See, you can continue to be a self centered woman or you can look at the facts here. You deflect things away from you... dismiss me because you think I am bitter... I am anything but. I am a person that will call you on your BEHAVIORS and WORDS.

I think you have no right to bother your H again because of the things YOU said quoted above. YOU have questioned his manliness, his ability to please you sexually and to take care of his family... and you did this all just yesterday! No, you are no a wishy washy person. Of course you KNOW what you want... after all you have been committed to it for a whole day. Funny how those things happen after you got dumped.
What you OWE your H is honesty. Tell him he has never and you don;t think he ever will fill your needs like the OM... see if he wants to be with you after knowing the truth. Tell him you are repulsed by his tenderness... see if he wants to be with you. See... you have been replaced in both mens lives and now you have your little feelings hurt. Boo-friggin-hoo. Funny how you get dumped and all of a sudden God's will becomes clear to you. Very funny.
Better late than never for YOU... not your H. Because bottom line is you have said very clearly how you feel about him... and in my book that makes you a horrible risk for a wife to this man. He has a woman in his life that he cares for... and he has a ball and chain of a soon to be ex wife trying to drag him back into a relationship where SHE has said he can't measure up. Your words twinkie.
See... what you call insults is just an honest assessment of your post. You have insulted your H in terrible ways right here... and YOU are the one that should be ashamed. If you came here with a good heart and some positive things to say about him... it wouldn't matter that you had an A... heck, half the people here have. What matters is the things you feel for that poor man. And bottom line... you will try and suck him back in because your pride is wounded. Come here and say you made a terrible mistake and need advice on how to get your H back and you would find nothing but support. Come here and spew the [email]cr@p[/email] you did and I will get in line to toss 2 x 4's your way.



YOU emphasized that you KNOW your H can never meet you needs like the OM. Think your H would read this and still want you back???

Call it bitterness if you want... but you don't know a thing about my life.... Bottom line is if it helps you dismiss me... well, you seem to be pretty good at that.

Wow. Ok.
So I should just tuck my tail and crawl off in a corner sucking my thumb over the awful thing I did and how I can never fix it? B.S.!!!!
I have said over and over - I did a WRONG thing... I have been reading the articles on this site, and I THOUGHT there was such a thing as an EN not being met... I'm sure I suck at meeting some of his too. Maybe I used the word "know" when what I ahould have said was "I'm afraid that" no one will be able to meet the other's needs. And yeah, that quote above is pretty crummy.

But, here's the deal. I'm here because I am looking for HELP! I have tried my best to be HONEST even in the face of such venom and I have never once suggested I don't have a lot of work to do on me.
I GET that the A not H fault.

I HAVE SAID I have made a mistake and I have huge amounts of remorse - several times in the past few days!

I am aware that I have emasculated him over the past four years... can't take that back but can try to fix it.

And who gives a s*** if this is a 24 hour transition - maybe I'm driven, maybe I work fast, maybe I'm obsessed - maybe I've been sick and had nothing to do but think about all of this and write... but it is where I am.

So spew away, I am here to work - that probably means I'll say something stupid and uninformed and selfish every now and again - we WWs do that apparently, as I have read on other sites. But I will TAKE every 2x4 you throw because I want to change - me, my marriage.

Call away. I'm listening.

Ok, seriously - this is THE most interesting thing I've read today and I need to know what you mean because I am clueless... ok, I get how affairs are examples of self-loathing, but tell me more about how the list reflects my particular self-loathing - seriously, this is going to bug me until I understand it - this is how I roll...

i sense significant opportunity for change with this line of thinking so please enlighten - Nyquil on board! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i'm reposting this from the other thread

after i found out about my H's affair, i threw him out of the house

when he wanted to come home, i asked him "why?"

he said "i made a mistake. I didn't realize how much i love you."

and i asked him to "tell me what he loved about me"

and everything he said started off with......"WE"

i told him that i wanted to know what he loved about ME not about us as a couple

and you know what? to this day, the wonderful things that he said still amaze me....i had no idea he even noticed some of the things that he said he loved about me

silly things, even kinda stupid things

but things that made ME special enough for him to love ME

you've talked alot about what you don't like about your H

can you think of some things that you LOVE about your H?

MEDC-
I love my H. He was my high-school sweetheart. He is the most kind, loving man I have ever known. He put me up on a pedestal and made me his princess. He is a hard worker and will do his best at whatever job he has. He is very attractive, was always a great kisser, and, until I became a mom, we had great sex. (as much my fault as his)

I do not mean to tear him down - he is the best man anyone could hope for. He did not deserve for me to betray him (no one does), he does not deserve to be my 2nd choice. Which is why I am working on me before I really try "working" on him. Because me "as is" would chew him up and spit him out - which is not nice. When I look in his eyes and see the hurt, I am overwhlemed with guilt and remorse.
He deserves better - but he is married to me.

He is the reson why I am here. Not because I got dumped, not because we have a child, but because I remember a day, when I was in high school, he came to visit me - drove 13 hours straight, and when I saw him across the parking lot, I dropped my books and ran. I am here because he held me on the couch while I cried and cried after a miscarriage. I am here because he is the guy who never left my hospital room after our daughter was born because he had thought he heard the docs counting compressions in the OR and that i was not going to live (they were counting instruments). THAT is why I am here. And as soon as he lets me, I'm going to tell him so.

Eav -
Yes, all night I have thought of little else (sooo not getting my paper done!)...

He is absolutely THE most loving man I have ever known - wears his heart right on his sleeve, tells his mom, his brothers, that he loves them.

He is an excellent Daddy and treasures our baby girl (ok, not a baby anymore, she is 6!)

He has beautiful blue eyes.

He loves to cuddle.

He, for whatever reason, still loves me.

He is trying his best to walk with God.

He can play Barbies better than I can & this delights our little girl. He colors and plays and watches cartoons with her.
He cooked me ham and eggs for breakfast when I was pregnant because the nasty dietician took away my carbs (had DM)
He sings in church even though he can't carry a tune in a bucket - but he raises his voice on praise loud and clear.

He has an EXCELLENT golf game! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He can kick about anyone's a** in Trivial Pursuit... he loves my family - even my sister, who makes me look like little mary sunshine.

He is a total germ-phobe, like tonight, he wouldn't let me cook him dinner - because I'm sick. He is really afraid of heights - but he climbed onto the peaked roof of our first house to string Christmas lights for me...

Jeez! I am crazy and sick and need to be locked up!!! What have I done? How did I forget all of this?

bossy

may i suggest that those reasons above be your starting point if you really want to try to save your marriage and build a NEW and BETTER relationship with your H

use this as YOUR guiding light.....

let him know what you love about him

fill YOUR heart and HIS with those reasons

then be OPEN to accepting the emotional needs that he has and be WILLING to meet those needs

because making him feel good should make you feel good....but it should also make him want to MAKE YOU feel good in return

once you have made some deposits in his love bank by meeting some of his needs, he would be more willing and ready for you to be honest with him about YOUR NEEDS

but that might be a long ways off.....honestly, you've got lots of deposits to make before he'll start warming up to you

then.....share your top 5 needs with him...if he's receptive

if the time should come to address SF...consider this and tuck it away in case it should be needed

maybe you could let him know that your personality is such that you are always the assertive one and that when it comes to SF you think you would feel more feminine and more romantic if you could let that go and let HIM take on that role

i don't know if i'm explaining it right but IF you get to that point at some time, you've got to address it for you to be satisfied but you've got to do it in a way that won't hurt

Eav, thank you.

so what ARE your top five emotional needs?

just from what you've described above, he seems to be meeting some needs for:
family committment
domestic support
physical attractiveness
affection

they might not rate high on your the scale you made before this....but then i wonder, why would you list them as the things you love about him?

are you really sure what your emotional needs are?
(not through the eyes of someone who has been having an affair that is based in fantasy and not in the reality of everyday real life?)

what REALLY matters to you in life?

because i can tell you


a GOOD father is hard to find
a GOOD man is hard to find
a GOOD friend is hard to find

a MAN WHO IS HARD is EASY to find......

so if it's just about the SF.......

keep the good man that you have, love him, apprecaite him, meet HIS needs and he will WANT to meet yours, then you will hae a relationship where you can be and be open and honest about your SF needs because this CAN be worked out together once you find that "connection" again that you once had... that intimacy where it's easy to share and explore

anyway

that's my thoughts

i'm not judging you

my situation is not much different than yours and i'm giving you the same advice that i'd wish someone would give to my H if he decided he wanted me back in his life....and he wanted to make ammends and REBUILD with me

can you say what you loathed about yourself before your A?

can you say how you are loveable in spite of all that?

you ARE a child of God, therefore loveable, yanno



particular? no

in 12-step work, we are taught to take our own inventory ... when I find myself taking your inventory ... it means I am avoiding mine

does that help?

Pep

We are talking about the same man, right???? Because I will tell you that it doesn't even sound remotely like the same person you described two days ago. You say he is married to you... but that is only for two more weeks.
I appreciate the fact that you are trying to make yourself better... but frankly, we are talking about a process that will most likely take a very long time and extensive psychotherapy. You did not become this woman that will chew people up and spit them out overnight... and it will not change over night. I sincerely hope that you do become a better "you." But again, based on your own words I suspect that you are driven by some things (out of your control at the moment) that have NOTHING to do with loving your H. You have a drive.. and people that are so driven do not like to lose. And the fact is... the two men in your life that you care for most have gone on with others. You have lost. If this process had started a while ago and you had already implememted some changes... AND had not come here spewing such venom your H's way.. I would suggest that you fight for him. But that is not what happened and if I were his counsel... falily or friend I would strongly suggest that he move as far away from you as possible.
Take a look at your name...something to be proud of that trait of yours? Take a look at your posts...and again ask yourself since you have chosen to not answer... Do you really think your H would want to be with you if he read those things? Suddenly he WAS a good lover at one point.... that he is capable of meeting those needs even if he hadn't lately. Do you think he will want to stay when he sees you comparing his prowess to the OM? Of course he wouldn't... but then again, you won't be honest with him.

See I do not dislike you... how can I? I am only basing my responses on your posts. Had you shown up with the above post and not performed an overnight miracle change of heart.... had you not waited 4 years and then suddenly realize the error of your ways coincidentally around the time you were sent packing by the OM... I would see things differently. But as it stands the facts are the facts. You sense of urgency has everything to do with being dumped. Another question you failed to answer is "Where would you be right now if the OM had not dumped you?" Not with your H I suspect.
As far as should you turn tail and run... no. You should walk away with a grace that you haven't shown him for years. You should respect the fact that he has someone in his life that cares for him. You should be honest with him about everything and tell him that while you KNOW you need to work on you and that you love him.. that you are no more ready to get back into the marriage than you are prepared to run a 2 minute mile. Right now, you do not have the tools to help him recover since there is so much work to do on you.
I've walked in your H's shoes. I have seen firsthand what it is like when your partner shows back up at the 12th hour ill equiped to make amends. You will do anything right now to hold on to him...including not being 100% honest with him. You know that you have no business casting a shadow in his life until such a time as YOU are truly and completely whole. I would suspect though that you can't see that and for that I feel sorry for you. It is a terrible thing that you are now facing. You now know that you are responsible for the destruction of your M. Can you try to save it. Yes... that is your choice. Should you? Maybe yes and maybe no. But one thing is for sure... you shouldn't be trying to do so right now when you are ill equiped to do so.... his hurt will be brought back with a vengence if you do so. Your H sounds like a good man. You sound like a driven woman that doesn't accept defeat easily. A good trait in most circumstances. But when it will hurt another you really need to step back and look at what you are doing.
Please consider your next step for your H's sake.

Ok MEDC - what then should my next step be?
Seriously - I am very very lost.

next stop:

humility

... and - No. i would not want him to see some of the earlier things I said. It would break his heart. They should not have been said. I don't know why I was spewing such ick when I first landed here. And my name - it's kind of a joke - and I didn't know what to call myself - although today, "idiot" sounds good.

"finding my way back" sounds better

Ok, Pepp (can I call you that, it's shorter...), I have been thinking about the what did I loathe before the A thing... here's the deal. This kid has alot of failure issues (big surprise I bet!). I dropped out of college (which I kept secret from my parents), I ran up horrible debt. I got into a situation where I was stuck in a job that was killing me and couldn't get out because a.)I would have to go back to school to do anything different and b.) we (I) had spent so much money foolishly, that we were in debt up to our eyeballs and living paycheck to paycheck. And so I think MAYBE I transferred some of my feelings of being a total loser onto him... yes?

I think maybe I was lookig for someone to make me feel smart, important, successful, full of potential, because I had decided I was such a loser and my H, well, what did HE know??!! He HAD to love me & think I was great - he was married to me! I've actually said those words - "You HAVE TO think I'm pretty, you're married to me!" How stupid, huh?

So I think maybe I need to deal with why I feel like such an incredible loser - and MORE importantly, why I care if I have x job or y house - because at the end of the day all that stuff is dust and what matters is my relationship with God.

But is MEDC right? Do I have to leave him alone?

p.s. can someone tell me how to change my name? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Bossy...(soon to be named something to show you are willing to see things from another perspective and willing to make changes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i'm copying my post from last night as i still wonder what your answers are and think it's possible you may have missed it
...................


so what ARE your top five emotional needs?

just from what you've described in your reply to me and to MEDC, he seems to be meeting some needs for:
family committment
domestic support
physical attractiveness
affection

they might not rate high on your the scale you made before this....but then i wonder, why would you list them as the things you love about him?

are you really sure what your emotional needs are?
(not through the eyes of someone who has been having an affair that is based in fantasy and not in the reality of everyday real life?)

what REALLY matters to you in life?

because i can tell you


a GOOD father is hard to find
a GOOD man is hard to find
a GOOD friend is hard to find

a MAN WHO IS HARD is EASY to find......

so if it's just about the SF.......

keep the good man that you have, love him, apprecaite him, meet HIS needs and he will WANT to meet yours, then you will hae a relationship where you can be and be open and honest about your SF needs because this CAN be worked out together once you find that "connection" again that you once had... that intimacy where it's easy to share and explore

anyway

that's my thoughts

i'm not judging you

my situation is not much different than yours and i'm giving you the same advice that i'd wish someone would give to my H if he decided he wanted me back in his life....and he wanted to make ammends and REBUILD with me

Eav





I have considered the top 5 needs thing on several occassions and I always come back to this:
1.) Admiration
2.) SF
3.) Conversation
4.) Recreational Companionship
5.) Financial Suport

4 & 5 can switch back and forth. And yes, H certainly does meet some of the others... and OM absolutely could not meet some of those.

I listed those as things I love about him because they are, things I love about him. But they are not things that necessarily fill my bank... which I think is part of my struggle. And in case anyone has their 2x4s ready, I know - how is a guy supposed to Admire a WS??!!! I know, I know!

for a self-proclaimed idiot ... [color:"red"]" because at the end of the day all that stuff is dust and what matters is my relationship with God"
[/color] ... you're pretty sharp!

Pep

No
you can Plan A for all your worth

and

Plan A is a wonderful way to love yourself back