I have to agree with the first post. There have been some posts I have seen where I felt like myself being the BH I am, I felt like I was not welcome around here. Some of them have been made to make me feel like my filing for divorce like I did, I was the bad guy, almost more at fault then the STBX who couldn't keep her clothes on. I left for quite a while, but I found it really tough to find another community that offered so much traffic. I then just resigned myself to stay out of the GQII area.

I was just made to feel low because I couldn't make myself want my WW back.

Posters need to keep in mind, that along with all of the people that have worked things out, there are probably people reading here that are hurt, in pain, don't know when the agony of their torn up lives will ever end, and if people here could just be understanding, they could do those people who come here for genuine help some real good. There is a place for everything, and kicking people when they are down is just bad form. Most people here probably are genuine and want to help, it is just those few that really lack tact that make it tough for others.

I think everyone should write very kind & caring things
to me ... but,
it's OK if you want to be mean & nasty to each other <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

a c t u a l l y ... (said slowly, with my glasses pushed far down to the tip of my nose so I appear serious and trustworthy) ... this sort of word-fighting is very useful ... dealing with harshness by learning to self-soothe is a swell skill to acquire

self-soothing becomes veddy veddy useful when encountering snarling teenagers or stupid wayward babble

it is good to be challenged ...
nevertheless, everyone be nice to me while you challenge/push/tug/arm wrestle each other ...

as Chauncey Gardiner said: " I like to watch."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

THE WORST DAY FOR ME ON THE FORUM WAS THE DAY THAT I DIDN'T KNOW WHO ANYBODY WAS...APRIL FOOL'S DAY WHATEVER YEAR THAT WAS.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

WOW..was I taking everything...SO VERY SERIOUS..and everyone was JOKING.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

WHAT NERVE TO JOKE AROUND ON MY FORUM!!

FWIW Mimi, I hated that day too. It destroyed my trust in a lot of people.

It was the BEGINNING of me learning to stop being SOOOO SENSITIVE...and SERIOUS...

I can hardly believe that I was like that BACK THEN...

Yeah, Mimi, I know. You and I are VERY alike. I've noticed it before.

The thing that's so often not taken into account when people respond to other posters is that we're all different personality types. We had a workshop at work on "personality" and we filled in the questionnaires and then divided ourselves into our personality types.

I was in the "outgoing, friendly" group. The facilitator laughed out loud when she what we did. All the other groups moved to the tables they had "chosen" and sat there. Our group moved all our tables to join together to make a big group table, laughing and talking the whole time we did it.

Thank you for posting this. I'm relatively new here and was surprised by some of the posts I've come across. I thought this was a support type board and was very surprised to have my opinion challenged, in a debate like fashion, when I thought I was simply offering my perspective and opinion as a FWS, for someone to ponder. I just chalked up the rudeness to someone thinking they could read my mind and was a know-it-all. Then I sort of thought maybe as a FWS I was way out numbered and it would be best I not stick around here.

I also realize that typed words sometimes lose the context in which something is meant and I do always take that into consideration. I know there are times people need a little kick to get out of a stuck spot and that's OK too. It's the judgmental, know-it-all stuff that will turn me away.

I found my way here after posting on a debate board for both sides of A's for a few years. I'm not interested in debating my opinion any longer, it started to create way too much negative energy and made me feel defensive and crabby.

I came here to make sure I am doing the right things to help my H recover. I know he is not as far along as I am and I need to have some fresh ideas how to continue to help him. In what little bit of time I've spent here, I do see where I was not doing a few things right. I feel like we are back on track.

hey life's choice

you sound like someone who would have alot to offer to those in need on this site

i hope you stick around

ps
feel proud of your "life's choice" to work on your marraige and help your H heal

i hope someday my H will make the same choice

Different people respind to different types of posters. For exaple, some people learn audibly, some hands on, and some by writing. Different strokes for different folks.

Just because people are diagreeing, this doesn't mean that they are rude or argumentative.

I think anyone who is taking their time to help other people in here, are doing so, with inherently good intent. (Whether they are BS,WS, or former of either)

Therefore, if anything, I find the fact that we consider dissent to be "rude" or "argumentative" ,in itself, disturbing.

Again, at the end of the day, the initial poster has to take whatever info he/she finds useful and apply it to their situation.

grind

it's not the disagreeing that is rude argumentative

we all have different views, different experiences and knowledge that we've used to help create those views

it's the way people are going about this

if you haven't read it yet, you might understand what i'm trying to say if you read lilsis's thread

around page 220 is when things really took a wrong turn although lilsis started voicing her concerns at about page 117

but this isn't the only thread that this has happened on

there are times when arguing between posters gets so bad that it fills pages and pages of the thread of a person who is waiting for support

have you been here for awhile?

i've been here for 2 years and i've seen it happen too many times in the past

eav,
I've been here about 6 months or so. More of a lurker than poster, but I take my spells.

Anyhow, I reviewed the posts and ,IMHO, did not see anything rude or argumentative. I saw way too much discussion over a letter and a potential second letter.

Then I saw that LilSis took it personally and was a bit upset.

Since, in my line of work, email is my main source of communication, I see similar issues there also. Writing styles of different people can portray different feelings. I can write the exact same thing, in a number of different ways, and get differing reactions from the same people. This is very difficult situation to resolve, I feel.

To me, being rude would be to say "This is what should be done and you are an idiot if you do not follow this". Argumentative would be responding in CAPTIAL LETTERS or responding multiple times saying the same thing.

I think we all have a right to state and defend our unique positions. They are just that, our own positions.

At the end of the day, the user can take whatever they like of my advice(or yours) and hopefully restore their marriage to the glory which they desire.

GNF has it right on the $$. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> What we see is many a poster, be it BS, Xws, etc..... expecting the group here to respond in their favor or the like. Well life ain't like that and for many of us who have been there and see that waaay to many times.....tip toeing isn't helpful.... reality checks often require some 'tough love'. So it's best to expect t/b shaken up a bit, learn to take the good and throw away the rest but you have to be honest with your evaluation.

Those tooo sensitive won't last long here. This isn't a place about being politically correct. Not when you are dealing with those who are not considerate.

Will we disagree? Yes. Will we have our POV? Yep.... What t/d when confused? Ask questions. Don't expect us to FIX it for you. NO can do. What we can do is help you find a way to use the tools we have learned to help you. Know you can not fix the WS....don't want to..... you should want the WS t/b broken because you should want your real spouse back NOT the WS.

Tactics vary.....learn to use the one's that may best help your sitch. If you want professional help....go get it.

Many an MB poster spends lots of time reading and responding. Some of us even go back and read background info (prior posts and stuff) to know how to best respond.

Remember you aren't paying for this. As previously stated, we are NOT paid professionals so don't expect us to act like one.

We all have stories about how someone may have posted rudely to us..... you can either be a wimp or use it to strengthen your character. Of course you have never been called a Hitler or told off royally on MB, have you? I have. More than once. It was sad to see a BS who told me off after I cautioned her NOT to get her hopes up about a recovery that oozed with failure on the edges......it was sad to see her recovery fall apart because the WS was stringing her along and within 2 weeks, she was pushed down lower than when she 1st started posting. Did I ream her? No. She didn't need reaming but she did owe me an apology which she never gave (least I don't recall it).

My point is to take the good and let the bad or what is not applicable slide away from you and your sitch.

Can do??!?!? Yep....u can do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JMHO,
L.

everyone has thier own opinion about this

however, i value the opinion of someone who specializes in Affairs, does counseling, has written books on the topic, and knows the harleys

I have seen and read of 'professionals' who can get to the true issue and give valuable support and bad professionals who are worthless. Both get paid. It is still up to the recovery persons t/d their homework.

IMHO,
L.

It would seem as if my last two series of posts, improperly directed at one person has gotten people thinking... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good...because I am here more than people think...and tend to help individuals who are just learning and waffling...with what they want to do...we have had success on this board and failures....and I will continue to do so, if I can add to the discussion...no sense in repeating myself....

But for the first time that I have been here (which is quite some time) I had posts deleted as they should have been...but my goal was accomplished...this is not the same place it was when I was in my great despair...lets hope it changes...

In the event of turbulance and a loss of cabin pressure:

There are several things you can do

Refuse to put your own mask on first. Be offended and blame the board instead of the poster him/herself - and say the board has changed - then refuse to derive value from the caring posters who put quite a bit of thought and personal experience into their posts.

In terms of the "tone" of the board changing... Frankly, I've been here as a lurker since 1999, posting for a couple less years than that - and the tone has always been volatile - it's the nature of reducing all communication to words and emoticons, caps/bolds/colors... And I so remember SNL and his many aliases, so don't say it's worse now than it was...

Or, you can put your own mask on first (reduces the smell of some offenses instantly). Putting your own mask on first means that if a poster is repeatedly an offender of social norms, you can block their posts from even showing up.

In the event of a random drive by by an obscenity poster, notify the captain of the ship - a moderator can edit or even remove obscenity laced posts, in the event that the captain of that post (the poster) is unwilling to do the editing themselves.

In the event that things get a little to thick with insults from people who deny being insulting but love to point out the disrespect from others, use your seat cushion as a floatation device - levity, humor, etc. works. After all, it was an attack intended at me personally and a generalized insult on all Harley followers which inspired my current signature line.

Even though we're all vulnerable - as betrayed spouses we've had more than our share of insults, name calling and obscenity thrown our way by infidels - and as repentant waywards who also endure the insults, name calling and obscenity too... please keep this in mind. The words used here should never be taken personally. Even if they are intended as attacks, they only reveal the heart of the attacker (read The Four Agreements for more information about HOW to do this as the skill comes in handy here and just about everywhere else, including with waywards and children).

Would you say that the following post by myself was rude and argumentative????



Here's my reasonings for re-posting what I've said to her before:

1. McBecca is a WW who is dealing with her OC. She is in "mother bear" mode, protect at all costs. She see's her H's reactions, albeit, normal responses for the BS, as danger to her OC. She is NOT seeing the other stuff, outside her tunnel vision. Where she SHOULD be reading between the lines. As stated in the bold.

2. I truly want to help McBecca get past this point, but from MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS, I think she is still a bit hazy in her fog. I think that she is over the OM, but is still connected to him, which is endangering her M. That haze is covering her H's behaviors and actions, making them seem as if he's against her and their M.

3. I have said to her MANY TIMES, both on GQII and P/C that she needs to find out her H's EN and start trying to fill them. I don't recall any time where she has acknowledged even trying that.

Now, I am NOT one of those posters who thinks, in McBecca's words, they are "perfect". BUT, I have been down the road she is looking at traveling. I know that the burden of work in her sitch will be on her shoulders, as the WS. From all info given, I see that her H is still in shock, yes 8 mos after the fact! He hasn't dealt with it, and needs to. But, also from info given, she seems(again, my own views) to be pushing for her H to be ok NOW. I KNOW you can't do that to a BS, cause you get what she's getting, non-commital answers from her H.

I really do think that her M is salvageable, if she is willing to work at it. In MVHO, I think that her H is waiting to see WHAT she is willing to do to "fix" what she broke. If I'm wrong, sorry, but that's what's so great about a place like this, you get MANY POV's from WS and BS alike. I wish her(you if you are reading McBecca) all the luck and will continue to post as helpfully as I can.

You were able to stay, [color:"red"]Mimi[/color], and take it like a MAN ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> .... not at first, but over time you learned to endure the discomfort of disagreement, and work your way through it without falling apart ... and NOT running away ! very kewl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> skills

[color:"red"]Tigger [/color] ... I think your post was SPOT on ...

Pep

LIKE A MAN?? OH, MY!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />