Vince,

YOU dictate what plan you are in. Since you have not given her a plan B letter stating your intentions, I would plan A in the meantime. I would get a hold of your emotions and realize that everything she does is an attempt to hurt you right now. Once you realize this, you can not let her get to you as much. Talk to SH and get a PLAN today.

Hi Vince -

Maybe we can go over some basics. Plan is plan A, because it comes before plan B. You need a good plan A before you go to plan B. As Jim said, it is YOU that determine what plan you are in, not her. As long as you have contact, you can plan A.

There are two parts to this.

The emotional part, and the logical part.

During an affair, she is in emotional mode, and what she says, and what she does, are emotional in nature. Those two parts exist in you also. You are attached to her - and you should be. BUT........ you know you can't make her do anything. You can't keep her against her will. Your plan has to be a logical plan, based on the outcome you want, not based on what she says, or does from day to day.


This is one of the reasons you need to think about this every few days, and why you need to settle on a plan and run it daily no matter what. Set a time frame for the plan - say three months. Then run the plan daily and look at it every week or so to see how it is doing, so you can fine tune it.

I watched a basketball game once. The two teams (pro) were evenly matched. One team resorted to throwing elbows, and starting fights to try to get an advantage. I watched a point guard who never lost his cool. He played his game, the one he had played over and over again. He brought the ball down, he took shots when he could get them. The rest of his team struggled, he rallied them, he was a leader - he was the light house. They won - but only be a few points.

HE DIDN'T CHANGE HIS PLAN EVERY TIME THE OTHER TEAM MADE A SHOT. HE DIDN'T THINK THEY WON, AND QUIT.


He knew emotion wouldn't win the game. It was a time for logic.

You need your game plan, and you need to run it. You can't be changing your mind every time she says or does something that hurts, or that looks bad to you.

Make a plan, in writing. Determine how long you are going to try. Don't react to what she does from day to day. It's counterproductive.

You win from day to day if you run the plan as it is outlined. It doesn't matter what she is doing in the short term. Think on this - and why the advice is given. It's important that you get this part of it - we can't help you if you you let emotion rule your thoughts and actions.

We don't know what she will do - or if she will "get it" and come back and work on the marriage. We can't control that. We can influnce it, and that's what your plan is for.

If you commit Love busters, it means you are responding to the taunts of the other team. It means you are not playing like a pro. Your job is to bring the ball down, and make the shots when you can get them. You need to do it no matter how you feel, or what she is doing.


If you run your plan for a month and it becomes clear she is running after the OM, you can make adjustments and you can D her. You have choices, and doing a plan doesn't take them away from you. It does give you the best chance to recover your marriage. You still have all the choices you have now, and you can exercise them whenever you wish. However, you want to use long term trends to make decisions, not daily mood swings based on what she does, or says TODAY.

I wish we could make the pain go away. When we tell you to run the plan, and be a pro - we don't mean to discount the pain. However, if you want to win, you have to rise above it.

Journaling (here) is good - it lets you gauge what you do on your plan, and if you record your WW's actions, it can show trends.

If you have a good day, DO NOT THINK all is well.
IF you have a bad day, DO NOT THINK ALL IS LOST. It doesn't work that way. Watch for trends - over time.

As for more helpful behavior, and how to run plan A -
You need to think about this one. Two things - go back to when you were dating, and think of things that she enjoyed at the very first............ before the love feelings showed up.
What kind of things did you do with her?

The second thing -
Some of what worked then may not work now, because times, and people change. What were her worries pre A? What did she stress over? Can you take away some of her pain as far as those things are concerned?

What brightens her day?
Is she a music person? Does she need a new CD to cheer her up?
IS there somewhere she always wanted to go that you can take her?

Be careful not to try to force her up and out if she doesn't want to go - but you can lead, and you can be happy, and upbeat. She'll notice what you are doing when she has contact with you. I encourage you to continue contact.

Are there things around the house that need doing, that you have put off?

Bad habits you can quit?

If she comments, you can tell her:
"This is a good opportunity for me to fix some things about myself. I can't force you to love me, but I can fix myself, and if you don't fall back in love with me, someone else will. All I can do is work on me - so that's what I am doing."

Again, spend time every few days thinking about this. Things will start to come to you. It takes time and patience to fix a marriage. It won't happen in a week, or a month.



Be a lighthouse. Lighthouses stand and shine. That's what they do. Doesn't matter how bad the storm, they stand and shine. That will be attractive to her - try it and see.


Decide what kind of man you want to be, and then BE THAT MAN. No matter what happens with her, this is a winning strategy.

God be with you.

SS

ss-

Wow. Thanks so much for taking the time to write that. Its hard to determine my plan because so much has been done and I have not found the this website until three months after the EA started.

Currently, she does not want contact with me. We made plans several times the past two weeks since she moved out and she broke them every time saying either, "i don't want to see you or I have to get such and such done, I just moved into a new place ya know".

I think my plan is going to be minimal contact, but make the most of that contact. I did all the wrong things according to Plan A the first three months except expose the affair. I did go to therapy and learn about myself and why I act the way I do in certain situations. This was definitely a love buster for us (exposing the A). Right now, she does not want any affection from me and hasn't phoned me in a week...at least. She emailed me today probably because she was so surprised I didn't contact her this weekend.

I feel I need to give her a little space, but be positive and radiant when given t he chance to see her or speak with her. I need to show her that I am in charge of my life and will no longer let her dictate my every move around her and play her game. I need to be the 'point guard' and decide when things are going to be done, how and when.

Thats my plan.

Any advice otherwise anyone?

Thanks again SS - awesome stuff!!

I want to email her and ask her if I could have the dog for a couple days. Does anyone see any negative effects of this?

I know she sees the dog as a burden now and I miss him like heck and it would be nice to have him around the house.

Anyone see a problem with this? Also, this would give me a chance to see her and show off the 'new' me.

Your descriptions of your attempts to see her and talk to her scream neediness. Email her and tell her it's been too long since I've seen [doggie]. I want to have him here with me for a few days. Here are the times you can bring him over: XX, YY, ZZ. Let me know which works for you and I'll see you then. Thank you.

Possibly not so cold and businesslike but here are the points: !) you want the dog, 2) she is obligated to let you see him so it makes no sense for you to explain yourself or give any impression that you're begging, 3) you will not kill yourself to be available at her convenience. All important.

VS, you are the faithful partner and have the moral high ground. Being eager to please will get you nowhere. She's a pariah in need of your care and forgiveness. Not the other way around.

GC

GC -
That was my plan. Just email her and ask her if she can drop off the dog tomorrow morning and pick him up Thursday night. I will not beg or plead. I will be nice and cordial and to the point.

Now, do I ask her to see if she wants to hangout Thursday night when she picks up dog, or does that sound too eager?

Rather than asking her if she wants to hang out, it may be better to use a specific thing.

"I was just going to eat, and there is enough for two, do you want some?"

"I was just sitting down to watch __________. You are welcome to join me if you want."

Think of something she might really like, and offer that. Don't over do it though - it can't be something you would not usually be doing, because that is a giveway.

If she says no, don't pay her much attention.

"OK, see you later then." Or however you would naturally say it.

Act like you don't care if she says yes, or if she says no.


You can still communicate by email. Conversation and or communication are often high on a womens list of needs.

If you are making decisions that affect her, write her about it, and ask for her input. If something happens to someone you both know, tell her about it.

Don't fabricate things just to talk, but pass on things she would be interested in.

Search out the threads on plan A, and read up on them. There is still much to learn, and you can get ideas from what others have done.

SS

Vince, listen to SS. Have something specific to do and casually invite her. If she says no, you do not care because you're a man of value and her coming along for the ride is irrelevant to that.

Don't think of these behaviors as manipulation. Think of them as practice. If your body language and attitude do not reflect your value as a man, they need to catch up, regardless of what happens to your marriage.

Your wife's reaction is important, but detach yourself from it as much as you can. It's very possible she'll say "No; I have to go." You can't change that.

I remember when my former wife, at the beginning of her affair, came to our home and told me she wanted to get divorced. I said, "I disagree with that plan. Do you have anything else you want to discuss?" She was freaked out. She just darted her eyes around and said, "No" to which I replied, "Okay then, well I'm heading out," and I went to leave. She was flummoxed. I suppose she expected me to fight, but there was nothing to fight about. If she wanted to cheat on me and divorce me, I wasn't going to help her do it. There was nothing to negotiate.

A few days later she told me she was basically homeless. I invited her to stay at our house and (cringe) made some spineless promise to keep a wide berth if that's what she wanted. That evening she treated me horribly then went out to see her affair partner. He dropped her off at our house! She left early the next day on business. I called her and told her I didn't want her staying at the house any more. I should have said it the minute she walked in the night before but instead I (cringe) layed on the couch and pretended to be asleep. Nonetheless, when I told her she couldn't stay at our house any more, she was struck dumb for about five seconds, then tried to make some lame, face-saving statement about not being comfortable there anyway. She knew why I closed the door on her, and she could hardly believe it when it happened.

Let's review:

Saying "I disagree" and walking away when she said the D word: RIGHT

Saying "I'm inviting you as a friend to stay at our house and I'll keep my distance if that's what you want: SO WRONG

Laying on the couch silently faking sleep when she walked in the door as her affair partner drove away: WRONG

Kicking her out of the house for such behavior (even if it happened twelve hours late): RIGHT

Now Vince, I'm very very embarrassed about those loserish things I did, so please try to get some value from the stories. I'd prefer not to tell them.

Now. The things I did right - and as the weeks went on I got much better at them - didn't save my marriage, but they were excellent practice. These events are so traumatic and feel so monumental that they leave a very strong imprint on you. You learn very quickly how to identify and handle situations in which things you care about are threatened.

So you see, having the demeanor of a strong and confident man will have a tiny influence on your wife, or it will just confuse her. Either way, it's good for you.

GC

WOW...
Thanks SS and GC. Excellent.

I found this post and it hits home more than the others. Very similar sitch to vincestrong, but I'm a little further along. I discovered A in late Dec. It started in Sep - Oct roughly. I winged it for 2 months before finding this web site and getting my head together. I am nowhere near reconciliation, but I do see A falling apart and now hearing the words spurred by withdrawl from OM. If I can keep the pressure on A it will end shortly. My inside sources tell me they are still talking, but not about the future.

Vince, it gets better and my Plan A is starting to get strong and it is having an effect on WW. I exposed A to work and WW lost it. Last Thur I confronted OM and asked him to lay off. He said he would. If he upholds what he told me (not really expecting it) the A will end even sooner and she can get through withdrawl. When WW found out she completely lost it. She couldn't even function the next day and ran to Texas to her sisters house. I heard every textbook WS saying after exposure in the process. I've sent her a few emails stating my boundaries and explaining my actions. She pretty much knows exactly what my Plan A is, but has no idea that there is a Plan B and she won't until I feel like it is time for it. She moved out a few weeks ago so Plan A is difficult. All she sees is exposure. I have very little oppertunity to be a lighthouse, but I try to make the most of the opps I do get. We have a son so I do maintain some contact with her. It is hard to see it now, but your WS will go through the cycle of an A just like mine is. The exposure will speed it up. Being a lighthouse will make it harder for her to hurt you with words. My WW is still taking cheap shots with every oppertunity, I have learned to let them bounce off of me even though they still hurt. I even emailed her M, S, and B some info from a different forum that explains what she is going through. You never know, I may get an ally where I least expect it. I spend so much time working on myself, doing research, and reading SAA that I have managed to put away the worst of the pain. I am a systems analyst, so turning this situation into logical patterns makes it much more understandable and makes me much more bullet proof. SS was absolutely 100% correct with his previous post witht the basketball analogy. If things don't work out you will at least be a much better and stronger person which will make moving on that much easier. I already have a good problem from Plan A. I have lost 30 pounds, live in the gym, have learned to control emotions, pay better attention to people, learned how to converse better, and guess what. I am getting lots of attention from women. I am not pursuing anybody or letting anyone into my life, but it does feel good to know you aren't the evil monster WW paints you to be. Confidence is power, and a good Plan A will give you confidence. It is doing wonders for me. If my WW ever lets me back into her life, I think she will be in for a big suprise. I suggest not giving up even if you want to. It will make you a better person in the long run.

SS,

I have a few words for you also.

That post with the basketball analogy has taken me to the next level. I think everybody needs to read it. It is award winning. It should be up there with WAT's quick start guide and some of the other profound posts. Somebody needs to compile these kinds of posts and put them in a book. I'm too lazy, sorry. I just like to research. Don't ask me to put anything together. LOL

Vince, you're going to be fine. Use me as an example. I was right where you are 3 weeks ago.

MB and the forums are awsome.

Well, she contacted me again today via email and asked if she could "come over for lunch tomorrow or Friday". I havent contacted her since last Friday. She emailed me twice so far this week. No calls.

I'm really at the point that I don't want this marriage to work. I am in love with what we had, not her. I think, i don't know.

She has done too much. There is just too much damage. So much lying. I don't think I could ever be with her again. The thought of being intimate with her leaves me disgusted. I feel like she is a piece of trash under my feet. She doesn't deserve me. I was the sad sap, "i love you; i've changed" guy for the first 3 months (since EA til a week ago) and got stepped on the ENTIRE time. I'm done with that game. It was no fun.

I don't miss her at all, I miss our dog. I miss our old life. She is an utter piece of crap for doing this and I'm not sure I want her back at all.

I need to do some serious thinking.

I'm 30 years old, very successful for my age, good looking, caring, etc. I don't need this piece of trash. I can have someone who will be faithful to their vows they make under God and have someone who will not be with someone else at the drop of a hat.

I'm just very hurt and angry right now. Like Isaid, I don't think I can get over this and don't think want her back. AHHH!!

Vince,
You don't have to reconcile. It's your choice.

Keep in mind that feelings can change from day to day. I suggest you continue plan A until you make a final decision. If the idea of lunch with her seems abhorrent, you don't have to do it. If you are interrested in what she is thinking, and feeling, and you can be upbeat, and happy meeting with her, then meet with her. Think about this a couple of weeks before you make your final decision. If you feel the same in two weeks as you did in your last post, then you have your answer. If your feelings go back and forth for two weeks, my suggestion is to give it more time.

You want to come out of this knowing you did what you ought to have done. You don't want any doubts to go with you into the future.

BetryedCajun,
Thanks for your comments. You are very kind.
I hope you do well in the future, and it sounds like you are doing what it takes to get where you want to be.

Vince,
Be the light house either way. Take the high road. Whenever you interact with her, show her how she ought to be acting by your example. Stand up and shine.

SS

I just don't think I want to see her. My second d-day was just a week ago (with a month of lies and utter treatment of me like trash for three months). I'm not sure if I want to try and save this.

Like I said, a lot has been done..a lot! I really think she just wants to get her mail and ask me to watch the dog next weekend as she is going out of town. So.....

I got some thinking to do.......I really don't have any feelings other than hate right now for her. Maybe that will change as "time heals all wounds".

The opposite of love it's not hate. It's indiference.

You might be going thru the anger stage.

Take good care of yourself now.

Wish you the best.

Trying hard to just focus on myself right now. Eating, working, sleeping - the basics are hard.

WW seems like she is gone. No real contact other thanthe two emails this week, very business like and unemotional. Wants to come to the house to get stuff.

Another day in paradise.

Thanks for the thoughts and prayers.....

Well - PI confirms she is still trying to seeing him and succeeding. May be time to get the lawyer ready.

The mountain of evidance I have against both of them is large. I even have emails and texts from him to his friends saying that my wife is "fun while it lasts". I told my wife this last week, but she didn't believe me.

Not sure what more I can do about her work other than ensure everybody she works with knows what is going on. I have a friend who works there that could get me all the email addy's or do it himself.

Another day in paradise......

-VS