Hey Just Keep Goin.....don't really care if this TJ's the TRIGGER DUMPING THREAD, but I thought it is so important for you and me and Mark that we should see if some pros can help in dealing with this anger.

Ace

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And the refusal to discuss details is more than a trigger IMHO. Are you seeing an MC? That would be a major LB and it's also a DJ when you consider that she is judging that since she's moved on, you should be able to, too. What gives her the right to decide when it's time for you (the betrayed one) to be healed from the pain that SHE caused?
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There it is in one little nut shell for me. That is why I came here in the first place all thsee years later.

Never was allowed to dump anything becasuse after 3 months of moping about after d-day she was all better and didn't want anything more to do with discussions of the A. I was just "punishing her for her A".

Well here we are nearly 20 years later and I am still trying to figure this out. As a matter of fact I think may be more angry now than I was then. So just trying to vent somewhere before I expode here.

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JKG

FBH (Me) - 59 (39-40 during affair)
FWW - 59 (40 during affair)
Married - 38 years (19 years during affair)
s - 27 (8 during affair)
OM - turned 50 during affair

Dr Phil had an answer to this one to a man who had an A with his BW's sister two years earlier. The FWH just wanted his wife to "get over it" because it had been two years already.

I'll paraphrase Phil's answer.

The BS will never get over it until (and he paused for emphasis on the word UNTIL) the BS truly believes in his/her heart that the WS understands the pain the WS caused to the BS. Until that time, it's like it happened yesterday.

Your three months of "moping" was not you "punishing her for her A". It was you trying to copy with the worst betrayal you ever experienced, having your entire world knocked off center, feeling like everything you ever believed was true had just been exposed as a lie, and trying to pick yourself up from the crushing pain this caused while your FWW was accusing you of "punishing her" by having the nerve to be devastated.

It seems like a long time to keep that kind of pain simmering. Have you done any MC with your W? If she won't go, have you tried IC for yourself? You deserve to heal, whether or not your FWW is willing to help you.

Hang in there-

Ace,

Thanks for posting this. Actually I was just about ready to put something up on my own anyway.

I think I've gotten to the point of I just don't know any more what I want. I don't want to be alone but in some ways I feel I am, but truely I know I am not. Wife is great and does everything she can now to help me along. She has been absolutely wonderful throughout this episode of mine. She has come to realize now to a limited degree how terribly her A has effected me.

The problem is now I think I feel more anger than before this all came out. I used to manage it all and function on a normal level. Now it's all I can do sometimes just to keep it in check.

I thought that reading here would help me understand but I think all it has done is bring this all out to the boiling point. In some ways I feel like I am the WS instead of the BS. This whole thing has taken on a life of its own now and I'm just looking for the off button.

Just gotten too wierd for me. So yeah if anyone out there has some words of wisdom I'd most definitely like to hear them.

Actually I should have clarified the 3 months of moping about was her grieving the loss of the A. Then she was like well that's it I'm all better now let's move on and forget all about it. Stop asking me about it because you are just using it to punish me.

I think I became more frustrated and angry as time went on as reality of what had happened sunk in. But by then the window of opportunity had closed to talk about it. It was over for her.

So I did and tried to put it away. at least on the surface. But it has remained there like a bad movie rerun over and over. Guess it's like I am stuck in the Twilight Zone or something.

I now realize how I allowed myself to be bullied through the actual A but I even allowed it to continue through out the time since.

JKG,

It seems that MC or IC should help you diminish these feelings of anger whether you are the WS or BS. Unchecked anger for any reason will give control of your quality of life to whoever or whatever is causing that anger.

I may be angry that my H's OW thinks her H is fine because SHE is fine. When I spoke to him earlier this month (during our 6 months delayed exposure) he had no clue and appeared to be in shock. I sent the evidence and my H's apology letter and that was the end of that.

But was it?

I must admit that I'm still a little peeved that she thinks she's OK and he most likely has his head in the sand. But by being angry, I am actually giving her arrogance and his denial control over my life.

Ya see my point? My anger has been simmering about 20 days and I will get help if it goes much longer. After 20 years, it seems you should seek help, too, with or without your wife. With your band-aid solution, the sewage seeps out around the edges and saps your joy. It'll take time to dig down beneath the simmering surface and snuff out the source of anger.

Ace

Hey Guys,

You will never let go until your (F)WWs know how much you hurt.

My ex-wife's affair(s) were years ago. We never exchanged words as we had two other children we didn't want affected. We were divorced 12 years later in 1981. Yet, to this day, I still resent her actions.

You all have to let your wives know how they hurt you. Another poster wrote of his telling his wife off in a post titled Venom. It was that rant that got through to his FWW how much it affected him.

Hi Ronald,

Thanks for your input. Tried to find your sitch but it's been awhile since you last posted.



I think you're right that Just Keep Going's wife (and any other WS who will not provide venting safety for the betrayed spouse) might not realize the depths of the pain they have caused. And that will hinder the BS's recovery.

But anger and resentment buried for 20-25 years cannot be healthy for anyone, wayward or betrayed.

After my 3rd D-day, I unleashed anger I never knew I had. And my WH took it all....apologized appropriately and gave me massive time to vent venom to him....and he apologized again.

I sort of felt badly, until I found MB and discovered how positive it was for him to realize the depths of the pain he caused. (The clincher was when I told him about my failed suicide attempt.) He DID see, feel, taste, touch, and hear my pain.

JKG was one of the first posters to my initial plea for help rebuilding trust, (1/14/07) and again you/he helped when I inadvertantly discovered that in order to rebuild trust, I needed to expose to the OPS even though it had been 6 months of intact NC. We exposed to OPS a few weeks ago and we are on the road to recovery.

My irritation is minimal...I'm more concerned about JKG's inability to get the validation he needs to dissapate his anger after all these years.

I do not know the best way to deal with it now, but there must be a way.

Ace

My opinion would be that all this has been brought to the boiling point because it was never effectively dealt with the first time around. You've got all these years of buried resentment for the A itself and on top of that for the lack of true recovery, both to deal with. It was always there, but now it's at a point where it is demanding to be dealt with.

This can be a good thing. If your wife is being as great as you say, then you have the opportunity to make the true recovery that wasn't possible all those years ago.

Ace, how are you doing?

Great insight, Mom. JKG....is your wife truly willing to help you with this? It seems like that would be the best place to start....with her. IC? MC? MB? Keep us posted on how you're going to start dealing with this anger....don't want you explodin' around here.

Diminishing the deep-seeded anger might help alleviate those 1001 triggers, too.

***

Hey, MOM.....we're doing great...thanks for asking. My H actually mentioned the possibility of posting on MB sometime. The TRIGGER DUMP thread (that spun off to this thread) has given me a new perspective with my own triggers. For the first time my H is willing to talk matter-of-factly about how my triggers affect us....he's not changing the subject on me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ace

Oh you guys...this post is so timely, it's almost uncanny....

FWH just moved out tonight, because, after almost 10 months, he still will not see a MC with me, (which IS a huge LB and DJ), nor will he go over the Basic Concepts with me (20 min.a week is all I asked for!!!) ~ "I don't see myself going to a counselor anytime soon, so I guess I'll just pack some stuff and go stay at my parent's house".

I feel like he has been trying to tell ME how to "get over this" this whole time. I just don't get it.


I cried when I read this. Dr. Phil understands and he's never been through an affair.


This...THIS...is what I am so afraid of. FWH has a friend whose wife had an A. They divorced 12 years later, because SHE would not ever get down to the "why's" ~ why this happened, why she allowed it...and he kept it all in and stuffed it down for 12 years. She swept it all under the rug, and he allowed it ~ I cannot do that. I cannot and will not waste 12 years (or 20, like you JKG, I'm so sorry for you) ~ I just can't. I'm not that good.


Oh, JKG, I'm so glad you are here!! I mean, I'm sorry that you're here, but please at least know that you are helping some of us...ok?

I remember your thread "What not to do to recover" (or something like that, sorry if I'm not quoting it right!), and thinking how right you are! This HAS to be dealt with. The FWS MUST know the pain that their S is in ~ how huge it is, how debilitating.

RAG ~



Thank you so much for the encouragement, that we know what we are doing is right. That we're not crazy, even though our FWS's try to make us think we are.

My H still doesn't know how I hurt. He says he does, but I know he doesn't. If he did, he would not be doing what he does. He would know that we need help; that I'm not ok, that I hurt, and I hurt bad. And he'd be bending over backwards to help me through it. Just like I bent over backwards when I said I would try to make it through this and try to forgive him for his A.


Ace ~ what do you think it was that helped your H to open up to you so much? Anything in particular? And why do you think that he is so open to possibly posting on MB?

Unfortunately for me, my FWH has never liked MB. He posted a few times, but very few, and for the most part has steered clear. And now, after the latest episode (he found out that I was posting under another name, trying to get help for going into Plan B, because I am getting desperate to save/fix our M ~ and now is accusing me of not being Radically Honest), he hates MB even more.

No matter what I do, it's not right. I've been trying so hard, for almost a year now, to fix this. According to him, I just keep screwing it up. I'm sorry, but I just can't believe that, since HE'S the one that had the A, that I should be trusting his "idea" of a recovery plan. Dunno what's wrong with me, but I just can't bring myself to do that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So, he moved out tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Ace,

OK. You've brought up the fishing thing again. I guess I can't dodge it any longer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I saw the original challenge, and the next time you mentioned it, and again today on the trigger dump thread. I would have actually responded sooner except for two things: 1) Our power went out for about 7 hours today. and 2) When the power came back on, I was busy watching fishing on TV (today was the Bassmaster Classic finale, sort of the Super Bowl of Bass fishing or the Daytona 500, as the case may be)

I'm pretty much a bass fishing kind of guy, but my real love is fly-fishing. I tie flies & have considered building my own rod, since the one I really want is not made for less than about 500 bucks.

I did a series of "kid's sermons" over about a year that I called "Fishin' Lessons." I delivered them to the kid's from church at about midpoint of our church service each week after which they were sent off to their classes for the rest of the morning. Of course , since the adults were in the room, I usually had a little something for them, too. (SS teachers are devious that way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). I used examples from the world of fishing as object lessons that illustrated various biblical concepts.

I actually took up bass fishing the year I retired from stock car racing after being a crew chief for 5 years. I started as a helper on a car, became a tire man, learned fabrication and ended up running a team that ran the local asphalt tracks and a few special events around the Midwest. We raced against Mark Martin, Rusty Wallace, [censored] Trickle, Dave Marcus and a bunch of the other Wisconsin/Illinois/Missouri guys and even ran against some of the old timers of NASCAR(DW, Awesome Bill, Bobby Allison...) at special appearances in the Midwest. (ARTGO/ASA/RW&B etc) I worked on stock cars for 12 years.

I got into racing by taking my camera to the track to photograph my neighbor's brother's car....At that time, I spent 20 hours or more in my darkroom every week...

Now I have a digital SLR and process my pix in the computer, watch racing on TV and spend my free time involved in fishing in various ways.

Oh, we also have a horse; does that count as a hobby?

When I was 18 till I was 20, I did some drag racing. My last run was when I wrecked a 1969 AMX with a 572 CID big block when the motor and/or tranny exploded at about 160 MPH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> It went home on a flat bed and in several baskets and buckets.

The earliest picture of me that still exists is of me when I was 2 weeks old riding on a switch engine with my grandfather, who worked for the same railroad for 53 years. The second oldest is of me in a cowboy hat and boots and fishing beside the road while waiting for a train to clear the crossing.

In other words, I can pretty much talk cars/racing, trains, photography, horses or fishing and can hold my own on discussing the Bible.

So...

What kind of fishing is it that your H does? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mark

Ace,

I lurk every day, but rarely post.

My story is more than what I wrote, and I don't go around with resentment any more. Maybe some day I will write it all out. I feel the real victims in the whole marriage were our two children and her OC who I love and raised as my own.

In the end, she left us when the children were 18, 16, & 11. She has been married 4 or 5 times since and is now living alone (I think). After 5 years as a single parent, I married my wonderful present wife.

RAG (or do you prefer 'Ronald'),

Glad this thread drew you out of "lurkerville" (or should we call it "Lurkingville"). You could really shed some insight into dealing with anger and resentment as I'm glad to hear your life has changed for the better.

I encourage you to write it out soon and share it to inspire those of us seeking some hope. I am fortunate that God has worked a miracle in my husband or we would have a lot more issues besides these nasty triggers.

True confession: I am still a little perturbed that the OW does not get it. I think she thinks that because she only had phone sex with my H that it was not really an affair. I did not tell her H about the phone sex part when I exposed, trying to allow her to tell him and create their own triggers. Now I regret it, but I HAVE TO LET IT GO! (OK.... 2x4's welcome on that issue!)

Thanks for sharing and please stick around, RAG.

Ace

MF,

First I wanted to say how much I enjoyed your "just for fun" threads in recovery. I thought you were all healed and in the recovered category and wanting to share a diversion with those of us dragging around in the doldrums. It was great of you to create such fun in spite of your own difficult situation.

I am so sorry for your H leaving but that may be a blessing in disguise.

You asked what happened to turn my H around. Honestly, I'm not exactly sure, but I think it was a combination of my telling him to go and meaning it combined with a miracle of God. I've shared part of our history in "My MR ROMANCE makes our renewed marriage seem to good to be true" which I will try to link below. (If not, it's in the Romantic Experiences section below these infidelity forums at the bottom of the idea forums.)

I can't post from work but I can email so write me and I'll send you the missing chapters that I realized I had to pull to remain anonymous (no one knows about my H's A except for our two kids, my one vent friend pre-MB, my H's mentor/wife and our MC. Our kids do not know about the 3 D-days.)

Keep your faith on high gear and expect a miracle! And I'm glad this thread was created in a timely manner....isn't God good?

Ace

Mark,

Regarding your wife's independent behavior and aversion to recent history. Does she really know how much this hurts you? Actually, it seems really selfish on her part. But she may not realize it.

You say that she's always been this way about everything so maybe it's a quirk of her personality and not anything meant to hinder you. But it does since it involves her A and that needs to be discussed in order for YOU to move on and recover. SHE may be OK but she needs to be unselfish to make sure YOU are OK.

I apologize that I can't write more now, but it seems that your pastor/counselor should be able to emphasize that to her. It's not just the surfacy stuff, it's the deep-seeded roots that need to be pulled and pulverized.

Ace

I think an often overlooked part of what Harley writes about this is the BS being compensated. He talks that their can be no real compensation for the betrayal of infidelity, but then goes on to cite the next best thing is the WS being completely honest, and doing everything in their power to recover the M, etc.

IMHO, this concept of compensation is at the heart of a lot of these feelings. In short, the BS feels like "I got ripped off, someone needs to make this right"

I think there a couple of perspectives that make compensation difficult.

First off, if you believe that no real compensation is possible, then your only choice is to move on. Accept it. Sounds like a WS, but if a BS has a mental block saying that no compensation is possible, its on them, not on any else.

But I doubt most people on MB think its not possible.

A second issue, is I think some folks on here, fail to recognize that they have been compensated. I know for me, it is very difficult to maintain perspective at times and see what my FWS is doing to help me. I occassionally get trapped in a mode of seeing only what is not there.

A third issue, some seem to know they haven't been compensated, know that its possible, but can't for the life of themselves figure out what they want for compensation.

Finally and probably worse, some seem to keep "raising the bar" on what they need to feel compensated.

I'm certain there are cases when the WS says, just get over it, and they have no idea compensation is due. Deep down they feel like the did nothing wrong.

But I imagine, many FWS know they owe the BS compensation. But they don't know how to "pay off" the debt. They finally get frustrated and ask the BS to just forgive the debt. (Which is essentially what's being asked for when someone says just get over it.)

I think a large part of the solution for BS is to get clear on 1) do they think compensation is possible. 2) what compensation have they already recieved, if any. 3) What else do they need to feel compensated.

JKG - I wonder if you got yourself clear on those things, would item 3 be all that much? Would your FWS be willing to do it?

great post!

Ace,

The IB is the part that drives me totally nuts at times. It seems that she has NO idea what it does to me to find out on Friday afternoon that she is planning on going to her sister's house for the weekend. It usually happens the weekend I had planned to work on a project at our house and typically one that should involve both of us. It's easy for me to paint the whole living room IF somebody else is answering the phone, cooking, doing dishes etc. To try to tear the room apart, do the prep, masking, paint, cleanup, put the room back together AND cook a couple of meals, do the dishes, feed the dog, the cats and go check on the horse during the day leaves like 45 seconds unaccounted for, and those 45 seconds come in 3 15 second segments.

The problem for me is that she never even considers asking if I have anything else planned.

Just got a phone call that reinforces the point. Her friend, from out of town (40 something and divorced because her H was a serial cheater) is on vacation the week of March 12th. W says she'd like to spend some time with her friend that week. Not a big problem, but the friend plans on doing some travel as part of her vacation. She wants to visit us (no problem) but then wants W to go with her to see another friend in Wisconsin. Would normally be a non-issue. In my case, I will be having surgery on March 2nd. I will be getting home about the 9th. That means I will be likely unable to care for myself and will need at least daily dressing changes through at least the 16th, if everything goes perfectly. If there is any delay in healing at all, I may end up off work until the end of March or even early April.

So what days are the ones she has open to travel with her friend?

I just don't think she gets PORH or POJA!

Mark

Mark,

I don't think that needs to be a POJA issue. A spouse has surgery, needs care/help around house. End of story, that comes first. I don't see why that would even be up for discussion.

Good luck with the surgery, btw...

Here is how it was put to us in the MC. Like a lot of you my FWW had the "it's done and over lets move on." There is no sense in dwelling on the past. (except when I was bad) LOL.

She said it to the MC as well. The MC said you may feel that way but it isn't realistic. Your H suffered a trauma by your doing. This is like a broken bone that wasn't set right and it never heals right.

What sometimes needs to be done is the bone needs to be rebroken and set right.

There is not getting over this. There is no moving on without addressing it.

In all of his years the only ones that got over it and moved on are divorced.