Feelings aren't always rational or based on reality.

Feelings just ARE. My feelings are MINE, they are neither right nor wrong, they just are how I feel. Period.

My sponsor used to tell me that my feelings were facts that I could take into consideration when making a decision about my reaction, but that my feelings should not be considered the TRUTH.

Most of us got our marriages into trouble because we followed our feelings...or instincts.

That didn't help us much did it?

Fact: Your husband has 'romantic in love feelings' for RT.

That's how he feels, rightly or wrongly.

Does that mean he is RIGHT to follow through on those feelings? Heck no.

Is it real love? I'd say NO to that too.

Real love is a choice and an action. Your husband is not behaving with real love to RT. He is acting like a selfish jerk, using RT to get a "in love" fix.

Not only is this absolutely a TRUTH, but feelings are also slippery little devils, subject to change.

[color:"purple"]Just for the record, I’m going to be extremely busy this week and probably don’t have time to continue this discussion. But I trust that there are plenty of other folks who can fill in the gaps….[/color]


noodle ~ I am talking about her husband's perception. You may not like or agree with his perception. But it is what it is. No one here is justifying his reaction (the affair). My terminology is NOT "runaway" as you put it, I used that word very precisely. You might not agree - thats ok.

I was not refering specifically to your terminology but to blurred terminology in general. Just because you FEEL betrayed doesn't mean you have BEEN betrayed. Part of the road back from WSville is to learn to distinguish between your feelings and perceptions and the facts.

[color:"green"]Agree with you 100% here.[/color]

Further I doubt very much that he DOES feel betrayed. We give faaaaar too much credit to the idea that poor WS was just a suffering quivering mass of unmet needs prior to their affair.

Frankly I think it's bullsh*t 99% of the time.

[color:"green"]Now I have to disagree. And I can assure you that my marriage would NOT be recovered had I felt that way. My husband WAS desperate - he was angry and resentful and felt ENTITLED to commit adultery because it just wasn't FAIR that he live committed to a woman who not only failed to meet his needs, but often lovebusted him into a deep red lovebank balance.

Did I mean to do it? NO. Did I know what I was doing? NO. Were my motives to help my marriage? YES.

Did that matter? NO.

What mattered was that my behavior, intentionally or not, left my husband feeling hurt, betrayed and needy. HIS PERCEPTIONS MATTERED.

Was he really entitled? NO. Did he FEEL entitled? YES. Did his entitlement cause his affair? YES. Was his feeling REAL? Yes. Was his feeling right? NO.

But the bottom line was, he had some damn legit gripes against me that had to be acknowledged and addressed. (And I did it while the affair was still on, WITH Dr. Harley's approval).[/color]

Everyone goes through periods of dissatisfaction and everyone has to deal with the fact that people sometimes disappoint us and sometimes they disappoint us consistently because they just are not able to deliver what we need at the moment.

Boo frickedy hoo let's haul out the violins.

[color:"green"]Dr. Harley doesn't quite think it is so easily dismissed: [/color]

[color:"green"]And further in the article Dr. Harley writes: [/color]


What we had here was a fairly satisfied man in an average marriage. Were there some areas that could be improved...sure...but you don't see HIM posting here seeking them out do you?

Was he on his knees begging for guidance and help?

Seeking counseling?

Nah. He didn't even KNOW he was unhappy until his marriage had to compete with his drug.

[color:"green"]Noodle, you don’t KNOW if he was or was not happy – that’s quite a presumptuous statement. And let me remind you, we are talking about his perception, HIS FEELING of betrayal. That is an entirely different topic than “Was his REACTION to his feelings wrong or right?” It is also entirely a separate topic from, did LilSis or any other well intentioned BS that failed to love and cherish break a vow?

What I said below still stands: [/color]

He FEELS betrayed. Feelings are not truths, they just ARE. He feels that LilSis did NOT keep her promise, and I am willing to bet that his hurt and pain at this broken promise fed his growing sense of entitlement. It is a powerful insight to WHY he was vulnerable to having an affair.

Again, going to have to disagree with you. I think it's a line of bull. I think it is willfull revisionist history and attempts to rationalize and justify continuing to do what he knows is wrong. He is grasping at straws.

And I think this is a disrespectful judgment.

From the Love Buseters Article:

[color:"green"]Now, do I think LilSis should empathize with his choice to have an affair? Heck no. But I do think, as she works on HERSELF and correcting HER mistakes, that her husband’s FEELINGS about her behavior in the past is completely relevant information. [/color]

She *did* promise to love and cherish and he married her with the expectation that he WOULD RECIEVE love and cherishing from the relationship.

Have we seen her fail to love and/or cherish him? I would say not. Generally it is the case with WSs that BOTH parties were more or less satsified while ignorant until one of them got a taste of the forbidden fruit and only THEN do they say..where have you been all my life beautifull?

[color:"green"]I agree with you that there are WSes for which the above is true. But “generally!?!?!” Show me where in Dr. Harley’s articles where he says anything of the sort. In fact, he says something else entirely. I would be willing to bet that LilSis’ situation is ho-hum run of the mill adultery in a marriage without any other fundamental underlying issues like drug or alcohol addiction.

Did she intend not to love and cherish him? I am sure that she had nothing but the best of intentions. Was she a good wife? I am sure she was. Did she succeed at meeting all of his needs? He says she did not and she has stated that there definitely WERE things she had neglected.

So why the rush to blow off his words as fog? She needs to LISTEN TO HIM. Does she need to agree or believe every bloody stupid fogged word out of his mouth? NO. But she needs to LISTEN and he needs to be HEARD.

As long as I insisted on my own personal RIGHTNESS in our marriage, there was no hope for real recovery. As long as I wrapped myself in the flag of victimhood and proudly proclaimed MY virtue and my husband’s FAULTs, I had no chance for my marriage.[/color]


He made a life long commitment to LilSis with the understanding that LilSis would love and cherish him.

I would say that she has delivered in that promise.

[color:"green"]But he does not. And it is HIS opinion that counts, not yours. [/color]

She did not deliver the (from his POV).

He is comparing his marriage to his addiction…she can not deliver that reaction.

[color:"green"]My response below still applies…[/color]

Does fog blow that out of proportion and make it worse than it was? Yes. But that does not mean that everything he says is false.

It means that his entire perception is skewed...and yes in a sense it does render it false.

[color:"green"]So now we resort to rewriting the history of the marriage so the BS can avoid responsibility? I’m sorry, but it is flat out disrespectful to just flat out deny what the WS has to say about his experiences in the marriage. Does the BS have to believe it all? NO. But should the BS listen and attempt to discern fact from fiction instead of just writing it all off to fog? YES.

When my husband complained that I was psycho, I completely discounted it.

Revisionist history! I claimed.

And yet later…when I see my behavior in through his eyes….OH MY GOD. I did look psycho. I certainly did not resemble the woman he married.

Was I really psycho – no. I was reacting to my own pain and fear and my taker was out of control trying to wrest what I needed from him. But my husband’s perception was “psycho” and it certainly was a rather appropriate description.

The way I see it:

BS is responsible for 100% of her part in the marriage.
WS is responsible for 100% of his part in the marriage.

WS is responsible for 100% of his choice to have an affair.[/color]

What he thinks he needs and what he actually needs have a large gulf between them.

[color:"green"]While fogged out, of course that is the case. It will take work in recovery before he sorts that out. But what he needs right now is to KNOW that LilSis will listen, LilSis will respect and consider and even adapt to meet his needs. He needs to know she is SAFE.

And before you get disgusted at me for that last statement – it comes right from Steve Harley’s instructions to me.[/color]

Some betrayals are worse than others. It is still a betrayal. (Thats why in the legal system, there are DEGREEs of crimes).

I disagree with assigning the term betrayal to anything that was not willfull and treacherous. You don't accidentally betray someone by ignorance or mishap.

[color:"green"]I did not call it an accident.

If you promise to bring home dinner for your family, and then get sidetracked on other things and forget….are you not responsible for breaking the promise? The IMPACT is certainly the same, intentional or not, your loved ones are still sitting at home anticipating a meal that you did NOT deliver. They are still experiencing hunger and frustration from not getting that need met, regardless of your pure intentions.

It doesn’t make you dishonest, or guilty of “Betrayal” with a capital “B” but it does make you an imperfect human being that sometimes fails to keep promises![/color]

I have a huge problem with the constant use of "Fog" to allow BSes to exonerate the BS's contributions to the downfall of the marriage and disrespect the WS. To dismiss LilSis' WH's point of view does not help her marriage.

I disagree. While he is an addict every word that comes out of his mouth is diarrhea, as were the thoughts that preceded them. LS is completely exonerated in any contribution to the affair. Her marriage was NOT an unhappy or neglectful one. The man was seduced, failed to resist and got pulled d*ck first into an emotional entanglement.

[color:"green"]If any BS, not just LilSis, approaches her husband with the attitude that his words are “diarrhea” she is guilty of disrespectful judgments. It certainly is not plan A.

A BS is not entitled to lovebust anymore than a WS is, no matter the justification.

That was yet another lesson I learned while my husband was sleeping with another woman for 18 months. I learned that respecting his right to his opinions did not mean I had to agree or believe them. [/color]

For recovery to happen, the BS must accept responsibility for the damage caused by the BS.

I heartily disagree with this approach. It delivers an entitled WS not a remorsefull one.

[color:"green"]noodle, I am speaking from personal experience; not theory. My honest acceptance of responsibility of the parts that I owned in our marriage was a big factor in what brought my husband home, and it did not bring back an entitled one. It was food for thought during my plan B and delivered a man on my doorstep who said: I will do whatever it takes to fix this. And then he did. We’ve been affair free since 2001. [/color]

Nothing she did or failed to do had jack to do with his temptation or seduction. that responsibility lands squarely on his own shoulders.

[color:"green"]Nothing she did or failed to do caused his choice, I agree completely that the responsibility for his choice is on him totally.. That he was tempted was because he was vulnerable. Why was he vulnerable? Oh wait…you said that is all bullsh*t. [/color]

moving my next sentence to go were it belongs in the discussion


He didn't have an affair because he was hurt. He had an affair because he was weak.

[color:"green"]And the hurt gave him justification for giving into his weakness. I’ll include more from the text I already quote above: [/color]

Her husband is telling her how he was hurt and she needs to "get" that - just as he will need to "get" the pain he caused her.

It goes both ways.

I think that this is quite possibly one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard suggested. It absolutely does NOT go both ways.

[color:"green"]You know what? I have NO clue what you think is so disgusting here. For recovery to succeed, the WS must eventually “get” the pain and suffering they caused. LilSis isn’t to recovery yet, so its not really a point for discussion. For a BS to do a great Plan A, to understand what the emotional needs are that haven’t been met, to understand what lovebusters may have occurred that damaged the marriage, the BS needs to “get” that pain. Let me refer you back to my quote about lovebusters and empathy.

In order for me to do a good plan A, I needed to understand what I had done in creating an environment that led to my husband’s choice to have an affair.

I spent many hours on the phone with my Al-Anon sponsor, who helped ME take responsibility for ME. After I had spent many weeks crying about how UNFAIR it was that I had been a GOOD WIFE AND HOW DARE HE DO THIS TO ME…I finally began to get some insight to what perhaps my part had been in creating a miserable marriage for both of us.

I was horrified when I saw my part. I truly had not understood what I had done to my husband, how I had emasculated him, belittled him, nagged him and drove him away from me. In the height of my arrogance, I disrespectfully thought that I was helping him see the errors of his ways and helping him to be a better man.

Did I intend to betray my vows. NO. Did it feel like a betrayal to my husband? YES.

Was his affair EVER JUSTIFIED? NO NO NO. But was I the wife I should have been? No. Now, I am sure that LilSis was not as bad a wife as I was. I was NOT a healthy individual when I married my husband.

After spending time, working through my 4th and 5th step with my sponsor, I had a better understanding of what my part was. I used that to do a better Plan A, to make the changes I needed to make FOR MYSELF because I never wanted to be a woman who was not the best wife she could be, no matter the outcome of my marriage. I also wrote a letter to my husband, acknowledging how I had hurt him in the past. This was a CRITICAL part of Plan A for me. My husband’s complaint was that I never ever ever said I am sorry to him ever. Of course I hadn’t. I was so wrapped up in belief that my behavior was right that I never saw a need to apologize.

My husband needed to have hope that our marriage could be better, that I was not going to pull another bait and switch on him. My truly honest, humble, remorseful apology was PLAN A. He needed to hear that I got it. That meant I had to drop the score card on who was more right or wrong, Noodle. Yes his behavior was worse. That didn’t make mine ok, and withholding remorse, amends and apologies was not a reasonable response.

Did that make him instantly see the error of his ways? Heck no, the affair was still on for at least another 4 months. I went to Plan B, along with filing for Plan D very shortly after that.[/color]

They can discuss changes and invest in new tools to create a more satisfying marriage. They can rearrange priorities to more closely model the ideal rather than ignorantly allow other things to interfere but where the rubber meets the road NO amount of satisfaction is going to keep him from lying and seeking MORE than she can provide when it serves itself on a platter except the ONE thing he lacked in his very average not remotely horrible or hurtfull or abusive marriage and that is personal integrity.
[color:"green"]
Absolutely agree with you here. BUT with the caveat that she DID help create an environment where he was vulnerable. If they move to recovery it will be HIS RESPONSIBILTY to protect her from his weakness. But she also has the responsibility of not enabling that crap by love busting and failure to meet ENs.[/color]

He is GOING to be tempted...hurt...let down...disappointed...attracted to other people...deal with consistently unmet needs or perceived needs...change directions at least one hundred more times...and you know what? He is just going to have to get over it.

[color:"green"]Just where in Surviving an Affair, or His Needs Her Needs or any other MB article does it tell the WS to just get over his needs? This is precisely the prescription for suppressed anger, built up resentment and gee…temptation for another affair. Yes it is the WS responsibility to protect the BS from his weakness….but responsibility for meeting needs is the responsibility of BOTH.. Need meeting is affair protection![/color]

Then he might feel resentfull and he can get over that too.

[color:"green"]
Sure he can, in recovery, with a therapist, he can sort out his anger and resentments. (edited to add) But the Harleys are pretty clear that resentment fades (in the average person) when there is no longer reason for the resentment. LilSis can help with that by changing HER behavior which will change HIS feelings. She's already having that impact.[/color]
.

He is going to have to take RESPONSIBILITY for HIMSELF and stop waiting for someone ELSE to make it all better for him or to remove the temptation..

[color:"green"]
Yes he’ll have to do that in Plan B and when he comes crawling back to beg LilSis for another chance. But again, I’ll repeat myself, that does NOT remove her responsibilities for anything SHE has to fix on her part.

Let’s see. Would you take a carb addicted diabetic to a candy store and just simply expect that the diabetic resist temptation? Sure the diabetic is responsible for the choice to indulge…but you don’t think that you might bear some responsibility for putting that person in a vulnerable position?

I need to conduct myself with integrity no matter WHAT anyone else is doing.[/color]

There will always be some oily tongued flatterer in the wings waiting for the opportunity to get whatever gain she thinks can be gotten from him.

These are recovery issues.

[color:"green"]
I need to go to bed and I am not going to respond to the rest of this.
The whole point is for LilSis to continue looking inward at making herself a better person and not to focus on him, or what he does. Right, wrong, jerk, or knight in shining armor, it just doesn’t matter right now. She is in Plan A, which means becoming a better person herself. That requires honest to goodness self reflection and responsibility for what is hers to own. She needs to listen where she has failed to do so in the past. It shows LOVE and CARE and RESPECT, those are needs that HE NEEDS. There is nothing wrong with that.

You can insist that she has nothing to own and therefore nothing to do but to wait for her husband to recognize her righteousness.

That won’t bring them together for a chance at recovery…[/color]

Arguing whether the pain of the wayward spouse is valid or invalidates the pain of the betrayed spouse is just a red herring. Focusing energy here does nothing to aid recovery.

Mirroring, Validating, Empathizing works because it allows everyone to be heard. If allows the FWS to share their core wounds. If we do not listen to our FWS' concerns and complaints than we will get the impaired dysfunctional recovery we deserve.


Dr. Harville Hendrix sums it up like this:

• Falling in love is amazing – we feel complete and whole
• After a while we often feel frustrated with our partner, and have painful disagreements
• The pain is particularly acute because the frustrations with our partner usually remind us of some painful childhood experiences
• It often doesn’t make sense to us why our partner gets upset so much over the things we argue about. We may even imagine they are just doing it to hurt us.
• The Imago dialogue is a process which makes it easier to understand our partner, without feeling threatened or under attack ourselves. And for them to understand us in the same way.
• When we do understand that our partner’s experience is so different from ours, they make sense! Then we find it easier to meet their needs. And they find it easier to meet ours!
• With our new understanding, we can learn to stretch a little more to provide what our partner needs.
• Imago provides a whole set of relationship fitness exercises to guide us through the process.
• You might take a gym class, or personal training to get really fit. Imago workshops and relationship counseling can help you build the strongest and most rewarding relationship.

There was a time when I was very unhappy in my marriage and was ripe for an affair. I didn't meet anyone, I felt very isolated, the people I met did nothing to alleviate my suffering. I still loved my husband but it was clear to me he did not love me, at least that was my honest perception. I eventually became drug addicted instead of having an affair. Different guises of self-medicating. But it proves to me that the egg of the pain can come long before the chicken of the unhealthy behavior.

BrambleRose, you grace us with your wisdom and your presence.

No argument with that.

However, assuming that we're still talking about Lilsis here, the salient point is that we're talking about an FWS and the recovery stage. LS's WH is still in an active affair, and they are nowhere near recovery.

I can find no evidence that LS's WH expressed dissatisfaction with the marriage prior to the arrival of RT, nor that LS was insensitive to his needs. Most of what LS is working on NOW has come from her own guilty feelings and from what well-intentioned MB posters have urged her to see as flaws. The logic seems to be 'This is what it turned out MY H was resentful about, so it must be what your H is resentful about too.' This makes little sense to me.

If LS's WH expressed no missing ENs three years ago, then the only missing ENs that LS can work on are those expressed since d-day. While some of those may well turn out to be viable in the long run, many of them will be nothing more than cognitive distortions arising from a skewed, guilty, justifying, lust-corrupted mindset. Right now, there's no way of knowing which is which - for LS, LS's WH, or us.

There's no way of judging whether LS's WH left because he was simply exhausted by lack of an important EN, or whether he left because RT offered an easy cover-up for a weakness in him that he was reluctant to acknowledge or deal with. Both possibilities are equally plausible, given the facts as presented to us. So to take the view 'The fact that he left proves that you must have been failing to meet needs' is not a logical conclusion.

Right now, all that LS can do is work on being a safe place to return to - one that is open to healing and growth. She is not in recovery, and simply cannot work on recovery issues until she gets there.

TA

In 20 years of marriage my husband rarely complained about anything in our marriage. But his mother would complain on his behalf, "you should change your schedule to have dinner with him and spend evenings with him". (Trying to make a living here, yaknow.)

But if I asked him directly (conflict avoider that he is) he'd say everything was fine, don't listen to her.

During the affair he began complaining bitterly about not having dinner ready when he gets home. Mind you he gets home around 5pm and I was working til 7 most days, otherwise I was at school til 9ish. .7.days.a.week.

No opportunities for dinner at 5 there.

During my instinctive plan A, I started doing things differently, so I could make dinner quickly at 7 when I walked in the door.

I was able to get off work a bit earlier starting in July, which was a Godsend. And on schoolnights, I had something prepared for him to heat up.

One of my own bitter complaints was that he acted like he would starve to death if I didn't make his dinner. During recovery I realized it was his need for domestic support that was the key, and now I see it as completely valid.

Saturday night he made dinner for me as a treat. I had no idea what he was doing out there but in no time at all he presented me with the most delicious catfish I've eaten with mixed veggies and mashed potato on the side. WOW. 10 out of 10 stars. Who Freakin' Knew?

While I don't necessarily disagree with you on most of what you say, I began my "instinctive" Plan A, without the aid of MB, Harley or even the knowledge that my husband was in an affair. Yet that was an important step into recovery: and all it took was validating his need for domestic support. Which significantly helped stop the Affair. Seriously. It was a direct step to his confession.

Sorry but this is INCORRECT. My assistance with Sis regarding her PLAN A has been based on what SHE HAS SPECIFICALLY SAID regarding EMOTIONAL NEEDS that she FAILED to meet during her MARRIAGE. The HARLEYS make it very clear in ALL of their literature that UNMET EMOTIONAL NEEDS MAKE A MARRIAGE VULNERABLE TO AN AFFAIR. If you were to carefully go back and read Sis' thread, you will learn that what I am saying here is true.

I made this ARGUMENT to Steve Harley..that my husband didn't TELL me about his UNMET EMOTIONAL NEEDS blahdy blah. It didn't take long, though, for it to become VERY CLEAR in my conversations with Steve that many of my FWH's needs were UNMET. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. Secondly, Steve asked me if my H had to TELL me what he wanted and needed while we were COURTING. NO he didn't. When you are IN LOVE with someone and want to DEMONSTRATE that love, you are sensitive to them and caring. That's part of the ENJOYMENT of it. I love BEARS. I didn't TELL my H: "It will make me ecstatic if you gift me with BEARS for Valentine's Day"..It' so neat how I've been finding BEARS that he has hidden around our house. After a hard day at work, he's hungry and wants to eat dinner. If I don't cook dinner for several days, should he have to TELL me there's a problem.. if he repeatedly comes in the door and then LEAVES to get fast food? That's just a SMALL example of what used to happen in my house prior to the affair....Believe me, the OW had his dinner fixed everyday..She was GAMING and it was all a pretense of who she was ..but she MET THAT NEED for DOMESTIC SUPPORT...It was ALL OBVIOUS looking back..he didn't have to TELL ME and probably even tried to TELL me but I DID NOT LISTEN...

And..in my recent readings about how MEN WORK..Schoolbus probably can talk more about this..they are moreso DOERs than TALKERs..It's us women who tend to want to work things out by talking..Men moreso express themselves through ACTION...



So is this the advocation of the UN-MB'ers POINT OF VIEW?

From HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS:



You see, Dr. Harley"s view CLEARLY IS that the TEMPTATION TYPICALLY RESULTS FROM UNMET EMOTIONAL NEEDS.

Who are we to reinterpret HIS VIEWPOINT?

IMO, we are free to disagree but it is not OK to call the misinterpration of his VIEWPOINT/APPROACH as being FACT.

i think this is a great post.

i know now that i spent way too much time trying to figure out what I DID that would make my H do what he did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

i wasted a lot of time and enery w/ that. (fortunately, i do not see LS doing that.)
AFTER my attempted plan A, I found out that my H had a SA that predated his relationship w/ me.....that he hid it for years....THAT was not MY fault.
I spent way too much time blaming myself for what he did.

I most certainly was not the perfect wife in all ways but i know now that even if i had been, he would still have done what he did.....and would have found a way to justify it.

what i DO wish i had done earlier was make it safe enough for him to be more open and honest w/ me.
i take responsibility for my actions that affected his ability to feel safe enough to be open w/ me.

Temptation typically results from unmet emotional needs.

i agee w/ that.
but what good does it do to BLAME yourself for WS's decison to ACT ont hat temptation?

I think that most of us are in agreement w/ eachother about this....we just differ in the way we try to communicate it.

wanted to add...this is a great thread.
thank you, pepperband.

Bramble Rose's PERSONAL EXPERIENCE..along with the nature and content of the coaching from Steve Harley is almost exactly like mine..and we've been affair-free since 2003.



This was me, too. Sis, if you are reading, this is why I didn't feel as much ANGER as HURT during my PLAN A. BR, your experience was almost exactly like mine.... (((BR)))



MY EXPERIENCE AND POINT OF VIEW EXACTLY!!!!

I love you, BR. I hope you rested well last night...

THANK YOU for helping me know that I am not ALONE in my viewpoint and in my life experience. This post really touches my heart today. I will continue to stand up for what I BELIEVE in..I so admire you for doing that.

You should not BLAME or KICK YOURSELF...

Having an affair is WRONG...

The choice to have an affair is on the WS...

BUT..in order for the MARRIAGE to SUCCESSFULLY RECOVER... which is the GOAL..the BS needs to come to terms with the PERSONAL CHANGES that are necessary..those PERSONAL CHANGES have to be made...if you don't take an INVENTORY of YOURSELF, you will not change and the MARRIAGE continues to be VULNERABLE...

The whole point of the the MB SYSTEM is to "AFFAIR-PROOF" the MARRIAGE...which is on the front cover of HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS: BUILDING AN AFFAIR-PROOF MARRIAGE. That is how this particular approach is DEFINED....not saying that there are other viewpoints that are worthwhile...

mimi and BR,
could you both elaborate on how you EMASCULATED your husbands?
how you drove them away?
understanding THAT may help LS (and myself) figure out just how similar the situations are.

thanks.

Nia:

You've been following Sis' thread.

You agree that she has not mentioned ENs that have not been met by her?

What about her WH's need for ADMIRATION?

AND NONE OF US ARE PERFECT...

I took this as the opportunity to GROW AND IMPROVE as a WIFE and MOTHER..to learn to do a BETTER JOB at meeting my H's EMOTIONAL NEEDS..REGARDLESS OF WHAT HIS VIEWPOINT OF ME WAS...

I want to be the BEST WIFE THAT I CAN BE...to please myself..I continue to work on this DAILY...

i understand the point of MB and what you are saying here, mimi. and i am very pleased to hear how it worked for you AND BR.

I do think that so many of us get caught up in BLAMING and kicking ourselves because the affair happened to begin with....and then it effects our ability to see the situation w/ the clarity that is needed to do an effective plan A.

Rather than getting caught up in BLAMING AND KICKING MYSELF..I WORKED THE PLANS...

I'm not sure what you are saying or asking...

I think it will be helpful for you to read HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS.. Have you read it?

Basically, I failed to meet my H's primary ENs...ADMIRATION, SEXUAL FULFILLMENT, DOMESTIC SUPPORT, AFFECTION and RECREATIONAL COMPANIONSHIP...The handwriting was on the wall. It was obvious. He didn't have to tell me if I had taken the time to even care to look.....

I didn't waste time feeling blamed. I got on the JOB once I learned about MBers and did PLAN A..nothing could stop me from doing PLAN A to the BEST OF MY ABILITY..nothing..my H's ACCUSATIONS..FOG TALK..MEANNESS..I learned to BLOCK IT OUT and to CARRY ON with MY PLAN...

I was coached and prodded by the best of them..to include MEL and PEP and others who are no longer around here...

yes,I read HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS.
my H had a difficult time defining his ENs when we first got the book.
should dig that out of one of the boxes downstairs (we recently moved) wouldn't hurt to read it again now that our situation is so different and a little less foggy.

i was asking for some more detail on what EN's you were not meeting in your marriage.....trying to compare your situation to mine and LS's to see where it could help me.
my situation is a bit different than yours, yet there are many similarities...i suppose that is the way it often is.

THANK YOU ALL

for bringing it here

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

I've talked about this quite a bit on Sis' thread.

I mainly disrespected and disregarded my H.

Read the ADMIRATION CHAPTER in HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS which talks about the primary emotional need that I failed to meet.

i know the admiration chapter very well.
that was MY #1 need.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

i read what you had to say on sis's thread and I don't see you and LS as alike as you do.
(my perception, i know)