I know it hurts to be in your situation, but as some of the others have said, your abandonment of your now-WH is a major factor in all this.

So, what now? I would advise you continue working on you and doing exactly what the others are advising in regards to becoming a viable alternative. As ML said, if you were still working with OM two weeks ago you need to re-deepen your commitment to the MB principles and bring your Plan A Game to top form. That means truly committing to NC yourself, with YOU as the judge, and giving it some time.

You need to continue working on yourself, gaining strength, and meeting what needs you can when you can. Stay consistent in your approach, demonstrate patience, and keep busy. I don't agree with continuing to have SF with WH at this point, that's my personal opinion on the matter. It has the effect, as demonstrated by your posts, of making you feel like a doormat. No one here believes that you should be made to feel like a doormat, I certainly don't think you deserve to be "punished" for your actions. It's up to you to make yourself the spouse you want to be for him. If you do that, and let time do it's thing, then you will be in a much better place.

No, don't barge into his house. Don't demand anything, you go hard-line on WH and you already know what will happen. Ultimatums NEVER work on the foggy. Stay the course, be happy with exactly the way things are, and get happy with yourself.

Are you happy with yourself? Once YOU know that YOU are a better person, a better wife, and that you are doing everything you can to save your M you will feel 1000% better about the path you are on. You need to get there JK.
This vicious cycle of "Oh, good. She's still there. I'll go have SF with her and bounce back to OW" thinking that WH has about things will NOT save your marriage. A WH respects a strong woman with dignity, as much as a WW will respect a strong man who possesses the same. Walking the line between being contrite for your past actions but retaining your dignity is key to your recovery as a strong woman.

Get strong and stay the course. Stay in Plan A. Don't be clingy or needy, I sense you may be coming across as such to him. Stop.

Best wishes for your success,

Jay

ok,

back into your corners guys(lol)

jim..............i agree with you and ML i strongly agree with you.Standing out of the picture i see the perfrct combination of why BH becomes WH and how jk wants to become FWW.

Jk,
I am glad you woke up...........i am really happy that you woke up.

Did you wake up too late?..........only time will tell.

lets get one thing straight.

Vows are to be honored.Irrespective of what happens.H are H by definition......not because of what a W does. and the same vice versa. Now jk You have chosen to murder your H emotionally then to torture him for months on end....While you were still his W.

Your orgasmmm belong to your H alone , and you shared this with a stranger. out of over 6 billion people..the gift that only belonged to you H you gave to a stranger. You justify it with all manner of things then continue to emasculate him.

jk i am NOT coming down on you........you just need to see how this affects him. i mean to really sit down and understand this............i too am betrayed, and as i write with tears, i ask of you not to think that we are just trying to "jump" down your troat............What you are experiencing now is only but a fraction of the he11 he probably went thru.

Now you want to fix it..........only after what, when he found someone else?....no? then when?

H is wrong in what he is doing now....no doubt about that. You are right..........that isnt debatable.

But ask yourself.....the words you use now to him...didnt you hear them before? .........while you took "wife of absence?"

He learnt that he couldnt force you to choose your vows or his way........it took months. Now you may just understand as well that you cant choose his decisions.

He is hurting, make no bones about it. But he is wrong! he should seek a D before carrying out this detestable act..sharing his orgasmmmmmm with a stranger.

Marriage should be filled with grace.Not revenge.

but make no bones about it jk......you hurt him.......beyond what you could even now conceive. I dont think he believe that you have acknowledged it. Your actions to HIM, what he sees proves this.

My advice.from a BS point of view? ....pray, be patient,and stop the "i want.........."

see first what you have done. change it. become a different character. the one he fell in love with in first time.

and accept the judgment of life.

Fight for your marriage........in love. God makes no demands of you to folows him. Its your free will.

wish you well.

Praying for you.

Wow, you are right, I did tell her to do something illegal there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Jayban, she and OM both work out at the same gym, but they work out at different times of day and never see each other. ML wisely pointed out that she should find another gym. It's not like the A just ended 2 weeks ago. Legally depending on what state she lives in, her H could not divorce her on grounds of infidelity because he had sex with her after full disclosure of the A. In my mind, sleeping with her several times and telling her that he didn't want a D constitutes forgiveness of adultery and they are on even legal ground.

And to say "well, she dumped her H for OM" like it didn't happen to me is insulting. My WW didn't "officially" dump me, she just told me she wanted a D, spent our marital $ to go visit OM, and was looking for jobs and apartments 1000 mi away while I paid all our bills. Trust me, I know what it is like. Infidelity is immoral and should not be tolerated regardless of the circumstance.

jk

I guess you are confused a bit by now? I do hope you have got the best of all that was said though.

SF if it is not given willingly, & sometimes during recovery attempts it may not be wonderful for some time, thats different from willingness, then yes its better not to offer or accept a request for it. Because he would pick it up right away. If you feel that uneasy about it then don't offer nor be pushed into it. But being the way I felt your H was feeling it was why I suggested you keep making love with your H even if for him it was only sex. To be brutal, better being with you than finding another girl. Have you missed that opportunity? maybe.

Its quite obvious, right or wrong doesn't matter, that your H feels you abandoned him and has at least in part moved on. BUT I still feel from your descriptions of his behaviour he still has some link to you. Some remote affection. BUT HE DOESN'T TRUST YOU>
Lots of good advice given on how to build that up.

I know from my own experience jk that if I had 'forced' or barged my opinions or self into my H face at the time I was trying to win him back he would have been gone like a Bondi tram. It would have been all over red rover. IT HAS TO BE HIS CHOICE.

You see, you and I took a big risk when we left our M. I've been lucky, don't know if you will be but you will have no chance if you don't stop being in his face in what he sees as an annoying manner.

I feel the advice of letting him see your actions and every now & then letting him know you are there is your only chance. Right now he most likely feels he can live without you, he's proven it to himself.

If it took you a year & 3 months to be where you are now its likely to take him 2 or up to 3 years for him to recover.... if he chooses to let you into his life again.

Just take your time, don't let impatience wreck possible future opportunities

all the best jk

I agree that they are on even legal ground, and Jim certainly has a point about the SF the two of you have had. It doesn't improve my opinion of your WH at the moment. That doesn't seem the "bigger person" thing to do for WH, but what we all agree on is that infidelity is wrong in the first place. Waywards do the worst things, and as Mulan says, remember that a wayward cares nothing for your pain.

Trying to understand what he has gone through is good advice, something to include in your overall Plan A.

I don't believe that forcing yourself (in any way) upon someone who is wayward (and believe me, a WS thinks the littlest thing you do is either controlling, smothering, or worse) will bring about positive results.

Be patient and keep working at it jk!

When a man is made a cockold of by his wife by having sex with an OM any number of times....then resuming that adulterous relationship after trying to make her BH believe it was over...he is going to have his ego badly hurt. He may feel the need to retaliate or to have a revenge A partly to lash out at you, hurt you...make you know how it felt to him...and partly to try to help his ego.

I am not saying it is right or helpful to his healing....I think it just shows just how hurt he was and is not really thinking clearly.

He may have started to move on but really wanted to stay married to you but he messed up by getting involved with someone else and thinks he needs a way to back out of it without hurting the other woman very much....because if she knew how he was feeling she'd feel a bit used...being in a rebound relationship with him.

It isn't as simple as saying that he is now a WH...technically he is....because you are still married. I am not sure that taking a tough stand is going to help your case at this point....kind of pot calling the kettle black. I say do what you can to plan A...but you may need to start DV proceedings. That way he can face his own demons and sooner see just what he is willing to lose.

Sorry I was off until now looks like a lot of posts. Jim you are entitled to your opinion and I mean no disrespect towards you or anyone.

I just don't agree that she gets to be a wife now after she thru away her husband. Lets face it marriages can be destroyed at anytime on any day. People wake up every day and destroy their spouse. It is a choice people make and I think that people should be held accountable.

She has been very selfish her whole marriage. I think she just posted recently that she needs attention. She got that attention from another man and betrayed her husband. Now it seems to me that since her husband moved on that she needs the attention again.

All of a sudden after she had her new man and her H moved on she was probably not getting attention from her H. So now that she is not getting the attention-- she wants him back. It looks like to me she still has the same problem of needing attention.

This makes sense to me. When I was trying to prevent my wife from treating me like crap and cheating on me she was a bi!ch! When I cut her lose and told her I didn't want her or need her she came flying back to me. How many times do you see on this site when someone gives up here comes the wayward spouse coming around trying to draw them back in.

There really is no commitment if she can discard her husband and then when she is done with her boyfriend she can demand that he come back to her. What happens when she sees the OM again? They were hot and heavy for each other do you think that cannot happen again? What about another OM who comes along and gives her attention?

I guess what I am saying is she needs to show she has changed. That she is not the same old selfish person that she was.

JK- You put your H thru this for a year. What if your H decided to sleep with other women for a year? If you were able to do it why shouldn't he go sleep with other women for a year and then when he is done with his fun maybe he can come to you and demand that you should drop everything in your life and be his wife again. You may move on in that time, it wouldn't be a surprise if you did.

I think JL had it right and ML. Don't have sex with him if you do not want to. But do have sex with him if you want to. You should understand that if you don't he may think you are getting it somewhere else or he may go somewhere else.

I realize your tired of this but imagine what your husband went thru with you. I cannot stress enough how emasculating it was for my wife to sleep with another man. There is nothing more cruel or evil she could have done. And she could kiss a hundred guys and I would have taken her back but the second she did the dirty deed our marriage ended.

You have to show him you are a new woman. You are kind and only think of him and are fun to be around. Normally I think that you should play hardball with a cheating spouse but you did lethal damage to your marriage. You must have known when you left him for the OM your marriage was over. If I were him I would run unless you proved that you were a new woman. Again, just my humble opinion.

IHE,

I respect your opinion, but I would like to point out that her husband has not moved on. He has told jk that he does not intend to divorce her, and has even engaged in SF with her on several occasions. He then blows her off to be with OW. Now, if he filed for D and had nothing to do with jk, I would cut him some slack, but that is not the path he has chosen.