Mom,

I didn't mean we should POJA as to my needing help after surgery. I was referring to IN GENERAL. I think a vacation without me needs to be something I agree to, whether I'm sick or not. I don't even plan a day of fishing without checking with her about her plans FIRST.

To me it a matter of (un)common courtesy.

Mark

Mark,

I hear ya. I am detail minded and over courteous but my H flies by the seat of his pants and thinks the world should do the same.....at least in the past. But he's changed now...his mentor challenged him to see the world through my eyes....and he is trying to do that....and it's working!

Ace

Ace,

My wife tends to not compartmentalize at all. Which, in theory could be a good thing. The trouble comes in when she is stressed at work, our DD brings our DGD to the house (we kind of thought we wouldn't have to deal with 2 year old's much any more), our DD quits another job, our DS calls and says he needs more $$$ (My son AND my paycheck attend Illinois State University) and her sister calls and is having health problems. The stress is at a high level, the house needs dusting and her response becomes..."I'm sick of having to do everything myself!"

If she'd ask, I'd dust. If I was home, I might do it without being asked, but I work 20 hours more per week than she does AND the yard work is mine, the snow shovelling is mine, the house repairs are mine...and I don't blame her for my missing lunch because work was h377 that day.

It didn't bother me as much before as it does now. It is now a symptom of her blaming me because she isn't happy and it ain't my job to make her happy...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I tend to practice triage to begin with. If it's something that I need to do some about or something bad will happen, it gets immediate attention. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> If it's something that can wait, it waits. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> And if it's something that no matter what I do, the outcome will be the same as if I do nothing, what, exactly, should I do? In that case, why waste the time? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

And for me, what happens at work...stays at work. I never blame her or the kids for anything that I have to deal with during the day. I'm willing to share the details of my day, if she wants to know, but I try not let the problem du jour get in the way of listening to how her day went.

And when I ask "What do you want for dinner?" I'm seeking an answer or at least input. I'm not looking for consensus. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Any cooking that happens is usually done by me or we go out or order out. She doesn't do any body's laundry any more other than her own, and if I hear the dryer shut off after she goes to bed, I will fold and hang her stuff for her. I do the dishes as often as she does. I don't expect her to clean the house before or after work, if it's a mess, I don't complain. I do know how to use the Electrolux. She gets the remote most nights, since there isn't much on that I want to watch and we do have 3 TVs for two people.

Come to think of it, I think I'm the one who wants to just get on with life...I'm actually pretty tired of talking and thinking and studying about infidelity... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

It IS time to get over it already!!!

Family Life (familylife.org) had a good example today. They said marriage isn't supposed to be a war between the spouses, it should be a war between the marriage and the world. We share a foxhole. Are we fighting together to beat back the enemy or are we so busy duking it out with each other that the enemy overruns the position?

Yeah, I know it doesn't really apply and doesn't solve the problem of getting over it, but that is what a M should be, us against THEM. As soon as it becomes us against each other, THEY win!

It will get better with time, one way or another. The triggers will not "go away." I think that we either choose to not be triggered anymore or we will withdraw to where the triggers no longer have any effect. That place is the D word. It needs to get back to US instead of YOU & ME or it needs to be ME without YOU.

Time to get it, get on with it or get it over with...

OK. I'm done now....<SIGH> You can all go back to what you were doing... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mark

Thanks for sharing, Mark. That's what these forums are designed for. Whether we agree or disagree is not always as important as venting and just getting it all out there.

Did you read the rest of my Mr. ROMANCE saga in the Romantic Experiences forum below? You inspired me with your insertion of the phrase "What God has put together..." to really wonder if He had.....for 30 years.

I don't think it will take 30 years for everyone but it is worth the wait for me.

I had to pull the middle chapters but if you'd be interested in seeing how much our sitches are similar I'll email them to you if you want.

Just let me know....my email is listed on my home page and after each chapter of the saga.

Ace

So what's stoppin' ya, Mark?


There ya go.....we should be our own best cheerleaders....you go GUY!

***

I also liked your Family Life concept although I'm not sure why we have to be against anyone except the evil one....unless that's who you mean by "the world". Yeah, I can see that.

Oh, BTW, I saw your new 'come hither' thread to LITW. I wish I could have posted during the day.... I did sneak a few comments in before the IT police caught wind but I was not able to respond to her.

I'm nearly as new as she is and I sort of know how she feels. I must applaud her courage as I did the same thing. But we have different learning styles and I left the boards to research and seek God, not because I was challenged mightily for posting unwise advice....which I did innocently....just being compassionate and trying to help. But I was compassionately wrong and I was thankful that people cared enough to show me why.

It was interesting to watch my Jan. 21 thread take on a life of its own. Ultimately, because of the questions asked by the one poster who disagreed, I realized that the majority of posters were right. And after the process was done (delayed exposure to the OPS) I thanked everyone, spoke of our renewed marriage and was told that 'such renewed marriage talk hurts alot of people around here'.

So I moved over to the recovery board until other posters asked for that statement to be clarified....and he sheepishly admitted that he had no idea why he said that... In the end, it was evident that there was no reason that joys and successes should NOT be shared on the GQII forum.

I applaud you for reaching out to LITW, Mark. I think she will be back at least lurking if not posting. But if not, don't feel badly....we are all adults and if we can't listen to counsel without becoming defensive, we need to take a second look at our motivations for being here.

I truly felt badly that the person to whom I was giving ill-advised advice had only two posts before I inadvertantly threadjacked him. And he's not been seen since. I tried to reach out to him like you are to Lost, but all I can do is trust that God knows his needs and will meet them in spite of my bumbling attempts to help.

Again, thanks Mark for sharing your heart. May things look up in the morning.

Ace

Ace,

Yes, I read the rest of it, except maybe the "missing chapters."

Some of your questions speak to the concepts of predestination and free will.

If God is all powerful, is it even possible for us to resist his will? And if he gives us free will, does that mean that he has no input into our decisions at all?

If God ordains something should be, does that mean that it happens because He said it should, or does He see the end from the beginning as well as all points between and knows, not deduces, since He isn't surmising anything, He sees it, what will come to pass? But does that make God omniscient or clairvoyant? He must be all-knowing, since He is not seeing the unseen, but all is seen by Him and all at once. Time has no meaning to God, since He existed before time began and will continue after time has come to its end and therefore, both the beginning and the end are before Him at once.

So, did he bring you together?

When God had finished the world and saw all that He had made, his first thought was for the man. He saw that the man, even though he had a relationship with God Himself, desired more, another relationship. Adam was lonely.

So God made Eve and brought her to Adam. How gorgeous did Eve have to be for Adam to be so immediately taken by her? He had never seen another women, for none existed. Adam didn't know if Eve was too fat or too thin. He had nothing to compare her to, since she was the only other person he'd ever met. Adam knew only one thing about Eve for certain. God had given her to him. Adam's first comment was to call her "bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh." Jesus said that this was the very purpose of marriage, that the two should become ONE flesh. (You'd never think of injuring yourself, would you?)

It has been said that since the women was taken out of the man, he is incomplete without her. And since the women came out of the man, she owes her very reason for being to him. God had brought them together and meant for them to remain together forever, not just till death, since there was not yet any such thing as death.

That's why I take my W's A so personally. This was, and still is, my view of marriage.

But Adam failed to protect his wife from the temptation of the world. And Eve failed to erect a boundary that kept her from wanting to make an independent decision. Where was Adam while his wife was hanging around in the garden? How did Eve allow herself to be seduced by the sweet talk of the serpent, who never had to think of another lie beyond his first one. He told Eve, "YOU can be just like God Himself. You can decide what is right and what is wrong. You can make up your own mind. You don't need to rely on your husband. You don't need to trust God. Do what YOU think is right, what feel good to YOU. Surely that isn't what God meant by what He said. Don't ask your husband, he doesn't even need to know. trust what you FEEL. You decide."

And so we have what we have today; death, decay, a divided world and...

adultery.

Yeah, I know. I should have put this in your other thread, but I was here and it was...someplace else and I was....OK. I'm lazy...

Mark

It doesn't matter what thread you put this on....it relates to both topics. (But LITW might see your post in the Romantic Experiences thread as she was the last one to post there. I'll try to respond to her tomorrow.)

Our posts crossed in cyberspace but I appreciate your thoughts. I will reply more tomorrow and tonight is my FWH's birthday so I'm off to celebrate with him.

Ace

Ace,

I see we were posting at the same time. I hate dial-up. If I could get DSL, I'd have it. I just won't do "cable" since I have issues with Comcast (I'm a Dish Network dealer for crying out loud).

I've been worrying about what I said to LITW. The last thing I want to do is drive her away. I'd actually prefer to leave myself, since I think she can be helped more by this place right now.

But I had this problem. She was telling a newbie he should not do what he was being told to do because if she had known her husband was following that kind of advice while she was actively in her A, she would have left him and it would have been over for sure. And since that is the STANDARD line of a WS when hit with exposure, I just knew there was trouble brewing. She continued to give conflicting advice (contradicting Longhorn, among others) and I just felt the poor guy was going to be massively confused (as if finding out your S has just given you a cardioectomy without benefit of anesthesia isn't confusing enough).

LITW, if you are reading here, I really do want to discuss this with you. I can't say that I know exactly how you feel, because I'm the BS. But I CAN tell you I know pretty much how your H feels.

Sorry..thought I'd put that out there in case she stops in here, since this is a pretty popular thread right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

BTW, I think I might try to convince you how cool fishing can be, but it may have to wait till I get out of the hospital. I go in Friday for a skin graft to close up this blankity-blank hole in my side.

And, yes, I did see that she had just posted there, and that's why I put it here...Does that work for an excuse as to why I'm lazy? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Mark

Wow!! I thought I was alone in this area. My FWH doesn't
know how much more he can take from me with my questions. We are almost 2 yrs into R.because of his 2 yr EA
He doesn't understand that I have to know why he would risk
throwing away a marriage because of someone he "has no feelings" for. Obviously he thought I would never find out.
I have to know why he refused to send a formal NC letter to her, why he opposed my telling her husband, and why he won't answer any questions that I don't already have the answer to. And he has said, "I'm sorry, can't we just forget it happened" We did MC, I did IC. He fails to realize that the only person who can fix me is him. He broke me, he can fix it. I'm just asking for words, that would be honest heart felt words and I can't get them.

He treats me like a queen, he can't do enough for me and with me. He never leaves the house without me, he goes to work of course, and always leaves and returns at the same times. I do know he is finished with her, but why keep her in his back pocket for future use? He needs to burn her bridge and make her dislike him at least. This old gal
has pursued him off and on for years under the guise of friendship and I have had it with the little jabba the hut lookalike. He has to show me he has had enough of her.

How can I get him to?

Hey 22D (hope that's an OK nickname for you.)

WELCOME to MB.....did you just step off the bus from "Lurkerville?"

I know many are just like you so I applaud your courage to register and share your heart. I am also honored that this thread hit home and drew you to post.

I am fortunate that my H only had this 'why can't you just get over it' syndrome for a very short time. He changed when I showed him the article Dr. Harley wrote entitled "Why can't we just Forgive and Forget" which is posted on this web site:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

Please read it and check in with your thoughts. Hope that helps. Reading other posts, forums, articles etc. on this website will help, too.

Again, glad you're seeking solutions and now realize that NONE OF US ARE ALONE. Keep an open mind to learning from those who have paved a positive pathway....you may not always agree, but those challenges will also help you grow if you do not get defensive and close down.

You're welcome to stick around on this thread or start one of your own. We're not glad about the circumstances that 'qualified' you as a resident of Betrayedville, but we are glad that you're doing something about it.

Ace

I see what you're saying. I got the impression that maybe she was still expecting to go on this vacation even with you being laid up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

This has been an issue for us as well. Fortunately, I have become better about bringing up things that I have a problem with (instead of letting it fester, which was my former faulty method of coping) and we are better (not perfect, but better!) at communicating. Now, H always checks with me before making plans and it works great. We have avoided so many conflicts that previously would've turned into arguments, just because we had failed to plan ahead.

It is just a matter of common courtesy it would seem. For some reason, some people just don't get that. We are trying very hard to raise our daughters with a strong sense of the Golden Rule. I think that's something that's severely lacking in parenting today...but that's another topic for another time...

Mom

QT (Quick Threadjack)

Mom, I emailed the MR. ROMANCE chapters yesterday as you asked but have not heard if you received them or not.

Please confirm ...no time to post, but can read.

Thanks,
Ace

UQT (Un-Quick-Threadjack) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ace,

How can you be threadjacking your own thread?

Mark

Just checkin' to see if anyone noticed who authored this thread.....actually I FORGOT it was mine initially! You're good, Mark and ya made me laugh out loud. But I won't be laughing if I get fired for this post. gotta run......

Ace

LOL!

Yes Ace, I got your email, it said #3 I think...and I was gonna ask, did I miss #1 and #2?? I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing...all of us have been sick, had to get on the stchick and try to clean the house yesterday/today (DH doing a daddy/daughter Indian Princess meeting at our house tonight, isn't he a great dad?).

I do have a lot of thoughts on it, but didn't have time to get them together enough to make a sensible, coherent response so I gave up temporarily...

I don't see why you can't hijack your own thread...then is it auto-hijacking?? hyuck, hyuck....at least you can only get mad at yourself then for going OT....

MOM....please check your emails for my 5 chapters I sent yesterday morning. They would be numbered 1-5.

If they did not go to you, someone in ozone land is laughing their head off. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Please email me back at **edit** and let me know.

Thanks,
Ace

Hey, JUST KEEP GOIN.....are you out there? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hoping you check in to this thread that has helped us, and we're praying that it might help you and MRS JKG too.

Whatcha thinking?

Ace

Hi Mom, Mark, and all....

Had a major setback last night but as I told our N/O (new/old) MC today, I was only "sorta sorry" it happened. 'Sorry' due to the AOs, DJs, SDs and IBs, but 'sorta' sorry because it jolted us into seeing if we had truly grown or if were still just on a honeymoon high perched to crash and burn by the first LB jostling (dishonesty).

Since it relates to this thread (see new sub title), what I learned from our N/O MC was that my high expectations could set us up for both to fail. I cannot expect that by his apologizing (and helping me heal so I can get over it and move on), that his old habits will die and go away immediately. Some are 50 year tendencies that will poke their ugly heads up at the most inopportune times. (I knew that but had forgotten it due to our honeymoon high!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Back up a bit to explain N/O MC: Nearly 22 years ago we were new to a church which provided free counseling. We'd been married over 10 years but I talked my H into getting help with our 'detachment' and he agreed b/c he had met the MC at a men's retreat and they were both college/semi-pro athletes who loved the outdoors. Eventually they became good friends but 10 years later, we moved, he quit counseling, we lost touch and began seeing another MC, who, we discovered later, was highly respected and very expensive, but not too keen on MB concepts due to Dr. Harley's lack of scientific research to support his theories. So when our last session got snowed out about the time we started embracing MB concepts, we did not reschedule in late November '06. (My H says he thinks MB is helping us more than the 2K we invested in MC pre MB!)

Through mutual acquaintances, I got re-acquainted with N/O MC who was willing to see us immediately this morning to help with our setback. He only knows about our trust issues due to health/job challenges last year, but not the A yet. I brought a copy of HNHN which he has read and agrees with, so we will schedule another appt. to get help with the A later. This is tough for my H as they have many mutual friends and he knows this revelation will blindside him almost as much as it did me. But he is a professional MC and I know we can trust his confidence....at least I hope. And he is not opposed to and even agrees with MB principles....says he's heard of MB from many client couples and will check it out soon!

Didn't want to start a new thread as it's tough to keep track of these two, so I thought I'd share that setback and MC session here since it 'sorta' fits. Even though my H is remorseful and apologetic for the impulsive cover-up that caused this setback (and my perceived violation via his apparent dishonesty), I should not declare that the 4 months of progress we've made so far was a waste of time (Our N/O MC was actually impressed with us, knowing where we had been 20+ years ago....but he does not know about the A yet!)

Another reason I'm only 'sorta sorry' this setback happened is that the kissin' and makin' up is such fun after one's honeymoon high gets jostled around by the proverbial LB earthquake.

Anyone else have similar experiences with elevated expectations that stops your spouse from 'getting over it and moving on?'

Ace

Thanks for waking me up from my sebatical.

Just layin low for while. Still here thinking on what has been said. Haven't quite figured out what more I want say just yet. There was some very thought provoking responses to my posts. So I'm just doing that right now.

So Ace, are you gonna tell us, or do we have to read it in the funny papers...what actually happened? Specifics, details and such, lol!

I think this is an issue than any couple faces when recovering through something like this. That's why places like this are so great. We too had our honeymoon period and then a few arguments which started me down my "old path of thinking" that things will just slip back into the way they were. If I didn't know that was normal and to be expected, I wouldn't have handled it as well.

The difference is now, we are handling these episodes when they do occur much better and we are learning how to react in a way that they are less frequent. H is much more open to listening to me, even when I know I'm totally exasperating him, poor guy. Sometimes it takes a while of me talking to even get to what the "real" problem is, but I just know I need to talk, and be heard. That's such a biggie for me...And I'm better about not repressing what I'm feeling, which has always been a recipe for disaster. I've learned I have to get it out, even if the process is painful, the end result is always worth it.

So yes, old habits die hard, especially with us couples who have ingrained dysfunctional ways of communicating for so many years! Things didn't go south overnight and they won't fix themselves overnight.

Complacency is such a marriage killer, imo