So TFC and I are in similar situations and people are telling her that if her H is having an A she needs to expose it so that she can work on her M!I personally have no proof that my H is dating,but I suspect it!How can him dating be good for our M?Me having an A wasn't!Granted I have no control over what he does,but he has not chosen to get a D!Don't you think that he will just continue to have his cake and eat it too if I never say anything and allow him to go out and behave single while we are still M!Truthfully,I think that's why my A lasted as long as it did!I knew he was just sitting aroung waiting for me!It wasn't til I saw him starting to get on with his life that I woke up,cuz I knew if I didn't I would lose him and that scared the crap out of me!

JKS-

I haven't posted on your thread because I don't want to come in here and cause an uproar.

But bluntly, while you DID have an affair and it definitely led to the situation your marriage is in right now, it doesn't change the dynamics for how you deal with your H's affair. That's my opinion...obviously other feel differently.

Personally, I think that your husband has no right to have an affair. We've ALL said in the past that THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR AN AFFAIR. There was NO EXCUSE for your affair. It hurt your H horribly...I can't begin to go on and on with that. BUT...there is NO EXCUSE for him choosing to have an affair either. Others seem to feel he's justified in sleeping around on you and doing this to you because you did it to him first...I don't buy into that mentality.

You need to brush up on plan A, and plan B, and work those just as anyone else who's caught in a BS position. You need to recognize that your own situation was created by what you've done, and that does change the feelings your WH has...but regardless, he's in an affair and you treat affairs with plan A and plan B.

Once you get him to end his affair and you BOTH start to move into recovery...THEN you can deal with the ramifications of BOTH of you having affairs. But you won't get there if you don't get him to end his affair to begin with.

Last thought for you...as a FWW, you need to realize that you may have hurt your H to the point where marital recovery isn't possible. At some point, you may have to 'let go', and realize that it was in a large part due to your waywardness and the hurt you caused him.

I know that many other people aren't going to agree with my slant on this...that's their choice. Here's my advice to you, based off the MB principles we've all been applying here. Why would she do anything differently just because she was wayward first? That doesn't change the value of the plan(s) used every day on this site. It just means she's going to have a much lower chance of success, and a much more difficult road to recovery if she does get the chance to succeed. But it DOESN'T mean she should just sit on her tuckus and let her husband run rampant in his own affair. NO AFFAIR IS EVER JUSTIFIED. If he wants to be with someone else, he should file for D, just the same as anyone else, regardless of what led him to this point.

TFC is still residing with her H... your H does not live with you any longer. You have NO right to interfere in his life unless he lets you know he wishes to have you back. At this point he is free to date if he so chooses. If he were living with you, I would tell you otherwise. But right now, IMO, he is free to date as he pleases. I personally think he has a right to make his own choices now...as do you as far as divorce. IMO, you are going to look awfully foolish exposing this "affair" which the vast majority of people will not consider an affair in the first place. You cheated... you pushed your H away repeatedly... frankly, if I were the person you were exposing to, I would have no time for you at all.
ML and I are probably some of the most anti affair people that you will ever meet. Yet, both of us have told you we feel your H has a right to make his own choices. If you can't convince two BS that are ALWAYS in the corner of fidelity that your H is doing anything wrong, imagine what you are up against.

MEDC

Owl - SHE abandoned the marriage and moved out. HE is moving on with his life. THIS is not an affair as such.

YOU may think he should be divorced before dating (as would be my view) but clearly he doesn't believe that and he is entitled to his own opinion about that matter.

And you know I am very anti-affair!

As I am in a similar situation, I am curious to know: What do you say about his repeated comments that he has no plan to divorce her? Wouldn't that make this separation just time to sort things through? So if there are no plans for the M ending, wouldn't that constitute an affair?

The marriage IS effectively ended. They are not reconciling and he's made it pretty clear he wants NC with her.

In which case, does she give up? If he is seeing someone, and the M is over why doesn't he just say so? Or is he wanting for her to continue to fight for the M?

I agree with TFC!Considering wat you're saying should I just give up,or sit back and wait for him to decide if he wants to be M?And if the M has ended why dosen't he go get a D?How is it benefitting him to say M?I told him I wanted to work our M out and so if he didn't feel the same he would have to get a D?He told me a coouple weeks ago that there was still hope,but the fact that he is completely ignoring me has me confused!Why would he continue being M to me if he is done?Why isn't he pushing me to come get my stuff out of the house, and why wouldn't he just tell me he wants to date someone else cuz that would definitely let me know he's done!I told him in the past that if he got involved with someone else i didn't think our M could survive it!Ther's only so much damage a M can handle!If he wants to test the waters without getting completely involved with someone else I guess he deserves that chance,but if he gets completely involved then I have no chance!Please help!

He is doubtless conflicted. You are doing what you can to win him back. But it is not your right to insist on anything. I think MEDC has given you some excellent advice.

Your mistake is in thinking you can shame him or are in a position to demand anything of him.

JK... as I did with TFC, I am going to bow out of your sitch now. I wish you the best of luck and hope that your H makes a decision to do what is best for him and hopefully your M. I get the impression that you and TFC are feeding off of one another here. You continue to ask the same questions again and again... perhaps someone here will give you information that will ring true with you. IMO, you have gotten the same advice for some of the most anti affair people you will find on this site. When BK, ML, Mr & Mrs. W all agree on something concerning infidelity, I would take heed. They have been down the tough roads. When you start saying that you agree with TFC it appears as though you are doing so because she is saying what you want to hear. She certainly does not have the experience of the people listed above. When I needed advice upon arrival here, I turned to people that didn't say what I wanted to hear... they said what I needed to hear. I have told both you and TFC in previous posts (and your situations are not that similar... you had a long term affair and left your H repeatedly) that your maturity regarding this issue is certainly in question...as was mine when I showed up here. IMO, you are making the BIG mistake that you brought upon your M even bigger with your current attitude and lack of patience.
I have offered all that I can in terms of advice to you... so again, I will wish you well and take my leave.

MEDC

needless to say, these are extremely trying times for all of us.

Double infidelity is THE worst case scenario. It is difficult enough with one wayward spouse in a marriage, let alone two.

Chance of success is extremely low.

The only chance we really have is God. A miracle.

JK and TimeforChange, I will pray for you guys as well as myself.

Then the advice we should be giving is telling her to give up and file for divorce?

I thought marriage ended when the D was final? Prior to that, they're still married. If one of them checks out and starts dating...that's still an affair. Regardless of how they got to that point.

I would agree that I don't give JKS great odds for recovery here...don't take me wrong. But I'm going to have to disagree with everyone here...they're still married, and if she's wanting to try to rebuild her R with her H, that's her choice. If her WS (and he IS a WS) decides not to do so, there's not going to be much she can do.

Given all of that...why would we NOT tell her to follow the MB plan for recovering a marriage from infidelity?

JKS, call SH see if he can put together a plan for you.

In the mean time, I encourage you to continue focusing on yourself.

Forgive yourself for what you've done. That alone will go a long way in your own personal recovery.

Press hard to find your highest honesty in IC.

Take a cooking class, photography, pottery...something creative. Creating is a wonderful outlet. Plus it will give you a chance to meet new people... make new female friends.

Take the energy you have that you want to put into your M and put it into yourself. B/c THAT really is an investment in your M... whether it is in your present one or a future M.

Please let us know how your appointment w/ SH goes.

~ Marsh

jksmith,

Yes, PLEASE call SH and get some advice as to how to proceed NOW! You've wasted several weeks doing nothing. Hopefully he will solve this debate once and for all. If you want to save your M, you have to DO something first. No excuses, I want you to tell me that you made an appointment with SH TODAY! I'm rooting for you, but you need to start acting and quit being paralyzed by fear. You are a deer in the headlights right now. The car is coming. Get out of the way!

Now THAT is probably the best possible advice you can get, JKS!

And MM's advice is great too...part of plan A is taking care of YOURSELF!

Thanks guys for all your support!MEDC says taht I keep asking the same questions,and yes they may be the same,but my situation keeps changing!At first my H was talking to me on a weekly basis and spending time with me!Now I haven't heard from him in weeks and he won't even respond to a txt that has nothing to do with our relationship!I keep waiting to hear or find out that he is dating someone,but still have no proof!He promised me I would be the first to know and my mom thinks I should trust that he will and just give him his time and space to figure out what he wants!It's going on four months now,and the only change I have seen is for the worst!I know I have no control over his behavior,but I do over mine and I am tired of avoiding the situation cuz it is getting me nowhere,but I am very scared and have lost my strong confident self in this mess!I would love to talk with SH but it is very expensive,but I will try!I know I need to be patient in this situation,and my H was for a year,but like I have said before,I only woke up when I saw him get strong and move on,maybe that's what he needs,maybe not,but obviously what I'm doing is not helping and I am miserable and completely obsessed!I truly never imagined my H would be like this after how he was last year,but he probably never thought I would do what I did,and I never did either!What I wouldn't give for my life back and a second chance!And I have been trying so hard to focus on myself and healing and somedays i feel good,but most days all I think about is my H and get depressed!

JKS... your last post is indicative of the reason I suggested Obsessive Love by Susan Forward (and Craig Buck).

If you can't afford a session why don't you try calling in to the radio show like I did yesterday? It may at least make you feel a bit more in control and give you at least 1 step to take. Just a suggestion.

JKS,

I second the idea that you call the radio show.

And would you mind breaking your posts up into paragraphs? Much easier to read.

~ Marsh

TFC,did you tell SH your story and then he gave you advice,or did you just ask what to do based on how your H is acting?Did you tell them your name?What did they tell you?